[Ian_Giles]

I'm afraid this post is going to have more trad v WFP in it....it wasn't supposed, it is really done in response to a remark Squeaky made regarding how slow the guy in the 'procurve' video clip was in doing a large plate glass window,  http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=9544.msg190043#msg190043

!Pah!' Says Squeaky, 'I could do it faster than that!!'

Well the guy looked very casual, but if you time him, he was pretty quick.
So I thought that as I am considering getting one of these Procurve pole setups, whilst I was in town this morning doing my shops I would have an experiment to see how fast I could clean a particular pane of glass with my existing pole and squeegee.

Rog, the pane is question is the larger of the 2 panes of glass that face out into the high street on the Peter Briggs shoe shop.

Now the top of this pane is about ten feet off the ground, the pane is maybe, 7 or 8ft wide, closerto 7ft perhaps.
This is a pane of glass that done trad needs to be done with a 5ft pole, you can use an 8ft pointer on it, but you have to do it in 2 moves due to the width of the pane.

so with stopwatch at the ready, my applicator fitted to the pole, I click start and quickly wash the glass (it's a weekly clean and there were no greasy marks to remove)
Squeegee at the ready, applicator thrown on the ground, squeegee slapped and and away we go!
Brought it down as far as I needed to before finishing off with squeegee in han, and just like Turbo Terry, I finish with a wipe of the squeegee across the bottom edge.........
Stop the watch!

How long do you think??

Ok, the title of this thread gives it away.....I felt I had done it quick, but was quite shocked to see it had taken me 60 seconds to do it

So I thought I would compare it to WFP.

Up until now I would have said with absolute certainty that no way could WFP be quicker on a single pane of glass...or so I thought.

Same process, pole at the ready, start the stopwatch!

And away we go!

I don't feel I am going as fast as I did with the squeegee, and I am having to spend time getting rid of the soap residue, carrying on though and finish with a wipe across the bottom edge!

Stop the clock!!

Check time taken with one eye closed..then open both eyes wide

37 seconds

Genuinely shocked!
No way did I think that would be possible.

So I finish of the rest of the shop (3 min 40 seconds) and decide to have a couple more goes trad on that pane of glass.

I made 2 more attempts, and I was going very quickly I promise you, I assure you I am no slouch with the pole and squeegee.

Best time was 49 seconds, the other attempt was 52 seconds.

I was treating it like a race too, no wway would I want to work at that pace.

I have a very good and effective pole technique, and I think I am fast...

But not as fast as with the WFP, and with WFP it was done at normal working pace too.


This was really done by me to see what, if any difference there will be when I purchase the Procurve setup, I am now even more curious to see if it will be quicker than my normal method.

I've just had to include the WFP element I'm afraid, but it is really about speed when working trad with a pole...

Your comments I shall watch with interest...........


Ian

[AuRavelling79]

Yeah, but I bet the pole job wasn't as good as the trad.

Modified to add: I don't mean this!

[Trevor Knight]

I bet it was ! 

[sunshine windows]

Oh no it wasn't. He's behind you!!!!!!!!

I've never experienced wfp work or squeegeeing with a pole so can't really put an arguement across as to which is fastest but i would have thought that wfp would win every time. Especially if you're using the same pole to wash and squeegee with, you'd take a good 5 seconds just changing the applicator for the squeegee.

Lance

[Moderator David@stives]

I would call that a dead heat if you allow for getting the pole out connecting the hose then reeling it in i, reckon it would be a dead heat, but saying that if there were more windows i reckon the wfp may just win it.

[Jeff Brimble]

Something else to put in the equation. If your trad you need slip/slide solution  on your washer/rubbers- which attract tfr/dirt etc so next time you go trad you have more "dirt"
Not so with wfp the glass stays cleaner longer because of NO attractants.

[macc]

Even if it is a dead heat, wfp wins, less effort. 

[Ian_Giles]

Both methods turned out perfect, this one always comes up perfect with WFP.

Just never realised how much faster I was than trad, its just easier and less strain on the back. (all that bending down to ground level on big panes of glass)

But I want to get a Procurve, I've quite a few areas where it would cope perfectly with my needs...if its any good of course!

Oh no it wasn't. He's behind you!!!!!!!!

I've never experienced wfp work or squeegeeing with a pole so can't really put an arguement across as to which is fastest but i would have thought that wfp would win every time. Especially if you're using the same pole to wash and squeegee with, you'd take a good 5 seconds just changing the applicator for the squeegee.

Lance

Actually Lance, on a single pane, particularly a big one, the squeegee has the potential to be way faster, you only have to watch Turbo Terry Burrows in action, quite awesome.

I would call that a dead heat if you allow for getting the pole out connecting the hose then reeling it in i, reckon it would be a dead heat, but saying that if there were more windows i reckon the wfp may just win it.

This was a straight, lets see how fast I can just clean the pane thing'

Done trad it was always between 7 and 10 mins.
As I do a lot of shops I am up before dawn most the year, and I'm lucky where I am in that I just pull up outside the shops and get on with it..double parked all over the place!!

Something else to put in the equation. If your trad you need slip/slide solution  on your washer/rubbers- which attract tfr/dirt etc so next time you go trad you have more "dirt"
Not so with wfp the glass stays cleaner longer because of NO attractants.

for Sure Jeff, totally agree with you on that one.



Ian

[Peter Fogwill]

How long do you think??

Ok, the title of this thread gives it away.....I felt I had done it quick, but was quite shocked to see it had taken me 60 seconds to do it

So I thought I would compare it to WFP.

Up until now I would have said with absolute certainty that no way could WFP be quicker on a single pane of glass...or so I thought.

Same process, pole at the ready, start the stopwatch!

And away we go!

I don't feel I am going as fast as I did with the squeegee, and I am having to spend time getting rid of the soap residue, carrying on though and finish with a wipe across the bottom edge!

Stop the clock!!

Check time taken with one eye closed..then open both eyes wide

37 seconds

Genuinely shocked!
No way did I think that would be possible.

Ian, I have had a lot of customers tell me they use trad on large shop windows as opposed to the WFP, and I could never understand how they worked that out.  I used the WFP for every outside window.

The setup time can be just the same as setting up to clean trad, so the time on the glass should be compared to see which method is quicker.

Peter Fogwill

[geefree]

i will never be as quick as you guys,

and with the average price being 6 pound in my area, and all my customers being spread out just now,  i think i may struggle to ever earn a good living,

i keep breaking it down with pen and paper, and forecasting where i will be in , say 4 months or six months, and i would have to work 5 ten hour days a week to get 100 pound per day when its built...

god help lol..... i pray i will get faster and faster and hope the good fairy smiles down on me with good commercial work ,, :...

eventually.

Gary.

[geefree]

sorry for drifting off the subject lads 

[Ian_Giles]

Ian, I have had a lot of customers tell me they use trad on large shop windows as opposed to the WFP, and I could never understand how they worked that out.  I used the WFP for every outside window.

The setup time can be just the same as setting up to clean trad, so the time on the glass should be compared to see which method is quicker.

Peter Fogwill

Totally agree with you Peter, I have used my WFP on almost all of my shops and have found myself way quicker by a big margin.

But on a single pane of glass, up until now I would have put money on trad being quicker.

Ian

[JohnL]

I will tell you Ian - you will be a lot slower with the Procurve until you have mastered it! Getting the thing into corners and the adjusting the pole position to achieve the next stroke takes a bit of getting used to.

I remember a tool called the a*sbackwords but cant remember which trade it was used in although someone in golf called a club an a*sbackwards - the Procurve fits that to a tea the first time you try it! I would love to be a fly on the wall when you do tho!       

But I'm sure you will master it quickly and find it very usefull for a lot of situations 

JohnL

[Ian_Giles]

John,
I don't doubt yo ufor a second!

It does look  like a tool that will take same mastering, I'm on for a record week this week, so if I break my last best week I'll treat myself to it!


Ian

[JohnL]

 

[Moderator David@stives]

Ian

I have just done some timing

here goes

All done by trad

Set of patio doors  55 secs

Window with 2 panes 2' * 3'   35 secs

All included a touch of wiping , no window ledges were touched during these tests.

Dave

[Sir Squeaky]

Ian, I remember you timing me years ago on the far left window of Herbert Lewis when I was much slower.

Similar pane, maybe bigger.
I could reach it all off a pointer, and it was about 30 seconds.

....and that was years ago...... 

Slowcoach!

[Ian_Giles]

Dave,
I would agree with your timings, I'll time myself trad on some patio doors tomorrow, but on the window you described...well, you just described half the windows on my house!
And I've timed myself on those often...result?

Can't remember presicely, but very similar to your own result.

Squeaks,
 this is an easy one to sort out, find me in town on Monday morning when you get your paper.
I'll bet you will not beat my quickest time for that particular pane of glass by more than a second or two at best!!
I'm not talking WFP here either by the way...
You may think you are quick, but I think you will get a surprise.

Just bring your pole, your applicator and your squeegee....


Ian

[Sir Squeaky]

Squeaks,
 this is an easy one to sort out, find me in town on Monday morning when you get your paper.

No need Ian.

Like I said HL's window is similar or bigger, and I did that in 35 secs.

I'm no pole expert anyway, I hardly ever use it.
I'm talking about pointer work.

[captain lard]

I am getting a bit fed up of the constant wfp propoganda,here is another thread to extol its virtues,for me wfp has a couple of advantages over tradbut I am beginning to wonder why the wfp brigade feel the need to bleat on continually.Just becaus in this instance you say you can do a pane quicker wfp than trad does not convince me wfp is essential,deciding to get a wfp set up involves a lot more considration than this.I think if we are tying it all into time you need to factor in the amount of time you spend prepping and maintaining the wfp set up.