[groundhog]

Well said Captain Lard    Dave 55 seconds for a set of patio doors? I could half that time and wipe the sill!

[Pj]

Well said Captain Lard    Dave 55 seconds for a set of patio doors? I could half that time and wipe the sill!

You don't do yourselves any favours, sometimes.
That is why Dave posted what he did, you plonker!
Use your trad brain!
I doubt your claim of  27.5 seconds to do 2 patio doors, 13.75 secs per door!!  and I don't really care anyway.  I think Dave was making a different point.

love and peace
Pj

[groundhog]

Hey pj whats with the insults, I only post the truth, so don't get your knickers in a twist sonny. Chill out man and don't take things so seriously!!!

[Pj]

So you can't substatiate your claim then?

[groundhog]

What you talkin about pj

[Pj]

What you talkin about pj

Don't worry mate

I'm ok, your ok

[Moderator David@stives]

Groundhog

I timed myself at everyday working pace without rushing, If i was going for a record time i would of used 2 hands instead of one and probably changed my s technique to the "n" technique and would of shaved the time down considerably.

The point was i posted the time it takes working at a natural enjoyable chilled out pace.

I have done the 100 mph pace all day long in the past, the trouble is you just burn yourself out and fall asleep when you get home.

I would challenge anyone here to a race on a big job side by side doing trad, same as any other experienced guy .

We all fancy our chances in the speed stakes, so who will win in a trad race ?

Nobody knows

Dave

[rosskesava]

Hi Dave

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Today 2 of us have done 43 shops/pubs/offices. When the energies high and we're in 5th gear and organised, like in the morning, setting up wfp is a doddle.

By 4pm this afternoon it was easier just to put the BOAB on, get a pole if needed and do the job s-l-o-w. Rolling out the hose etc was too much effort. It was just easier to do the job with a mop and squeegie. The 100mph work speed was more like 5mph.

Trad can be mellow but for me, wfp never is. I'm always thinking about how much water is left and with wfp, somehow speed is always of the essence. Maybe that is just me.

Can't beat a lesuirely trad style done properly.

Also, ever noticed how many people watch shop windows being cleaned trad style? Especially if they are inside the shop?

ps I'm not knocking wfp in anyway at all but with trad you can do the job s-l-o-w like if you want to.

[Ian_Giles]

Ian, I remember you timing me years ago on the far left window of Herbert Lewis when I was much slower.

Similar pane, maybe bigger.
I could reach it all off a pointer, and it was about 30 seconds.

....and that was years ago...... 

Slowcoach!

That far left window is in fact smaller than the far left one on Peter Briggs, I remember timing you, but there was no way it was 30 seconds!!!

And there is very little chance of you being quicker than me on the Peter Briggs window either, you won't get remotely close to 30 seconds on it.

you think I am not that quick?

Check out below.


I've a couple of pics showing certain windows I did today, and I turned on the old stopwatch again.

This first one is an entrance to a Greggs cake shop.

Now this was cleaned as quickly as I could go, first off was the 'Turbo Terry' technique.
both panes done in 18 seconds, no detailing was required.

Second attempt was done in the normal cleaning mode of wash first and then squeegee off.

time taken, 22.55 seconds

Again, no detailing was required.

The average window cleaner would not do them this quickly, I certainly don't normally!!




This next one is the shop next door, and all done trad too.

I had a couple of goes at this because I made a few mistakes!!
But my timed runs that didn't need detailing, and included squeegeeing off the sills was....

66.87 seconds.

This one is easy enough to reach without using a pole, just a bit of a stretch for the first pass.
But I decided to add a pole into the equation....I've been working on pole techniques and have developed quite a quick method.
The time above was using this method.

Attempt 2 was without using a pole.

Time taken 70.05 seconds.

so I was marginally faster with the pole...even though a pole wasn't actually needed!!!

Another window cleaner happened by as I was atempting these timed cleans, 'Bloody hell,' he said, 'You won't get fat working at that pace!!'
Well I am fat...and I don't work at that pace! lol




final pic is a single pane of glass, the top edge of the window is approx 9ft off the ground, it is approx 5ft 8in wide, the pane itself is about 7ft 6in high.

This entire front is done by me using WFP, so I also timed myself on this pane with it.

Time taken WFP 30.67 seconds

Done trad (pole most certainly needed on this one)

The best time of 6 attempts was 29.65 seconds.

Slowest was 36 seconds and the fastest time was my second attempt! (slowest was the first though)



Now all trad attempts on all the work was done flat out hell for leather!
I'm not Terry Burrows, but I'm no slouch, but I must point out that these times were way quicker than my normal work rate, but my normal workrate with trad tools is still reasonably quick.

Squeaks claims times I could not possibly match (though I am going to have a go on the window he mentioned on Monday morning  )
And he reckons he's even faster now

I've given him the opportunity to show me and all the rest of you how quick he is, he may well make me look like a right old slowcoach!
but I don't mind, it'll be nice to have some comparisons for the identical work.

and nothing to do with WFP either!!!


Ian

[Sir Squeaky]

Ian, I'm not saying I'm particularly quick.

I just think the times you quote are slow.
I'm probably hardly any quicker than most on here, and slower than a few I'm sure.

I'm hardly likely to be that speedy with a 10" squeegee anyway.

My speed is over a whole job(or jobs) with all the other techniques and organisation that come into it.
I've never claimed to be exceptionally quick actually squeegeeing.

But I ain't slow that's for sure....

[Ian_Giles]

Ian, I'm not saying I'm particularly quick.

I just think the times you quote are slow.
I'm probably hardly any quicker than most on here, and slower than a few I'm sure.

I'm hardly likely to be that speedy with a 10" squeegee anyway.

My speed is over a whole job(or jobs) with all the other techniques and organisation that come into it.
I've never claimed to be exceptionally quick actually squeegeeing.

But I ain't slow that's for sure....

rog,
You are often banging on about how quick you are, or how much faster you are now, while I will agree that how your organise yourself on a job is vital, on an average house there will still only be 5 moves of the ladder, it isn't that that will shave off 5 minutes from the time you take to clean a house...

You think those times are slow?

I beg to differ, those times are quick, way quicker than you or most others would do in the course of your normal working day.

It is only a bit of fun Roger, seek me out Monday morning (early) and have a go yourself, I did it using a 14inch squeegee and applicator, you are wecome to use my squeegee blade (but not the swivel lock handle as that is part of my technique).

You made a comment on that other thread, the guy using the procurve pole? and reckoned you could do that window faster than him, I reckoned you wouldn't!
If you want to use your old pointer thats fine, I have it in the back of the van.

I'll bet Tosh would also be up for a similar challenge too, I think it would be interesting to compare us all...just ordinary working window cleaners....

Ian

[Terry_Burrows]

 ;Dif you went 2 handed on any of those windows shown,you would slash all those times by half,have a go ???and you would not have to go mad

[Ian_Giles]

Hi Terry,

On the first set yes, and with a little practice I can do them quicker of course.
2 handed I was several seconds faster.
I have some windows that are the perfect height and size for 2 handed practice, I've not timed myself on them yet though, but I can fly through them.

don't think I could ever get anywhere near your pace though, not even close.
Watching you in person do those competition windows is an education, incredibly fast....but then, you are the world record holder!!


Ian

[JM123]

guys would you listen to yourselves!!  23.54 secs to do this and 77.14542452secs to do that!  Honestly, what is this, qualifying for the grand prix??  WHO CARES if it takes 1.325214114 secs longer to clean a pane of glass with the thingymejigger technique than the waddeyamacalit technique??

[Pj]

Careful....you'll be locked if you go 1.0000002% off topic!


Unless, of course you are Tosh or Squeaky!  Then you can say what you like! :

I'm just glad I can still make a living cleaning windows, however I do it, I'm looking for the safest easiest way.
I used to think, the higher, you climb, the faster you are, the more you make...etc...
You can't take it with you you know!

[Ian_Giles]

Actually its quite good fun testing yourself against the clock!

Because of all the trad this WFP that, I've beed stopwatching myself all over the place comparing times.

Per window you have to go some to beat WFP with trad tools, but having said that, in terms of pure speed trad will always be quicker.
But in terms of your normal workrate, WFP is quicker.

Today I did the same test as David@St I'ves.

UPVC patio doors, not big ones but the pair were 5'8" across.

Time taken for a normal clean = 42 seconds, a bit of detailing and a wipe of the sill.

Just a normal sort of pace, but not slow.

Done at pace the normal way, ie, wet both panes briskly with applicator, then squeegee off both panes, squeegee sill, and detail where needed.

2nd time was done at pace, as fast as I could go, same method.

time taken 19 seconds.

3rd attempt was done the two handed technique, again, as quickly as I could.

Time for both panes = 13 seconds

Though I'd have had time added were I in a competition! there was some detailing needed!! (not much though)

Now for anyone that wants to stand there for an hour or two practicing they will get way quicker than that.

On this house I first did it all WFP, they only have it done once a year, I only do it because they are a commercial customer (weekly) and it is a local house so I don't mind.
So it was a pretty deep kind of clean.

forgot about the timing thing until after I had started.

But I did time myself on the downstairs rear of house.

Patio doors
back door
dining room window
2 kitchen windows

time taken to virtually do an initial clean with WFP including very thorough wash of frames and sills.

4 minutes 40 seconds.

I then re-did it trad, didn't touch the frames but did treat it as a clean of dirty windows, ie, I washed glass right up to edges, ergo, needed detailing afterwards.
Sill cleaned too.

Time taken = 4 minutes 10 seconds.

but that didn't include the frames.

Were it a monthly repeat clean I'd have lopped the best part of a minute from that time.

But WFP on a monthly repeat would only have been about 2 minutes.

Now if those windows were treated competitely then trad would have been quicker still

I know it is sad, but I'm really enjoying picking certain windows to time myself on (so long as the customer isn't watching 

you can't just 'let rip' with WFP, but with trad you can really unleash and go for it.

now do you think I have bigged up trad or WFP here?? Or have I bigged them both up??
You decide




Ian


Ian

[Sir Squeaky]

It's called "Ammo for Squeaky" Ian.

Nah, I can't be bothered until someone rams it down my throat again. :

[rosskesava]

This Thursday I'm going to time each of the days commercial jobs.

Next Thursday I'm going to reverse everything and do the trad work wfp, and the wfp work trad, where possible - there's no way I'm doing 2nd and 3rd floors trad, and time it all.

I'm curious.

[JohnL]

.
   yawn!

JohnL

[rosskesava]

yawn!

Er.... is that from the thread or from what I posted?

I did think that what goes into a sucessfull business is so much more than just cleaning the windows at speed.

I spend so much time orgnising things that even a 50% increase in speed wouldn't actually make much difference.

Now if we could decrease costs by 50% or increase prices by 50% or both - WOW.

Getting good prices for the work done is to me much more important. How that work is organised and how to fit it in with the daily work is efficiency. The time spent window cleaning is often a lesser part of the total day's time.

Still, I am curious about the trad and wfp thing. I reckon that a lot of shops we do could not be done quicker wfp. I just cannot see it. Jump out van, open the back, put belt on, grab a pole if needed, wet the mop and you are off. From stopping to being working, 20 seconds maybe? 30 at most? For a 2 minute or less job?

Still, I'm going to find out. Time and motion is always a good excercise every so often anyway.