Non slip floor advice please

« **on:** August 27, 2016, 02:31:16 pm »

Hi,

This is my first post on here. My partner and I have our own commercial cleaning business. One of our contracts is a local nursery, two buildings and lots of safety non slip flooring. When we started our contract the floors were very dirty and took some time to get clean. I used a combination of floor cleaner and a stiff brush on my steamer/vac, then rinsed and extracted. Floor looks great but I want it better. We mop the floor every day and then once a month we carry out a deep clean to the premises. I'm looking to buy a victor rotary or similar to see if I can improve the appearance. I have two questions if anyone can help. 1) which is the best chemical for cleaning this type of floor? 2) once the floor is clean, is there a sealer I can use?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Paul

« **Reply #1 on:** August 27, 2016, 02:54:48 pm »

I am no expert on hard floors ,but learning every day.

I would first look at what chemicals you are using at the moment to clean with a mop.
I don't believe a steam cleaner is ideal either, and exactly what is the make up of the safety flooring.

Geoff.

Martin or Tadgh hopefully will be able to be more specific with the information your looking for.

Geoff

« **Reply #2 on:** August 27, 2016, 03:06:59 pm »

I can't say what type of floor it is, it's a beige colour, been down some twenty plus years.

The steam cleaner was not used for long periods, it was used more for the brush head to agitate the floor and as the steamer has a detergent function and vacuum, I could then rinse and extract the dirt all in one.

For mopping the floor we use Evans EMC plus.

Cheers for the info Geoff.

« **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2016, 11:07:30 am »

A scrubber dryer machine with cylindrical brush is very effective on safety flooring. Dynax from Amtech is a good alkaline cleaner and for a more environmentally friendly product Tadgh at JSK has bio kleen which we have found to be very good. Sealer should definitely not be applied to safety flooring.

« **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2016, 08:49:10 pm »

I have just cleaned 320 sq m of vinyl flooring/safety flooring in a school. Before I have used an alkaline degreaser and a victor with a red pad. Scrubbed it in and then wet vacuumed it out - then rinsed then wet vacuumed it out. Took two of us ages to do it. I then bought a second hand Viper Fang 18c Scrubber Drier and CSUK sent me a melamine pad. Used Selden Triple scubber drier detergent in the tank and it restored the floor with one pass - cut the time by half and the result was fantasic.
You should not use a sealer as the floor is designed to give when walked on. It has little air pockets in the flooring. It's those air pockets that fill up with dirt and when mopped they are not removed because the mop just passes over the top of the dirt.
Hope that helps

« **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2016, 10:19:16 pm »

Thanks for the info guys, that's great. I just managed to buy a used rotary that I'm picking up tomorrow. I fancy a scrubber drier but as we only currently have the one nursery we do this for, it's an expense for very little use. I'll certainly look in to getting one if we have more similar floors to clean. Appreciate the info

« **Reply #6 on:** August 29, 2016, 09:07:23 am »

A scrubber drier is a rotary with a wet vac built in. Naturally a scrubber drier is quicker because you don't have to stop doing one thing to do another plus one guy can do the work of 2 people. They are even more effective if you lift the vac bar and allow the cleaner to dwell prior to agitating it again and vaccing it up again. Rechargeable battery operated scrubber driers are best fitted with either a soft to medium brush or in this case a pad. However, in the short term you will be fine with a Mono Rotary fitted with either a brush or pad depending on what works best and a wet vac.

Kev

« **Reply #7 on:** August 29, 2016, 09:53:23 am »

Cheers Kev. Some great info guys. I'm going picking the rotary up this morning, it come with black pads so once I find the size I'll get some red. Looking forward to giving it a go

« **Reply #8 on:** August 29, 2016, 10:41:46 am »

A brush would have a better effect than a pad. Melamine pads do work well on safety flooring but tend to wear out extremely fast.
And just to clarify how and why safety flooring works I copied this from the altro website
Wet contaminants on flooring create a film that prevents complete contact between a shoe and the floor, which can result in a slip or fall. A wet film only needs to be 1-2 μm thick to prevent complete contact between a shoe and the flooring: that's about one tenth the thickness of a human hair. Dry contaminants can act like millions of tiny ball bearings, which can also result in a slip or fall.
Safety flooring works by incorporating aggregates into a wear layer. If they're sufficient in number and quality, they can penetrate the wet film to provide contact with the shoe, or sit proud to prevent the ball bearing effect of dry contaminants.

Applying a seal on safety flooring smooths it out preventing it from working as it should

« **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2016, 12:15:47 pm »

I see, makes sense really. Cheers for that.

I just got back from picking my rotary up, apparently it didn't have a name make on it. Got there and found the plate. Turns out its a truvox ob45400 so I am very pleased with the purchase and for very little money. Comes with a multitude of pads but I think I'll look at getting a brush too.

« **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2016, 12:41:34 pm »

That's a 400rpm machine. Too fast!! Something more on the lines of a 175 rpm would be more appropriate

« **Reply #11 on:** August 29, 2016, 12:54:04 pm »

Oh no

Oh well it will come in handy for other jobs, didn't pay much so it's not a loss.

« **Reply #12 on:** September 08, 2016, 09:39:20 am »

Quote from: premier floorcare on August 29, 2016, 10:41:46 am

Melamine pads do work well on safety flooring but tend to wear out extremely fast.

Using on a rotary also speeds up the wear. Especially when using the cheap plain white ones. On a scrubber dryer however as the pad stays reasonably flat through operation they last far longer.

« **Reply #13 on:** September 08, 2016, 05:27:47 pm »

See I told you so - look at the picture

« **Reply #14 on:** September 08, 2016, 05:44:08 pm »

Quote from: CleaningSystemsUK on September 08, 2016, 09:39:20 am

Quote from: premier floorcare on August 29, 2016, 10:41:46 am
Melamine pads do work well on safety flooring but tend to wear out extremely fast.

Using on a rotary also speeds up the wear. Especially when using the cheap plain white ones. On a scrubber dryer however as the pad stays reasonably flat through operation they last far longer.

Jamie

No one is disputing you but they probably don't have a scrubber dryer! Furthermore even if they had one anyone who has real experience with getting scrubber dryers on and off vans and in and out of buildings or up and down different levels in buildings knows how difficult it is. Then dependant on the size of the scrubber dryer you still have the edges to do so you need something for that anyway. Surely there is no difference in wear on a decent melamine using a well balanced good quality Mono Rotary Scrubber Vs A Small Scrubber Drier is there? What was the difference in wear rate on your comparison test? Surely the scrubber dryer is a lot heavier so wear is increased isn't it or do I have it wrong???

Kev

« **Reply #15 on:** September 08, 2016, 05:53:15 pm »

Its the swig action of the mono rotary that is the problem with melamine pads.

As these machines pitch they transfer weight onto the outside edge of the pad which causes the rapid wear.

On a machine like the Orbot or a Scrubber Dryer they sit a lot flatter and don't wear as fast.

first time I used them I was amazed at the cleaning performance but dissapointed by the wear. Then I spoke to the German company that make 3Ms pads and he told me they are best used on SD's and Orbital machines which now makes sense.

« **Reply #16 on:** September 08, 2016, 07:32:16 pm »

OK I get what you are saying! I wonder if a Melamine pad would work better on the Klindex Maxi. I am going to try one and I will let you know.

Kev

« **Reply #17 on:** September 08, 2016, 08:43:51 pm »

Cheers guys. I'm keeping a look out for a Scrubber dryer but I'm just keeping in mind it will hardly be used unless we get more similar contracts. Just general cleans we have carried out to the nursery floor have made a huge difference. I'm sure the rotary I bought will come in handy at some point for a job or two. I'm still going ahead and buying a polypropylene brush so I have should it be required.

« **Reply #18 on:** September 08, 2016, 10:33:23 pm »

Quote from: Paul71 on September 08, 2016, 08:43:51 pm

Cheers guys. I'm keeping a look out for a Scrubber dryer but I'm just keeping in mind it will hardly be used unless we get more similar contracts. Just general cleans we have carried out to the nursery floor have made a huge difference. I'm sure the rotary I bought will come in handy at some point for a job or two. I'm still going ahead and buying a polypropylene brush so I have should it be required.

Paul

Scrubber driers are great as long as you have somewhere to store them and you can get them on and off your van and into the property. Alternatively if you have a long term contract and they allow you a space to keep it on site then all well and good. The best ones are the Battery Operated ones but they are also the most expensive

Kevin

« **Reply #19 on:** September 09, 2016, 08:04:45 am »

Hi Kevin,

Storage is the issue at the moment. When we started up in April we had very little equipment and chemicals, now we have such a lot that some is stored in our flat as I won't leave equipment in the van, and we store some in a garage we rent. We only have a Vauxhall combo crew cab van which we have also out grown. I think a Scrubber dryer for our current contract would probably be too much. I love the idea of having another piece of equipment as I love new toys, I just don't think it's practical at the moment. I have been watching a numatic twintec 345 on auction but I'm hesitant due to the above reasons.

« **Reply #20 on:** September 09, 2016, 10:27:03 am »

Quote from: Paul71 on September 09, 2016, 08:04:45 am

Hi Kevin,

Storage is the issue at the moment. When we started up in April we had very little equipment and chemicals, now we have such a lot that some is stored in our flat as I won't leave equipment in the van, and we store some in a garage we rent. We only have a Vauxhall combo crew cab van which we have also out grown. I think a Scrubber dryer for our current contract would probably be too much. I love the idea of having another piece of equipment as I love new toys, I just don't think it's practical at the moment. I have been watching a numatic twintec 345 on auction but I'm hesitant due to the above reasons.

The twintec cable machine weighs in at 67 KG The battery operated one is closer to 130 KG but the issue is not the weight. Scrubber driers are cumbersome and extremely difficult to carry. Given your storage situation and your van size it is not a viable option for you in my opinion. If you ever get time pop in to my unit and have a go at moving one. They won't even go up gentle slopes or ramps easily and unless the place you are working is flat they are extremely difficult to move from one area to another and especially so if there are steps or ramps between rooms they are very difficult to manoeuvre. We have a range of the smaller battery operated ones and they take three adults to load into a van they will not even go up a ramp into a van because it is too steep . Stick with a Mono Rotary for now and tolerate the additional wear on the Melamine Pads is my advice.

« **Reply #21 on:** September 09, 2016, 12:01:03 pm »

Sounds good advise. There is only me and my partner in the company so I can't picture us both attempting to get one into our van. I'll put the Scrubber dryer on hold I think until we get more contracts where a Scrubber dryer could be used and we get a bigger van. Going to see what results we get with the mono and wet vac combination.

« **Reply #22 on:** September 09, 2016, 05:28:56 pm »

Good advice from Kevin. The battery ones are a dead weight to move around and are usually kept in the same building as they are being used. The cable versions are lighter and they do come up on EBay at a reasonable price. You can get them on to a van with ramps but it's a struggle. BUT when you need to clean big areas fast it's the equivalent of a truckmount to a portable..........not for everyone but when you have one and you can use it, it's so quick!

« **Reply #23 on:** September 10, 2016, 03:33:21 pm »

Yes I think it's something to consider buying as we grow and get more contracts. And maybe a bigger van too. For now I'm happy to use the rotary

« **Reply #24 on:** September 12, 2016, 09:38:12 am »

Quote from: Kev Martin on September 08, 2016, 07:32:16 pm

OK I get what you are saying! I wonder if a Melamine pad would work better on the Klindex Maxi. I am going to try one and I will let you know.

Kev

Here is our Tomcat in action on sandstone using a melamine. They still wear quite quickly on it if you are moving the machine quickly. Again if you have a scrubber dryer like a TOMCAT or the Tennant with the oscilating deck you get extended wear as you arent pitching the machine to move it. That said they still get more m2 out of a pad on the oscillating machines than a rotary would.
https://www.facebook.com/absolutefloorcare/videos/1113758225322101/

« **Reply #25 on:** September 12, 2016, 12:00:36 pm »

Quote from: CleaningSystemsUK on September 12, 2016, 09:38:12 am

Quote from: Kev Martin on September 08, 2016, 07:32:16 pm
OK I get what you are saying! I wonder if a Melamine pad would work better on the Klindex Maxi. I am going to try one and I will let you know.

Kev

Here is our Tomcat in action on sandstone using a melamine. They still wear quite quickly on it if you are moving the machine quickly. Again if you have a scrubber dryer like a TOMCAT or the Tennant with the oscilating deck you get extended wear as you arent pitching the machine to move it. That said they still get more m2 out of a pad on the oscillating machines than a rotary would.
https://www.facebook.com/absolutefloorcare/videos/1113758225322101/

Jamie

The Klindex Maxi is an oscillating machine. Klindex are miles down the road now with oscillating machines. They took the Tomcat and put everything right that was wrong. They have developed two new oscillating machines. The Klindex Quadra and the Klindex Maxi which is round. The new machines can be used by a 4 year old they are that easy to use and keep in a straight line with virtually no vibration. Much Much better than what you tried when I took you to Klindex in Italy last year.

Kev

« **Reply #26 on:** November 01, 2016, 12:57:47 pm »

Hi

We, 4Earth Solutions, do an anti slip sealer that would go down on that floor if its similar to the one pictured, if you can get to where you want it cleaning wise.

Cheers

Andy

« **Reply #27 on:** November 01, 2016, 03:19:16 pm »

An anti slip sealer for safety flooring !!

« **Reply #28 on:** November 01, 2016, 04:44:35 pm »

yep, seen a few fail ptv tests, and 'non slip tiles' too for that matter.

« **Reply #29 on:** November 17, 2016, 06:14:58 pm »

All Miracle Premium Sealers have Anti Slip in them

« **Reply #30 on:** November 18, 2016, 09:51:35 am »

Paul,

I would like Jamie or Kev to confirm this but in my experience ther is very limited use for a 400 rpm which is why you see alot for sale at cheap prices. I suspect Kev will tell you it will have SOME use on stone used dry but realistically how useful is that to you. This machine will more than likely sit in you unit taking up valuable space, even if it doesn't owe you much wouldn't it be better to move it on and put the money towards something that will earn you money?

I won't be in the least offended if anyone disagrees with me by the way as I have a 400 rpm machine sitting doing nothing somewher so will be happy to find there is a use for it

Terry

« **Reply #31 on:** November 19, 2016, 08:15:40 am »

The 400 rpm speed is a faster "buffing machine" that is used to put a shine on the floor surface.
On vinyl flooring nowadays the polishes are much better and dry to a bright finish. If you use a slower machine you can achieve the polished finish but it takes forever.
As for the safety flooring sealer I am lost here. The floor is designed to grab the shoe and give because it has loads of tiny little holes in the floor which help in the adhesion of the floor to the footwear. If you put a sealer on top of the floor it will penetrate the floor and smooth the surface by filling up the holes. Even if the sealer has non slip qualities you are in my limieted experience with sealers on safety flooring, changing the fundamental properties of the design of the floor.
I would be interested in someone telling me that I am wrong. I would clean the floor let it dry and leave it at that. The floor should be returned to it's natural finish that way.

« **Reply #32 on:** November 19, 2016, 12:06:40 pm »

Your right on both accounts Tony 400rpm can be used to buff up a polished vinyl flooring or used to spray buff a floor as part of a maintenance programme. Safety flooring should never be sealed and is usually only enquired about when there is difficulty in keeping the floor clean. In which case it is the maintenance and cleaning procedure that is incorrect.

« **Reply #33 on:** November 19, 2016, 04:12:23 pm »

Invariably the slip coefficient is altered due to incorrect cleaning procedures usually attributed to the famous Mop & Bucket method. Usually down to over application of surfactant and a failure to rinse and extract corrrectly. Once a floor is correctly cleaned the Slip coefficient is restored. When natural stone is involved it always benefits from an impregnating / penetrating Sealer to aid future cleaning and maintenance and protect it from spills etc. Miracle add an anti Slip to all their premium sealers to boost the Slip coefficient and it works on all natural stone floors and on some linoleums as well. I have conducted dozens of tests using a pendulum to prove this but I openly admit I have never tested Karndean, Amtico or Altro so cannot comment on these at all. That said we have cleaned and sealed afterwards loads of commercial kitchen floors and toilets with Altro flooring and never had a complaint.

« **Reply #34 on:** November 21, 2016, 02:28:10 pm »

Think I will stand by my previous post and still advocate not sealing vinyl safety flooring.
That is unless anyone can show me a safety flooring manufacturer that says it's OK $:-\$

« **Reply #35 on:** November 21, 2016, 07:27:42 pm »

Quote from: premier floorcare on November 21, 2016, 02:28:10 pm

Think I will stand by my previous post and still advocate not sealing vinyl safety flooring.
That is unless anyone can show me a safety flooring manufacturer that says it's OK $:-\$

As long as your happy don't worry about it and do what works for you! There are dozens of Porcelain manufacturers that insist their tiles don't need sealing but not one of them has ever proved it!