[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

Afternoon Guys

Just back from a few days holiday.

The only times I will  strongly recommend it is for plane-ish, light-coloured wool carpets as I feel this is where it'll have most benefits. And yes I do all the other things you're mentioning and even state that if they never spill anything on it that the client will feel that it was a waste of money. (Bit like insurance which you never claim against.)

Like Shaun I do believe that it does come down to how it is applied. I once went to a carpet showroom's work area to protect a carpet and the guys who worked there were mystified by my methodical  North South East West application and brushing in. Apparently when they "applied" it this constituted a quick spray in the general direction of the carpet!

I will recommend it before I start cleaning and give them the option of making their mind up once they have seen how well the carpet has cleaned. If they are impressed with the level of clean you really don't need to "sell" the benefits as you did that before you started.

On final thought. If you don't mention it and the client calls you back a few months later and you can't remove what you would perhaps consider an "easy" stain, you could leave yourself open to the client accusing you of not giving them professional advice which would have been to apply a protector.

So mention it but if they say "no" there is no come back at a later date if you can't remove a particular stain.

Personally I do believe in it....if applied properly and regularly.

If you do believe in it then I'm sure you apply it to all your own carpets. If you don't believe in it I presume you don't apply it to your own carpets.

Roger

[Mike Osbourne]

Derek

Will you ban members from using protector in your new organisation? You seem to have very strong views on this, just wondering how you came to these views.

[derek west]

i've got a big mouth mike but i listen very carefully, from what ive picked up over my 5 minutes of being a carpet cleaner (your words)
ive come to my own conclusion about protector. right or wrong i stand by my decision and beliefs about the stuff, thats not to say i can't be swayed in the other direction in future.
as for TACCA  (all be it a pipedream) members using it, as long as its applied properly then why not, just cos i condemn it, doesn't mean i'm right.
derek

[Mike Osbourne]

'i do not and never will sell protector'

'thats not to say i can't be swayed in the other direction in future.'

This is what I call flexible thinking

Sorry Derek as you can tell I'm a bit bored ATM.

I don't think there is a black and white with protector, this is where judgement comes in, both with carpets and people. All I know is Scotchgard easily pays for my van every month for about an hours work.

[Simon Gerrard]

I thought you could only re-apply Scotchgard on the third clean for fear of over-applying it?

Simon

[derek west]

mike
on my beliefs at the moment i don't and never will, if someone convinces me other wise then that statement will change.
i don't believe in god and never will. but if i win the lottery tonight i could be swayed otherwise, providing he (who i don't believe in) gives me the ticket personally.
guess your a thatcherite mike.
the osbournes not for turning.

derek

ps.... noticed youve got it in for me lately fella, have fun.

[Mike Osbourne]

No Derek not at all. With regard to the Association I just feel it would be a mistake for you, but your a big boy and can make your own decisions.

As for protector it was the fact that you were so strongly against and wondered how come especially as you are relatively new to the CC game. But then some would say you are a Newbie unless you been at it 20 years LOL

If I'm having a dig I'm sorry, don't want you to think that mate.

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Clinton

You started this topic by saying you were going to start pushing protector more.

Then because a couple of guys say it doesn't work you say you're not going to bother.

Now you will only sell it if you're asked for it.

Make your mind up mate 

It's an opportunity to make additional money as and when the client could benefit from it.

If protector was as useless as everyone makes out, then why is it made at all ?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion whether or not they have been cleaning for 2 years or 20 years - but to say protector doesn't work full stop is a bit over the top.


Steve

[derek west]

steve
i was told by a leading expert that protector only truly works as a top up to originally protected carpets which are heat set.
in other words, if the carpet wasn't protected at the manufacturers then applying protector doesn't do diddly squat.

its what i was told and it makes sense. this is my reason for posting my views which like you said, i'm entitled to do so, all though i'm getting quite a lot of stick from mike and robert saying, i have no voice til ive been in the "profession" for, i dunno, 20 years is it bob?
derek

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Derek

Absolutley you're entitled to your opinion and I'm not digging anyone out or trying to change their point of view.

A carpet that has the protector inherent within the fibre is, if you like, permanently protected but does need "topping up"

My point is - why do Prochem, 3M etc;etc; make the bloody stuff if it doesn't work. Why are/were Guardsman so successful ?

All I'm saying is it's a bit of a sweeping statement for anyone, irrespective of their time in the trade, to say it simply doesn't work.

Even Paul Pearce was/is a scotchguard or scotchcare or guardsman approved cleaner/applicator or whatever the scheme is called.


Steve

[Mike Osbourne]

Hey Derek, I knew it all after 18months too and got a lot of stick. 

For what it's worth I think you are doing really well and have loads of energy and are a great example of what can be achieved in a relatively short time, don't take any stick too seriously it's only a forum. 

[Joe H]

The "danger" of the forums.

sometimes we dont write what we would say - it takes too long.
the person then reading miscontrues it, getting the wrong meaning.

and you cant beat face to face discussion for different reasons. The video telephone was going to be all the rage - big non event at the time, ok skype fulfills that technology somewhat but about 20 years later.

[Mark Lane-Matthews]

Most decent protectors need 24 hours to cure so its not always practical.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

Scotchguard is polytetraflouroethylene better known as Teflon, manufactured by Dupont and marketed by 3M.

PTFE is very inert and there lies the problem of application, very fewsites to bond to.

On a frying pan it will be applied hot and will adhere as it cools,likewise fibres can be coated with a hot melt approach.

We apply a solution/emulsion, cold to fibres which still have some contamination and the emulsifiers will also inhibit adhesion.

 Results are therefore limited and confidence is lowered.

I tend to sell on light carpets/upholstery as something which will help prevent catastrophic damage, red wine etc and should keep the carpet looking nice for a little longer and make it easier to clean, but in all honesty I don't sell much.

Maybe I will experiment for a month and try to sell on all jobs, except PP of course .

Cheers

Doug

[derek west]

sounds like i wasn't far off the mark.
not bad for a newbie / upstart / novice / ego tripper / 5 minute wonder.
okay i'll give you cocky

derek

[kinder clean]

Clinton

Get into the habit of offering a 'with' or 'without' protector price on each job you quote, (if fibres are suitable) you don't have to push it and just explain the benefits to those that show interest.

I always point out to those with polyprop that its not possible to apply, the fact that you were honest and didn't sell them a protector that would be useless will earn you browny points. 

P.S. You have mail

Paul

[Jim_77]

Explain this.

About a month ago, I emptied out some old unused protector into my dirty water bucket, which still had dregs of waste water and dirt etc in the bottom.  Since then, even after countless bucketfuls of hot dirty water in and out of the bucket with cleaning agents, solvents etc, the remaining little bit of water in there after I've emptied it beads up on the bottom.  The bucket is polypropylene, it can't have absorbed any of the protector so what is happening?

[mark_roberts]

Does anyone do the maintainence plan approach where you apply if for free if they pay for next years clean by direct debit or something along those lines.

Does this approach work?

Mark

[robert meldrum]

Jim Neal's post gives IMO an accurate example of what applying a carpet protector does and I've cleaned enough suites over the years to know when it has, or has not been applied, which happens quite often.

If a surface coating is applied and has adequate adhesion you have a " protective coating " which can last for 5-6 years on upholstery, depending on use and cleaning frequency.

[JandS]

What happened to Guardsman.
Can't seem to get hold of it now.
Was told it was the dogs whatsits.

John