[Steve Mac]

 I've been debating this with my pops, who's also a man of the cloth, so all opinions are welcome. Once you've bladed a window, who here actually wipes down the edge of the window?

Now i know this might sound a little mundane, but i've worked with blokes who don't bother, and who don't seem to get any complaints. I've also worked with others who are really careful not to leave a trace of water down the sides.

 I"ve tested this out, and obviously using dirty water leaves a mark, but it's veeeeery small. Is it worth it? Although it may only take a few seconds to do, add it up over a whole job, and it can make a big difference to your speed.

This is where everyone laughs at the bloke who doesn't wipe - isn't it?

[ronaldo]

Steve, when i clean using the traditional method i always wipe the edges and the frames and then the sill. never had any complaints using this method may take a bit longer but the results are worth it.

[Sir Squeaky]

Very shoddy not wiping edges.

You can minimise it by not washing to the edges.
Also, do a few windows nearby(if you're not up a ladder) and then wipe them all when the water has dried.
It'll shine up fine, and you're not "mopping it up" and getting your dry scrim wet.

Rog.

[matt]

i ALWAYS detail the edges, it takes seconds and just gives the job a nice finish

[H h20]

In all the 18 years i`ve always detailed edges but must admit it gets on your nerves,and always used scrim,but i have only just got myself a couple of extra large microfibre cloths and what a MASSIVE difference it makes,it wipes up more water without leaving it feeling too wet it does`nt leave those irritating hairs that scrim does and shifts grease and dirt with just 1 wipe,why o why  have`nt i used it before now,i won`t be buying anymore scrim from now on.Gaz

[Andrew McCann]

I've been debating this with my pops, who's also a man of the cloth, so all opinions are welcome. Once you've bladed a window, who here actually wipes down the edge of the window?

Now i know this might sound a little mundane, but i've worked with blokes who don't bother, and who don't seem to get any complaints. I've also worked with others who are really careful not to leave a trace of water down the sides.

 I"ve tested this out, and obviously using dirty water leaves a mark, but it's veeeeery small. Is it worth it? Although it may only take a few seconds to do, add it up over a whole job, and it can make a big difference to your speed.

This is where everyone laughs at the bloke who doesn't wipe - isn't it?

Yup we laugh allll the time about this. The WCer who doesn't detail might not get complaints. BUT...  when the customers get a doorknock asking if they want a good window cleaning service you would be amazed how many of them ask " Do you do the edges and frames? AND in general they are prepared to pay more to get the job done thoroughly.

Andrew

[windolene]

Hi,

Don't recall having had to detail the edges much, just a very few times I notice the odd bit that I have missed. It is generally the top left hand corner. As for a line down the edges isn't it just millimetres?. One of the lessons I taught my son is to always watch the squeegee as your cleaning the window as not to miss bits. As for new customers "saying do I clean the edges" is a new one on me. some have said tongue in cheek "don't forget the corners" & have had a few asking does that include the frames.

Kevin WINDOLENE.

[Chris Cottrell]

I can honestly say i always detail the edges, its become so second nature that sometimes I think I do it even when theres nothing to clean up, almost like i'm in auto pilot

Chris

[Steve Mac]

 Well, thanks for that chaps. It's good to see that you all choose to make a perfect job over a quick one.

 I personally have been doing everything - the frames, sills, edges etc for the last year or so. I tried what i call the "glasweigan method" of just doing the glass and ignoring everything else.

A friend that i worked with for a day in the big smoke employed this skillful technique - it seems to be the norm there. Plus he was earning up to 20 quid for 15 mins work, so i had to try it for a while. No complaints, but i just felt like i was cheating the customer by not giving them the best job i could do.

You need to take pride in your work in this trade.

[Paul Coleman]

Well, thanks for that chaps. It's good to see that you all choose to make a perfect job over a quick one.

 I personally have been doing everything - the frames, sills, edges etc for the last year or so. I tried what i call the "glasweigan method" of just doing the glass and ignoring everything else.

A friend that i worked with for a day in the big smoke employed this skillful technique - it seems to be the norm there. Plus he was earning up to 20 quid for 15 mins work, so i had to try it for a while. No complaints, but i just felt like i was cheating the customer by not giving them the best job i could do.

You need to take pride in your work in this trade.

If there's anything there, I detail it.  If there isn't, I don't.  I do try to avoid needing to do it but that isn't always possible.  Bottom edge seems to need detailing more than others usually but even that can be avoided a fair bit of the time.  To avoid the need to detail (where possible) I do tend to soap up and not take it all the way to the edge as the squeegee will do that anyway.  I wondered if I was cheating the customer too at first.  One day, when I was asked to clean inside as well, I did an experiment.  On the outside, some windows I detailed, some I didn't.  When I came to do the inside, I really could not see the difference (and I had my reading specs on). A lot depends on how short you cut the rubber in relation to the channel.  Dog earing the channel helps a little bit too.  Also, I find that to work this way, I need to change the rubber a bit more often. I'm not a slapdash window cleaner and I do a reasonable job.  I always wipe the sills down and any detergent that may occasionally stray onto the frames (though a full frame clean is an extra, chargeable job).
Please note that the above ONLY applies to maintenance cleans - not first ones.

[Steve Mac]

 That sounds like you've struck a fair balance there. I tried not using my applicator right to the edge, but i just found it a bit slower. It did make a big difference tho. I suppose you get quicker over time, just like anything else.

The reason i started this topic is cos i did a farm house yesterday, and decided to really got to town on it and clean EVERYTHING, wether it needed it or not. I made a damn good job, but it took me far too long to make my target hourly rate. I'm just looking for a more efficient way of working that'll be as quick as poss while still making as good a job.
Thanks shiner, i might try that method again for a day, see how it goes.

[Paul Coleman]

That sounds like you've struck a fair balance there. I tried not using my applicator right to the edge, but i just found it a bit slower. It did make a big difference tho. I suppose you get quicker over time, just like anything else.

The reason i started this topic is cos i did a farm house yesterday, and decided to really got to town on it and clean EVERYTHING, wether it needed it or not. I made a d**n good job, but it took me far too long to make my target hourly rate. I'm just looking for a more efficient way of working that'll be as quick as poss while still making as good a job.
Thanks shiner, i might try that method again for a day, see how it goes.

Just to add a bit to what I posted.  When I used to soap up all the way to the edges, I could start the cutting movement at the edge of the glass.  Now that I stay away from the very edge, in order to get sufficient "slip", I need to start further into the pane and work it outwards a bit with the squeegee.  Sounds awkward but easier with practice.  Also, when I started working this way, I found it helped a lot by dropping down to a shorter channel length.

[gaza]

MACC: If I dont wipe I end up with stains,so I then have to take them off,turn them inside out,can wear them for another week,then take them off, throw them against the wall if they dont stick start the process again
just stopped wiping down except the sills,used 2 scrims today only only doing the edges and they werent that wet.

 gaza

[Easyclean Windows]

Clean it all glass edges sills frames......you could be breaking the trades description act  ( a window cleaner cleans a window....a window is a peice of glass a frame and a sill watch out........

[gaza]

IM WFP + TRAD SO I DO WHAT I WANT IF THEY WANT THE FRAMES DONE THEN THEY PAY FOR IT,IM THE BOSSMAN THEY ARE THE CUSTOMER AND WERE ALWAYS RIGHT.

 GAZA

[KJG]

I've always been very particular with my squeegee technique. I only watch the leading edge of the blade, which is 'dog eared' with a 45 degree cut with the rubber cut exactly to it. Bar windows with those annoying 'flat on the glass' seals, I don't leave any edge water/soap - 20 odd years of practice helps a bit too.

[Ian_Giles]

On regular repeat cleans I rarely need to detail the edges very much, if it's required then I do so.
If I am working trad, then unless the frames are in a state I don't do them, never have.
Glass and sills only.
If customers wanted the frames done then they got done, but I charged extra for it.

Sometimes I pre-detail prior to squeegeeing off, particularly if the windows are pretty grimy.
I think it depends on your technique and the type of windows you are working on.

Ian

[Londoner]

I couldn't walk away without detailing but I take the point that a lot of people don't. I have watched them in the past and they do seem to get away with it.

[Spursboy1972]

I also detail every time. I have found that dog earing and cutting the rubber closer to the blade makes a huge difference to the amount of detailing. I also always wipe the sills. However frames I do charge for. i always explain this to new customers and they are happy with this. Lots of w/c's I come across do none of it just the glass. To me it's all about presentation. I even wipe their front door step! I also detail on my Commercial work. I have to treat all the same.

[windows_chepstow]

Clean it all glass edges sills frames......you could be breaking the trades description act  ( a window cleaner cleans a window....a window is a peice of glass a frame and a sill watch out........

Actually ( ) according to the Oxford English Dictionary:

Window.  Noun. an opening in a wall or roof, fitted with glass in a frame to let in light or air and allow people to see out.

Sills aren't mentioned.

Neither are doors, but we generally clean them too.

When doing trad, I only clean frames if asked too and charge extra.

[Steve Mac]

I only watch the leading edge of the blade, which is 'dog eared' with a 45 degree cut with the rubber cut exactly to it.

Can anyone expand a bit on this, cos 'dog earing' from in at the bottom to out at the top helps on some, while cutting from out at the bottom to in at top works on other frames.

As Cadbury once asked - How do you do yours??

[master cleaner]

i never detail unless it is needed which i find is not that often , i charge an average of £1 for sills. frames are obviously a lot more. i have always done this and have had no complaints after 11 years

gary

[Steve Mac]

 Just found out on another thread what you mean about dogearing.

Makes sense, i'm off to get some pliers.

[sunshine windows]

I used to work with a couple of lads who never detailed anything. They used to do a fairly good job but never did anything more than slap some water on the windows and squeegee it off. Any marks other than noticable blobs of bird poo just got left.

If i was a paying customer i certainly wouldn't want any visible marks like spider poo and insect guts left on my windows after supposedly being cleaned, and this was reflected in the amount of complaints we used to get.

Hence the reason that as soon as i strarted up on my own it was one price fits all. What i mean by this is i clean absolutely everything in the price i quote for the windows and inform the customer of this when i'm quoting. Get rid of all cobwebs and spiders in corners of frames and glass, wipe all the framework over (not necessarily to a gleaming standard but cleaned), then clean windows and re-do if any marks are still visible, detail edges and finally wipe over sill and framework of excess water.

I do this for absolutely every customer and charge accordingly. If customer's aren't happy with the price then they don't get cleaned but i can assure you, i've not had a single complaint yet and some very nice thank you notes and letters returned with cheques in the post. This to me makes the job well worth doing properly.

If i were to drop my standards for certain customers that just wanted their windows cleaned and nothing else, it would turn into an organisational nightmare. So for me it's high quality cleaning for everyone or nothing at all.

Bit of an essay but i'm feeling chatty today 

Sunshine

[Steve Mac]

Your not waffling at all mate - very sound way of doing things. My girlfriend and me were chatting bout this last night. Until very recently i had been rushing alot of my jobs. I hate having to do that, but at the price i'm doing these at, it's sort of nessecary. I don't leave a mess when i do this, but i can't say it's the best job.
 Over the last few weeks tho, i've spent alot of time on this forum, and started making a decent job, however long it takes. Pretty soon i'll be putting prices up to match, and like you're doing at the minute, I'll explain what's all included in a price when taking on new work.
Then everyone's happy!

[JohnL]

Glad to hear others are like me and do a full job. But I am only in the first few months of WC after being asked by people who have lost their  WCer ( I am a painter & decorator ) As I have said previously I am not going out to take work from others and will not do so and only doing WCleaning where these people have lost there WCer for whatever reason. I only have about 20 customers but these are relatively large houses etc spread over a large area and take around three days to do. For instance one is a holiday complex with 20 chalets plus a 52 window house which takes a while - I call that 1 customer    My price is approximately 25% higher than the last cleaners but I clean everything around the window, the frames and sills the cobwebs the lot and in every instance the customer is very happy and says they have never had the windows look so clean so I think a thorough job is worth it - so far that is! 

Re edges, I find the plastic double - glazed windows with the black rubber seal which sits out from the window is the worst for detailing. I always have to edge these but where the rubber seal sits flush I never have to edge nor do I on wooden windows except where the paint is cracked and falling off.

I have said before that a good relationship with the customer and setting the right price is vital but at the end of the day those dont count for anything if the job looks shoddy because a more competitive WCer will jump in if the customer is not happy with result.

Just imho - and I am feeling chatty as well this afternoon, but not for long because I am going out in the sun for an hour or two   

JohnL

[ducky]

Dog/earing, get a pair of pliers and bend the edge of your channel, towards you, then ,before you put your blade into the channel, cut the edges like so, \_______/  you will have no detailing to do afterwords.

                         Cheers 

[mattstanley]

Dog/earing, get a pair of pliers and bend the edge of your channel, towards you, then ,before you put your blade into the channel, cut the edges like so, \_______/  you will have no detailing to do afterwords.

                         Cheers 

Ducky,
Would the longer edge of the rubber above be the edge nearest the handle, or would the rubber taper out at each end?
Does that make sense?
Matt.

[ducky]

Taper out at each end. \|________|/ from the end of the channel. Inagine the line up is the end of the channel, cut your blade as in diagram. ducky. 
                                             

[mattstanley]

Cheers, I'll try that tomorrow.

[Mike George]

I ue the same approach as Sunshine and always clean glass, frames and sills. A couple of people have asked for a price for just the glass but I say it's the same.

I never try to 'steal' customers from other window cleaners, but last week I picked up 10 new customers in three streets from 200 flyers because I do the frames, and at least 3 of those were switching from other cleaners. In one case I charged three times what the customer was paying before, but the previous window cleaner refused to clean frames.

[carl stanton]

me too tosh frames extra, unless it is a well paid job anyway!

[Steve Mac]

 I tried a few things i've read on this forum today. Dog-eared my channel, did'nt soap right to the edge, trimmed the rubber to the right size.It took me a few hours to get used to being careful with my applicator, but once i was used to it i was flying along. The edges only needed detailing once in a while, and if i was the customer, i would have been very pleased with the job i was doing.

If i hadn't decided to look back through old posts last week while it rained, then i'm fairly sure i would have earned a good tenner less today, at least.

[Steve Mac]

 Actually, the truth is, i'd made 80 quid by lunch, so decided to knock off and come home to do some pottering about..

 That's why i'm self-employed tho.

[jeff1]

we all have different methods and they work for us,

but the only thing we all have in common, is that if we do a good job for our customers, they tell very few people, but if we do a bad job for our customers, they tell everyone.

morrell is!! do a good job