A moan about 'cheap' window cleaners!

« **on:** April 14, 2005, 07:13:11 pm »

Last month I quoted for a three-bed semi at £7.50. I know many of you will think this is underpriced.

Anyway, we turned up to do it this month, cleaned the place and knocked for the money. The occupant, an elderly 'lady' said my services were no longer required. She basically said we were too expensive and her last window cleaner did them for a fiver!

I asked the obvious, 'Where is he then?' and she said she didn't care because she knew another window cleaner who'd do them for a fiver!

At this point I had to bite my lip. I mean, we discussed our terms and conditions last month and she agreed (when her windows were filthy). And now she's insinuating I'm a 'rip off' because I charge £2.50 more than she wants to pay. Why didn't she say at that point?

Had she been the same sex as me and twenty years younger my reaction would have been different; but I bade her 'good luck' and walked off.

Then, when I got home, on my answer machine, I had a polite cancellation from another lady in the same street whose price I put up last month. I charge her £12.00 for a three-bedroomed house with a large conservatory! No reason was given, we always try to do a good job, so I suspect 'five pound man' has struck again!

The only silver lining is that also on the answering machine was an 'on demand' job that works out as £50.00 an hour for two hours (hard) work.

I should have cleaned another new clean today; but gave it a miss as my gut feeling was I'd do it once or twice then get dropped for being too expensive. The customer kept on repeating 'but my last did it for five pounds' when gave her a quote for £7.50.

I mean we're all straight up about how much we charge and our frequency. It's a few customers that aren't honest. If anyone said to me, 'but some months I don't want to have them cleaned because I won't want to pay', I'd say 'sorry' and not take them on.

Has anyone any tips on vetting customers? Maybe I should apply an 'initial cleaning charge' on top of my normal monthly clean for a 'new clean'.

« **Reply #1 on:** April 14, 2005, 07:23:30 pm »

your prices a right on mate...we get the odd one who tries all that malarky...let 'em go, there will always be the odd 'chancer'. Maybe we should just turn up and do it for free!. .Even then you'd still get 'you missed a bit'....stuff 'em. There will always be people that think we are just 'servants' to be pushed around....but the nice proper jobs make it all worth while....and sometimes we even get a cup of tea. I even have customers that pay in advance, as I'm sure you do too....they are the sort of people that know your worth...and are happy to pay for the service. Don't let a couple of miserly whingers get you down...we all have them.

« **Reply #2 on:** April 14, 2005, 07:34:44 pm »

hear is my story

2 Xmas's ago, I was trying to get as much done the week B4 Xmas, as people allways want "clean windows" over xmas etc etc

Anyways, my turn around is every 6 weeks (its what a High % want on my round) i was ONE day before the 6 weeks, so this old dear said, your too early, come back tomorrow, I couldnt as i was in a different area, so she cancelled on the spot

she cleans her own now from the insides (takes her 3 hours, ive seen her do them) she cleans them all APART from 2 on the side that do not open

for the last 6 months they have been in a terrible state, a bird hit 1 of them and lost control of its bowls as it hit and it was covered, the other wasnt that bad, but a few Hits from birds

so she asks me to do them 2, i tell her my min charge is THREE QUID, BUT as they are so dirty it will be FIVE QUID, she agrees to this price

i do them, soak them with pure water, scrub them, NOTHING comes off, so i scrape them with my custom made scraper then i WFP again, still crap, so i put my MOP on the end of the pole and scrup for ages, then i Water fed again and they looks champion

THIS TOOK 20 MINS to do

i go to collect, she offers me ONE QUID and says, the last cleaner would charge me 75p to do them 2 windows, she must have forgotten IT WAS ME and the house was 8 quid

(ive since put a bit of muscle on, and my hair is longer )

i then say "we agree'd FIVE quid" she says "ive changed my mind, i will pay 1 pounds" so i turn around and say "it took me 20 mins, in which time i could have earned more doing a regular house and i am insulted that i am worth 1 poind for 20 mins work, 3 quid a hour, Keep your money BUT NEVER ASK ME TO DO THEM AGAIN" she said "oh ok then, here is 2 pounds"

i took the money and left, as i could feel a red mist coming over and a massive rage on the way

jokers are everywhere

« **Reply #3 on:** April 14, 2005, 07:45:26 pm »

know exactly what you mean...and the amount of people that try and get me to do a one off clean on the promise that they will be 'regulars'....pah...now we like to get an agreement signed and the money up front...(as far as the yearly management fee goes....then pay the cleaner for the work done)...but we still get caught out sometimes....I guess you get a second nature in the end..sometimes I can just sense it...and I leave well alone...

« **Reply #4 on:** April 14, 2005, 07:53:06 pm »

Last year an elderly lady phoned asking for a quote so a few days later we went and had a look and quoted £15.

The property was a 3 bedroomed detached house with a few very arkward to reach windows.

After cleaning the windows we had to wait 15 minutes for her to finish a phone call and then wait another 10 minutes while she did an 'inspection'. She then complains about a run on one window and and a few other made up complaints. She said she'd wiped the offending 'bits' herself and she would only pay £10.

To add insult to injury she then asked we call around in a month on a specific day and at an exact time and then promptly shut the front door in our faces.

I think it's like Duke said, a type of intuition occurs because both myself and my partner were uncertain about this lady to start with.

Needless to say we didn't go back.

« **Reply #5 on:** April 14, 2005, 07:54:48 pm »

Hi all,

We all experienced customers like that, i took over a round about 2 years ago arrived at new customers home and introduced myself , they let me crack on with the clean. When i knocked for payment he said he didnt want me too do them so he wasnt going to pay i politely told him i wasnt moving until got paid .He did pay me but by this time i was wound up once i got my money i walked over to his flower bed picked up 2 handfuls of soil and smeared it all over his windows at the front whilst telling him to walk away in a jerking motion.

Cheers Mark.

« **Reply #6 on:** April 14, 2005, 07:59:04 pm »

Quote from: Duke on April 14, 2005, 07:23:30 pm

Don't let a couple of miserly whingers get you down...we all have them.

You're right when you say that, but this is outragous...

Quote from: matt on April 14, 2005, 07:34:44 pm

i then say "we agree'd FIVE quid" she says "ive changed my mind, i will pay 1 pounds"

I would've wanted to see the 'man' of the house about that. That is if the auld witch could've kept one!

Once, in the presence of a startled looking husband, I did vent my fury towards a customer when she cancelled after the second clean because I was 'too expensive', after I'd cleaned a minging house. I'm not a bully, so wouldn't have done it unless her husband was there.

Poor lass, she didn't know I'd just stopped smoking and was suffering from the withdrawal effects!

I guess after seventeen years in the army I just can't get out of the habit of telling people off!

« **Reply #7 on:** April 14, 2005, 08:00:11 pm »

Completely agree with Duke, sometimes you just have to take it on the chin, some customers aren't worth having, and there is always another customer just around the corner.
If some new guy is going around and only charging a fiver he is going to be losing out in the end, probably won't last that long, or his work will be of really poor quality.
As for vetting customers....no idea really, just use your own judgment.

I do a couple down at our local army camp (Tosh knows where I mean) and charge them £8.00, they are as happy as Larry, a friend of one of them commented on how clean her windows were, my customers enthused about the fact she had got a window cleaner! Said why didn't she have me do hers too, the friend mmm'd and ahh'd, my customer said, 'Oh go on, it's only 8 quid!'

And there is the rub isn't it? My lovely customer thinks the £8.00 I charge is a bargain, for the same house another may think they are being ripped off $:-\$

These aren't rich people, they're ordinary squaddies, the wife works in a bar in town. Some old bird leaking money out of her ears may think nothing of spending £30 a week on fresh flowers, but put her windows up from £8.50 to £9.00 a month and she will seriously consider cancelling you as you are so expensive!!!

I often think about charging more for the first clean, but invariably just except it will take longer the first time. Should impress the customer too

Sometimes you luck out and it turns out to be a one off clean

But hey, there is always another customer just around the corner......

Ian

« **Reply #8 on:** April 14, 2005, 08:06:36 pm »

Quote from: windows_chepstow

Quote from: matt on April 14, 2005, 07:34:44 pm
i then say "we agree'd FIVE quid" she says "ive changed my mind, i will pay 1 pounds"

I would've wanted to see the 'man' of the house about that. That is if the auld witch could've kept one!

ive spoken to him B4, and had a arguement, he is in his 80's and called me a layabout, i spoke to him nicely and he now hides in the kitchen lol

« **Reply #9 on:** April 14, 2005, 08:28:13 pm »

Always, always, always, always charge between 50% and 100% extra for the first clean. Did I say always? I meant it!

Last Autumn one of my regulars sees me pull up and he says - "leave it this time mate."
Me "any particular reason?" (if there had been a death in the family, or he was having new windows that week I would have been understanding.)

Him "it might rain, it's a bit cloudy."
"OK" I say (a bit miffed, but on reflection thinking - great I've got an excuse not to ever again clean his underpriced house with bushes against the porch window, a georgian front door and a minghing cheap tacky conservatory with louvre windows included)

Today - glorious sunshine, he wants to know if I can put him back on the round.

Me (with enough better quality work) "Sorry, I'm too busy with my regular customers to take on un-reliable people who think they can pick me up and drop me when it suits them!"
Him huffily "Suit yerself!"

You see - you just need to bide your time!

« **Reply #10 on:** April 14, 2005, 08:30:41 pm »

up to a few weeks ago, I had never charged more for a first clean, but after being on the forums foe a year now, have come to conclusion, that it is a good idea.
I think that it will help to filter out some of the problem customers.
an extra £5.00 on a £10 house seems fair to me.

:

Blessings :

Graeme

« **Reply #11 on:** April 14, 2005, 08:32:02 pm »

people are wierd...I guess we all expect them to be like us.....personally, I've never met anyone like me....and thats probably true of all of you....good thing though...it allows us to make friends and enemies....and keep us diverse...I'm waffling now, tonight is a 'Cider' night....have fun guys...

« **Reply #12 on:** April 14, 2005, 08:52:07 pm »

During this evening I've been sitting here phoning around Saturdays customers and sorting out and phoning those whose windows are long overdue because of the weather. (we couldn't work yet again today - but went to quote a job for doing the windows of 57 exclusive flats in the center of Brighton after the biulding work is complete - nice)

I actually had nice complaints. The type that go 'I'd thought you'd forgotten us' or 'I been waiting for you to phone'.

Funny world.

Well ... like Duke it's now a cider evening for me. Merrydown. Yummie. My missus calls this time of night 'Ross's playtime' because I stop being the entrepeneurial genius that I am and become just another window cleaner playing on his pc.

« **Reply #13 on:** April 14, 2005, 09:12:16 pm »

If a customer tells me its too expensive i just tell them ill stop paying my 5 million liability,and my income tax and nat insurance then i can be as cheap as the next man as i wont have as many over heads...except when i trip over something in their garden and put in an expensive insurance claim....

« **Reply #14 on:** April 14, 2005, 10:01:32 pm »

this is a problem that customers do not understand.
we have all been struck with the £5 man.
then a couple of months down the line the call comes in, he has stopped coming round can you come back.
i had this a while ago, i lost a couple to a geezer that halfed my price. i was charging a fiver, and i am cheap. he put a flyer round with all houses £2.50.
he went once and then they rang me.
they where quite abrupt not even asking me if i would call they booked themself in for a clean.
i asked them would they take on a customer that messed them about. they said if they needed the money then yes.. i replied i dont and hung up

« **Reply #15 on:** April 14, 2005, 10:13:02 pm »

What I don't understand is the price difference between what they paid and what's being asked. In my above posting the lady 'downed' the price from £15 to £10. She lived in a very well kept £250 000 house. Her car was brand new that year.

Why argue over peanuts?

The above posting is about £2.50.

A lot of people won't think nothing of spending £30, £40 or £50 on an evening out but will argue over a fiver. Some spend God knows how much on food, booze and fAgs and all other types of things but argue over comparitively small sums when it comes to window cleaning.

I think it goes back to when a w/c tipped his cloth cap and said a cheery 'good morning misses ... clean yer windows' like something out of the film Half a Sixpence.

I know some people like the haggling and I don't mind that but it's the 'my old w/c charged £3' brigade for a 4 or 5 bedroomed house - they get right up my nose.

« **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2005, 10:46:14 pm »

i think we've all had experiences similar to yours, i turned up at a block of flats on weds, 1 customer on seeing my van pull up shouts from her window "NOT TODAY YOU ARE TO EARLY" no i'm not i reply it's 4 weeks since i last called, "OH NO IT'S NOT" she replies and so it goes on, in the end i clean all her neighbours windows (7 flats) except hers, i can't wait till 4 weeks time when i go back again, i can see it now "OH MATE WHY HAV'NT CLEANED MY WINDOWS?" to which i will reply...... "because "i'm 4 weeks too late...........besides i only clean on a regular 4 weekly basis...HA HA

« **Reply #17 on:** April 15, 2005, 08:04:40 am »

My thread was titled 'A moan about cheap window cleaners', but we've really been giving a tiny minority of customers a beating.

It's not really the window cleaner's fault. He's trying to make a living like the rest of us and will no doubt undergo the same learning process as many others of us have done. I remember when I first started, an experienced window cleaner warned me of the dangers of undercharging and he said 'cheap window cleaners cause me no end of problems' referring to when he gives a quote after they've disapeared.

When I meet a new window cleaner I always ask them if they know about this site. It's an oblique way of educating them not to undersell themselves.

I'm well into my third year of window cleaning and have a good customer base, but we've still plenty of room for expansion. I think it's because I've taken on so many recent new cleans that I'm finding the odd rotten apple too many.

Still, no matter how pragmatic I can be; it still doesn't want to stop me targetting a few houses with a load of eggs!

Anyway, we've got work to do. Have a good day everyone!

« **Reply #18 on:** April 15, 2005, 08:07:59 am »

I find the tray of eggs comes in handy for the KNockers / messing about types LOL

I have a lady that knocked me 10 years ago - every 2 years she asks me to give her a quote - I say you knocked me for 2 months money years back - she says i have never ever seen you before - every time .

all i say is sorry luv , to busy WITH a

Got into a heated scrap once cos a I put a guys window up by 50p - big house , Audi TT, working professional guy !!!
( so 50p insn't going to bankrupt him )
I even gave him 30 days notice of price increase, gave me he can get it done cheaper etc etc , so i told him to go and get them to do it for that money , he got me on a bad day !!

Turned out ok in the end as he came round to my way of thinking and 2 years on I havn't had any problems with him .

« **Reply #19 on:** April 15, 2005, 11:20:13 am »

Ive had same problem,put them up from £3.80 to £4.30 up 50p, came running down looking for me saying 50p is a lot ,its 13 pecent my pension only went up 3 pecent, i told him they not been up for 2 years, he said well thats still well over inflation rate,told him they were only £3.00 pound 15 years ago when i bought the round ,if you want to work it out that way i reckon you owe me another 30p so it will be £4.60,plus when it rains we miss a week who pays me. than he just walked off chuddering to himself knocking on all customers doors ,not been round yet coz of bad weather this week.tw-t

« **Reply #20 on:** April 15, 2005, 01:40:52 pm »

Has anyone got any problems with non-nationals undercutting prices? Where I live there has been a large influx of Eastern Europeans, whom are welcome I must stress, and they are mainly employed in menial jobs on the minimum wage that the locals won't do. The minimum wage is good to them so any extra is a real bonus. I haven't been undercut yet but it is a small community that I live in and I'm afraid of them putting downward pressure on prices.

« **Reply #21 on:** April 15, 2005, 04:01:00 pm »

you work in multiples of 10p ?....I work in multiples of 50p...and I dont even like to stop for under a fiver....maybe it's the area I'm in....Bumper, your too cheap mate...

« **Reply #22 on:** April 15, 2005, 04:34:27 pm »

I agree with Duke wouldn't put my prices up by anything less than 50p , know your worth theres plenty of customers out there who will pay decent price for a good, reliable, professional service.

Have a good weekend all.

Cheers Mark.

« **Reply #23 on:** April 15, 2005, 09:09:50 pm »

I went to collect the money from a customer the day after I'd cleaned the windows, the fella came to the door and refused to pay, I was told that it was his wife that had arranged for me to clean the window's and as she no longer lived there I should find her for the payment.

On another occasion I was hit with the comment that I was greedy putting my prices's up by .50p I replied by telling her that As I've been increasing my prices by .50p every year for the last three years in fact I'm actually increasing by a lower % every year,
And if that don't keep them quiet I just smile and blame the missus.

« **Reply #24 on:** April 15, 2005, 09:42:06 pm »

We do a large commercial round 2 days a week and today we lost one of our ok jobs to a real cheapie unknown window cleaner.

The job was weekly and was a Carpet Right showroom and consists of about 20 or so 9ft square paines. We did just the outsides one week and the the outside plus insides the following week etc etc.

We charged £10 for the outsides and then the following week £20 because it was the outsides and insides. The work took about 15 minutes for the outsides and the same again for the insides for 2 of us.

It was also bang in the middle of where we have a fair amount of work already.

This newbie window cleaner is charging a fiver for the outsides and £7.50 to do the insides as well on his own.

I bet he thinks he's scored but I think within a few months or maybe weeks we'll be back there doing the windows.

We may not though. If that happens I may just tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine because if they are stupid enough to think someone can hope to make any money at such a stupidly low price then what would stop them doing that again when the next undercutter comes along.

My thought are that the manager is thinking to cut costs knowing that the newbie won't last long and then use us again untill the next one comes along.

The only time I ever take work from another window cleaner is when after keeping an eye on shops etc that have dirty windows for weeks on end, I find out the w/c is charging them for weekly cleans and not doing the work. In those cases I think it's tough luck.

I would never undercut just to get the job.

« **Reply #25 on:** April 15, 2005, 10:34:19 pm »

Just got asked yesterday to do a womans property as "there were no window cleaners in the area" went there today to price it for her, small terraced house 8 windows (2 very small) priced it at £5.00 (our basic). Response, "I was only paying £3.00 before". "Sorry our minimum is £5.00" got it and dropped leaflets in estate got another 14 whilst we were there. Due to be done 2 weeks time.

« **Reply #26 on:** April 15, 2005, 11:45:19 pm »

I never put my prices up by 0.50p its always a min of £1. Mind you on most of my round the prices dont go up for years. I put the price of one house up the other day by £3.00 no-probs,(it was a large house about an hours work) but its not always like that. When I get them that say their last window cleaner did the job cheaper I simple ask where he is?

??. It tends to put the point over.

« **Reply #27 on:** April 16, 2005, 03:04:09 am »

Always charge more for the first clean!

It is sad that people lie to your face like that! Maybe hide a recorder and play it back to them; maybe it would not matter.

I would for sure charge more for first time no matter what. I always charge more each first clean.

Why frustrate yourself with feeling like a chump? I have been there done that; and I have learned. It is adding stress that you do not need.

Too bad liers make it that way, but who do they think they are saying " I will pay this amount only".

They have it backwards; you charge them; they do not offer what they feel it is worth! An agreement is an agreement!

Too bad some people suck at character and honesty.

Good luck,

and hugs,

Texas Girl

« **Reply #28 on:** April 16, 2005, 09:32:38 am »

Do you not think that even if you only charged £1 there would be someone who would think you were too dear.

Five pound man has always been around but in my experience isn't usually around for long. The damage he does often lasts longer than he does.

« **Reply #29 on:** April 16, 2005, 10:10:06 am »

hi, i've started charging 30% more for new cleans say £13 first time then next time £10 as i got p**sed off cleaning filthy windows only to be told once a month's a bit much come back every now and then on a tel call, I've found if they except the extra one off cost their be good customers, If they quibble saying there be regular loyal business then tell them you've got more than enough as it is & look in the yellow pages or some other couldn't care less line.
Lee_dewing ps. anyone got any good pricing methods I price on £20 p/hr i.e 15mins be £5,got a 5000 l/lets going out wonder if there's anyway of trying to gauge a price on phone to customer as travelling to property pricing and waiting for yes or no time consuming.

« **Reply #30 on:** April 16, 2005, 10:06:43 pm »

for 2 years i cleaned a shop in/out,had to wait for the guy to move lots of tins of paint from the window display,then he would casually take down all the posters on the windows
i informed him the price would rise from £10 to £15,for 2 reasons
no 1 it was underpriced at the beginning
2 i would have to wait around for 15 mins till he moved everything
he was not too happy ,but i gave him the option ,i would try to gat another cleaner for him who would do it for £10,his reply was " no you are reliable,i will stick with you"
then another window cleaner told me he was asking him to do it for £10,without a receipt!
i had great pleasure in informing him i would no longer be his window cleaner and the other chap he asked would not be doing it either
his face was a picture!!!!
if in the next few months he asks me back i will inform him the price is now £25

« **Reply #31 on:** April 16, 2005, 10:32:35 pm »

I used to do a little corner shop and the accomodation I think I charged about £6 it only took me about 15 minutes (this is before WFP's) one morning I went in to the shop to collect the money and the woman seemed quite upset that I was charging £6 for 15 minutes work, so I gave her the option of I would make the job last longer but would charge more. No more said, droped it in the end though started messing me around ie miss us this time ect.

Alan

« **Reply #32 on:** April 17, 2005, 08:34:48 am »

Thats the other one! Not today because..........
And then you get some elaborate excuse. If they just said they hadn't got the money it would be OK.

« **Reply #33 on:** April 28, 2005, 04:09:57 pm »

I have one customer that has been messing me about for some time. I told her that my price was based on reguler 4 weekly cleans. She promised to have them done regular in future. She was ok for 3 months then put a no windows today note in her window. I posted a note for her saying that she had been removed from my regular list, any future cleans would be based on my casual rate which is 50%higher. DON'T THINK SHE WILL BOTHER ME AGAIN.