[clinton]

Am going to start pushing the protector on the jobs i do now

Seems i have got into a habbit of never even telling the clients about it :

Anyone else pushing that side of the services we offer

cheers

[from edge2edge]

CLINTON this is not my forte either but i find offering to protect x area(usually entrance and stairs) for y amount seems to get the best return.I just think how much will it cost me and add a tenner.It takes very little time and gives me £10 beer money.regards Alan(swindon)

[markpowell]

Always offer now, i charge half the price of the clean.
Mark

[richy27]

Clinton i always offer protector have a piece of carpet to show as demo under tap.  but dont push for the sale let them make there mind up boosts your income especially on those small one room jobs you can use it as a tool so the custy feels like they are getting bit more for there minimum charge.   

 

[Jim_77]

Here we go, another can of worms opened

Protector is one of those subjects nobody can agree on  Up one end of the scale you've got some guys who price it high and try to sell it on every job, then there's those who don't even themselves believe it works so never sell it.

I think there's a happy medium.  It all centres around value for money.

I charge a decent amount for protector but I only recommend it where I think it's going to give the customer value for money.

If you clean a filthy suite in a family home where the kids and dog are going to mess it all up again within a couple of months, protector isn't really worth it.  I tell them not to spend on protector and save the money to have it cleaned more often.

If someone moves in to a house and wants the carpets cleaned up to tide them over until they get round to replacing them in the next year or two, no point there either.

Where I recommend it is on carpets & upholstery that are in good condition and the customers seem like they are the type who are quite careful.  They're not likely to plaster food & drink everywhere and deal with any spills as they happen.  These are they sort of customer who it's easy to sell it to

I don't think there's many amongst us who try to sell protector at a decent price all the time... I believe the sales gurus call this "leaving money on the table" :

[Shaun_Ashmore]

A good friend of mine in the Midlands charges £10 a room for central areas so he can offer value but the customers don't expect the earth.

A room as he says is 12ft x 12ft but I'd think only half of that would be protected so for approx 72 sq ft that's about £1.40 a yard.

Shaun

[M.Acorn]

Don`t really push it,only if they ask About it,have had custy`s with poly prop asking and have said don`t bother 
Really should try upselling it,trouble is most of my work is for the letting agy,so custy does not want them protecting,as they are not there anymore.

[Simon Gerrard]

We were are Scotchcare Services company for three years and in that time we had more complaints than we'd had in the previous 20 years. Why because no matter how carefully you market it people they will always think it is an impenetrable shield which protects their carpet against everything and when that doesn't happen, they blame you for selling them something that doesn't work, so your reputation rides on their misinterpretation of how it works, or doesn't work.

If a carpet comes clean and all of the stains are gone after cleaning, why does that carpet then need protection? That is the test that  we tell anyone who asks about it and have only applied to a handful of carpets in the last ten years, and all of them were white or off white carpets, the only ones in my opinion that actually need an extra level of protection beyond the natural stain resistance of most fibres.
You have to be very careful when selling protection and only apply it where it is needed.

Simon

[Joe H]

I agree with Simons comments.
Customers think that by having a protection it performs magic and there carpet does not require any attention. So when it starts to look bad, cause they didnt attend to spills, who gets the blame? The one who sold it.
I dont push it at all.

Last week did 200 new chairs (boring) but other then that it must be about 15 months ago since I last applied any. In fact, persuaded a older couple from doing their new suite just 3 weeks ago.

[Jim_77]

Simon, what it sounds like you're saying is that you'd rather have customers with stains on their carpet waiting for you to come and clean them out, so they have to live with them for months on end

You've hit the nail on the head though... it's how you sell it.  If you tell customers exactly what it can and can't do, there can be no complaints.

I often find it's when people have bought something that was scotchguarded from new that they have the false perception of what the protector is capable of.  Probably down to the salesman who sold them the carpet/suite :

[jasonl]

I always explain  with the analogy of putting polish on a car ,, the car will still get dirty , but stains and dirt will rmove more easily, and with that understanding and supporting paper trails about a third of customers go for it, at 50% of cleaning costs.

[Mike Osbourne]

My 'technique' has always been to ease the word scotchgard into the conversation. If they say 'my friend had that and it's rubbish' I don't bother cos even if you turn them you will regret it.

Then you get the 'Oh Scotchgard I was going to ask about that, is it any good? Then I begin to rubbish it. Then I ask them questions like how long will you keep the carpet do you think etc etc. basically you get them to convince you it's viable.

Then reluctantly you agree to apply it, but only if they buy a spotter that won't erode the protection too.

I now get referrals to apply scotchgard and repeat cleans seem to think it was a good move.

Obviously if they appear pinickety, problem types forget it.

[Simon Gerrard]

Simon, what it sounds like you're saying is that you'd rather have customers with stains on their carpet waiting for you to come and clean them out, so they have to live with them for months on end

Jim,
Not at all. Most modern carpets are stain repellent in there own right and if a customer gets a stain on it she can often wipe if off quite easily. The stains she can't get off are often the ones that Scotchgard etc can't protect against in the first place. And in that lies the problem with protectors. No matter how carefully you spell out the capability of the protector, the customer still thinks it should guard against all stain and most particularly the ones that can cause permanent staining on the carpet, the exact same ones that protectors cannot protect against.
The other problem of course is lots of carpet cleaners can't resist the lure of extra cash buy selling an easy add-on, regardless of whether the carpet actually needs it or not, and that in my view is totally unprofessional. I've even heard of guys selling protection to customers who have the stain proof carpets which is just a joke, the only thing more laughable than that is selling it to a customer with a chocolate brown carpet, how greedy is that?

We make more money out of not selling protection because everyone who asks for it is told in no uncertain terms that unless they've got a white or off white wool carpet they are wasting their money. What people like and respect you for is honesty and building a reputation based on honesty and integrity, despite the lure of a quick buck is an important factor in business building, at least that's the way I see it.

[peter maybury]

I do get a lot of work especially in the contract market where I am quoting against people who are quoting for stain-guarding polypropylene
just by being honest. stain-guard does have benefits to some people in some circumstances. Most people are grateful of your honesty in telling them that you do nt see it as a benefit in their situation. It is very easy to oversell the benefits and give the customer a feeling of being let down.

Peter.

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Likewise the above comments.

I explain that it's not bulletproof and run through what it will and won't do.

Cleaned a 4 bed house last week and she wanted protector throughout, but I advised her only to have it on the stairs, hall and breakfast room.

I always explain that the next time the carpet is cleaned it will have to be re-applied



Steve

[Simon Gerrard]

Clinton,
You've touched on the very heart of the problem. You want to push the ticket price up, but doesn't that mean that you are doing it merely for the money and not as a benefit to the customer as and where they actually need it? The trouble is there is a big risk of customers being disgruntled at the performance of the protector and then seeing you as a bit of a money grabber for having sold them something that in their eyes (rightly or wrongly) doesn't work.
When we were in Scotchcare Services we even had people ringing up saying, 'you applied Scotchagrd to our carpet and it STILL got dirty!!!! They turn their disappointment of the product on to you for having sold them it in the first place, even though their expectations of what protectors actually do and do not do couldn't have been qualified any more thoroughly.
The vast majority of carpets simply do not need protection and it then comes down to our own moral scruples as to whether or not we sell it in the right circumstances, or whether we do it merely to push up the ticket price?

Simon

[fenman]

We explain that protector is not like a plastic sheet and that dirt and stains will still get through.
BUT the dirt will take longer to accumulate and the protector will give you time to deal with spillages but if you do not deal with them they will stain.
I only push protector if asked and I know we are missing out on more money for the job but I am happy not to be a pushy salesman.

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

We explain that protector is not like a plastic sheet and that dirt and stains will still get through.
BUT the dirt will take longer to accumulate and the protector will give you time to deal with spillages but if you do not deal with them they will stain.
I only push protector if asked and I know we are missing out on more money for the job but I am happy not to be a pushy salesman.

Thats as near as damn it how I sell it - if requested


Steve

[derek west]

i do not and never will sell protector.

it doesn't really work, it wears off pretty quick anyway and most of all, people honestly believe it will stop there carpets from getting dirty, giving them the go ahead to abuse there carpets even more. its a product that makes our job easier next time we visit, so why should the customer pay, if it was that good, we'd be applying it for free so next time we cleaned, we'd do it in half the time.
i talk all my custies out of protecter. and convince them not to bother.

derek

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I protected my lounge carpet (80-20 50oz twist) when I got it and I have cleaned it twice and it cleaned very easily and my daughter 2 or 3 days after cleaning dropped a cup of coke on it and it just beaded, I guess it's in the application.

Regards running up the job ticket: what's the point of applying it of you don't make money out of it?

Shaun

[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

Afternoon Guys

Just back from a few days holiday.

The only times I will  strongly recommend it is for plane-ish, light-coloured wool carpets as I feel this is where it'll have most benefits. And yes I do all the other things you're mentioning and even state that if they never spill anything on it that the client will feel that it was a waste of money. (Bit like insurance which you never claim against.)

Like Shaun I do believe that it does come down to how it is applied. I once went to a carpet showroom's work area to protect a carpet and the guys who worked there were mystified by my methodical  North South East West application and brushing in. Apparently when they "applied" it this constituted a quick spray in the general direction of the carpet!

I will recommend it before I start cleaning and give them the option of making their mind up once they have seen how well the carpet has cleaned. If they are impressed with the level of clean you really don't need to "sell" the benefits as you did that before you started.

On final thought. If you don't mention it and the client calls you back a few months later and you can't remove what you would perhaps consider an "easy" stain, you could leave yourself open to the client accusing you of not giving them professional advice which would have been to apply a protector.

So mention it but if they say "no" there is no come back at a later date if you can't remove a particular stain.

Personally I do believe in it....if applied properly and regularly.

If you do believe in it then I'm sure you apply it to all your own carpets. If you don't believe in it I presume you don't apply it to your own carpets.

Roger

[Mike Osbourne]

Derek

Will you ban members from using protector in your new organisation? You seem to have very strong views on this, just wondering how you came to these views.

[derek west]

i've got a big mouth mike but i listen very carefully, from what ive picked up over my 5 minutes of being a carpet cleaner (your words)
ive come to my own conclusion about protector. right or wrong i stand by my decision and beliefs about the stuff, thats not to say i can't be swayed in the other direction in future.
as for TACCA  (all be it a pipedream) members using it, as long as its applied properly then why not, just cos i condemn it, doesn't mean i'm right.
derek

[Mike Osbourne]

'i do not and never will sell protector'

'thats not to say i can't be swayed in the other direction in future.'

This is what I call flexible thinking

Sorry Derek as you can tell I'm a bit bored ATM.

I don't think there is a black and white with protector, this is where judgement comes in, both with carpets and people. All I know is Scotchgard easily pays for my van every month for about an hours work.

[Simon Gerrard]

I thought you could only re-apply Scotchgard on the third clean for fear of over-applying it?

Simon

[derek west]

mike
on my beliefs at the moment i don't and never will, if someone convinces me other wise then that statement will change.
i don't believe in god and never will. but if i win the lottery tonight i could be swayed otherwise, providing he (who i don't believe in) gives me the ticket personally.
guess your a thatcherite mike.
the osbournes not for turning.

derek

ps.... noticed youve got it in for me lately fella, have fun.

[Mike Osbourne]

No Derek not at all. With regard to the Association I just feel it would be a mistake for you, but your a big boy and can make your own decisions.

As for protector it was the fact that you were so strongly against and wondered how come especially as you are relatively new to the CC game. But then some would say you are a Newbie unless you been at it 20 years LOL

If I'm having a dig I'm sorry, don't want you to think that mate.

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Clinton

You started this topic by saying you were going to start pushing protector more.

Then because a couple of guys say it doesn't work you say you're not going to bother.

Now you will only sell it if you're asked for it.

Make your mind up mate 

It's an opportunity to make additional money as and when the client could benefit from it.

If protector was as useless as everyone makes out, then why is it made at all ?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion whether or not they have been cleaning for 2 years or 20 years - but to say protector doesn't work full stop is a bit over the top.


Steve

[derek west]

steve
i was told by a leading expert that protector only truly works as a top up to originally protected carpets which are heat set.
in other words, if the carpet wasn't protected at the manufacturers then applying protector doesn't do diddly squat.

its what i was told and it makes sense. this is my reason for posting my views which like you said, i'm entitled to do so, all though i'm getting quite a lot of stick from mike and robert saying, i have no voice til ive been in the "profession" for, i dunno, 20 years is it bob?
derek

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Derek

Absolutley you're entitled to your opinion and I'm not digging anyone out or trying to change their point of view.

A carpet that has the protector inherent within the fibre is, if you like, permanently protected but does need "topping up"

My point is - why do Prochem, 3M etc;etc; make the bloody stuff if it doesn't work. Why are/were Guardsman so successful ?

All I'm saying is it's a bit of a sweeping statement for anyone, irrespective of their time in the trade, to say it simply doesn't work.

Even Paul Pearce was/is a scotchguard or scotchcare or guardsman approved cleaner/applicator or whatever the scheme is called.


Steve

[Mike Osbourne]

Hey Derek, I knew it all after 18months too and got a lot of stick. 

For what it's worth I think you are doing really well and have loads of energy and are a great example of what can be achieved in a relatively short time, don't take any stick too seriously it's only a forum. 

[Joe H]

The "danger" of the forums.

sometimes we dont write what we would say - it takes too long.
the person then reading miscontrues it, getting the wrong meaning.

and you cant beat face to face discussion for different reasons. The video telephone was going to be all the rage - big non event at the time, ok skype fulfills that technology somewhat but about 20 years later.

[Mark Lane-Matthews]

Most decent protectors need 24 hours to cure so its not always practical.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

Scotchguard is polytetraflouroethylene better known as Teflon, manufactured by Dupont and marketed by 3M.

PTFE is very inert and there lies the problem of application, very fewsites to bond to.

On a frying pan it will be applied hot and will adhere as it cools,likewise fibres can be coated with a hot melt approach.

We apply a solution/emulsion, cold to fibres which still have some contamination and the emulsifiers will also inhibit adhesion.

 Results are therefore limited and confidence is lowered.

I tend to sell on light carpets/upholstery as something which will help prevent catastrophic damage, red wine etc and should keep the carpet looking nice for a little longer and make it easier to clean, but in all honesty I don't sell much.

Maybe I will experiment for a month and try to sell on all jobs, except PP of course .

Cheers

Doug

[derek west]

sounds like i wasn't far off the mark.
not bad for a newbie / upstart / novice / ego tripper / 5 minute wonder.
okay i'll give you cocky

derek

[kinder clean]

Clinton

Get into the habit of offering a 'with' or 'without' protector price on each job you quote, (if fibres are suitable) you don't have to push it and just explain the benefits to those that show interest.

I always point out to those with polyprop that its not possible to apply, the fact that you were honest and didn't sell them a protector that would be useless will earn you browny points. 

P.S. You have mail

Paul

[Jim_77]

Explain this.

About a month ago, I emptied out some old unused protector into my dirty water bucket, which still had dregs of waste water and dirt etc in the bottom.  Since then, even after countless bucketfuls of hot dirty water in and out of the bucket with cleaning agents, solvents etc, the remaining little bit of water in there after I've emptied it beads up on the bottom.  The bucket is polypropylene, it can't have absorbed any of the protector so what is happening?

[mark_roberts]

Does anyone do the maintainence plan approach where you apply if for free if they pay for next years clean by direct debit or something along those lines.

Does this approach work?

Mark

[robert meldrum]

Jim Neal's post gives IMO an accurate example of what applying a carpet protector does and I've cleaned enough suites over the years to know when it has, or has not been applied, which happens quite often.

If a surface coating is applied and has adequate adhesion you have a " protective coating " which can last for 5-6 years on upholstery, depending on use and cleaning frequency.

[JandS]

What happened to Guardsman.
Can't seem to get hold of it now.
Was told it was the dogs whatsits.

John

[robert meldrum]

Part of the Valspar group now and still supplied to their trading group but several independent c/c are offering it as their chosen protector so it must be still be available.

[kinder clean]

Jim

A similar thing happens when I clean my van and it's always baffled me, every time I wash it, water beads up on the paintwork ! 

I've actually done some research on the interweb and found out there are 1000's of small people, to small for us to see with our eyes and while I'm not entirely sure what it is they do and how they do it the scientific name given to them is 'little beaders'

Hope this answers your question mate 

Paul