I give up

« **on:** January 21, 2009, 03:44:49 pm »

Just been to quote on a commercial job approx 260sqm and 2 sets of stairs , its 2 offices ground floor and first floor. try to get as much imformation as possible from the customer she told me she as already been quoted less than £200.thats from a local firm with a truckmount

John

« **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2009, 04:17:32 pm »

John,

If somone wants the job that badly to do it so cheap i say leave it to em. They must be struggling for work to do it that cheap. I know times are hard at the moment but if you start working for that low price it'll be hard to up your prices at a later date.

« **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2009, 05:13:01 pm »

John,
Sell it on quality and service - some you win some you lose, maybe she was telling you this information to try and get a low price !!

Paul

« **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2009, 05:30:41 pm »

Put your price in and then give them a call later to see if you are successful. Some negotiators will artificially lower a quote just to see if you will respond, I had that with one customer as he asked me to sharpen my pencil

sent him in his quote at my price and still got it.

Shaun

« **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2009, 05:48:26 pm »

John

As the above posts say some you get,i have had a run on price shoppers this week from the web sites and wont drop the prices.

Quoted on a large appartment block communial area today and got the go ahead to do it next week and think i was up against some one who has a large cleaning set up here near me

« **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2009, 06:25:33 pm »

John

I don't know if my story will enthuse you to keep persevering with your owm business plan, or dishearten you.

Last week I quoted for a nursing home. Not worked for them before, approx 150sqM. Straight forward, 3 bedrooms, no stairs the rest open spaces. They normally clean themselves so there's no obnoxious smells or stains apparent. To be honest, I didn't really fancy it. I'd have to de-mount the Scorp as it's a rabbit warren of a job over 3 floors, and LM isn't suitable (yet!). So I loaded my price from £3.00 commercial rate to £4.20. I got the job

It'll be long day for me and my daughter.

Safe and happy cleaning

Ken

« **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2009, 06:56:28 pm »

Hi Guys

It is always really frustrating when you come up against someone who wants to work for too lttle BUT CC is riddled with people who do not understand how much one needs to take to make a decent living.

Too often people equate takings with earnings.

In this I include making enough to invest in better equipment and take the next step up.

I invested in a TM last year and like many before , wished I'd done so earlier.

Cheers

Doug

« **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2009, 07:05:17 pm »

I'd be more worried about how it will effect what you do now.

I mentally say NEXT with this sort of thing and it's gone, finished with. The only positive thing you can do is perhaps consider how in the same circumstance you might do something different.

Still put them on your database, still send out to them.

« **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2009, 07:12:42 pm »

at least the phone is ringing, theres a plus point, at that price i'd of laughed rather than got upset about it. wished her good luck and pointed out the nearest welly shop, either that or i would of asked if i can pop back in 2 months time to see if all the soil has wicked back up, then offered her a proper job.
but then, i am a cocky sod.
win some lose some john. chin up fella.
derek

« **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2009, 07:25:47 pm »

If its as the lady told John, and apparantly she told John who the price was from and they do have a TM, then I find it incredible that someone can do it for £200.
Yes they can live on this, but to invest for the future as Doug says..... well it beyond comprehension.

« **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2009, 07:47:38 pm »

Just had a thought. How do you know he's going to use a TM to clean it?

You know what custies are like they just home in on the price. Then you say HWE etc etc and they go yeah, yeah yeah. So he may just be padding it in no time and collecting the cash.

« **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2009, 08:59:06 pm »

Hi

Just because someone does it cheap, doesn't automatically mean they will do a bad job, he may do a top notch professional job?

Regards

Martin

« **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2009, 09:52:15 pm »

Realistically how long would it take to do that sort of area with a TM, probably 2-3 hours if it's a reasonably open space.

« **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2009, 10:05:38 pm »

John

This job sounds like a job for you dry fusion mate and am sure it would make a good job whatever the non l m leaning brigade say

« **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2009, 10:17:58 pm »

Quote from: Ian Rochester - Lionheart on January 21, 2009, 09:52:15 pm

Realistically how long would it take to do that sort of area with a TM, probably 2-3 hours if it's a reasonably open space.

Don't think I could wand 260 sqm in 2 or 3 hours

John

« **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2009, 10:20:53 pm »

I was a bit gutted to loose a job the other day to an under cutting C/C in my area.... But on 4 occassions I have been told by the custy that my quote is a fair bit "more" than his... But I've stuck to my guns and secured 3 of the jobs.

Then I thought about it... If I was being told I was a fair bit "cheaper", alarm bells would start ringing, I'd be even more gutted.

Stick to your guns, think about the long term goals, if you get through this economic nose dive, you'll get through anything!

As Derek said before, "Chin up fella!"

« **Reply #16 on:** January 21, 2009, 10:26:32 pm »

Quote from: clinton neylan on January 21, 2009, 10:05:38 pm

John

This job sounds like a job for you dry fusion mate and am sure it would make a good job whatever the non l m leaning brigade say

Clinton Hi long do you reckon to bonnet 260sqm doing a half decent job pre vaccing etc
John

« **Reply #17 on:** January 21, 2009, 10:32:10 pm »

Hi john

The pre vac will be well worth it and gets all the dry soil out prior to cleaning prob get it done in a morning mate you could also do the stairs with one of your pads folded up.

« **Reply #18 on:** January 21, 2009, 10:35:01 pm »

John

I would help you set up if you have not used it yet mate if you needed

« **Reply #19 on:** January 21, 2009, 10:44:29 pm »

Quote from: clinton neylan on January 21, 2009, 10:35:01 pm

John

I would help you set up if you have not used it yet mate if you needed

Cheers Clinton I've already submitted my Quote don.t think I will get it

John

« **Reply #20 on:** January 21, 2009, 10:48:18 pm »

Quote from: Colin finney on January 21, 2009, 10:39:48 pm

Isn't earning £200 better than sitting at home doing nothing. I mean how much would that job cost you to do £20 tops so you could clear £180 for a days work, is there something wrong with that? If your run of your feet you dont need to do jobs like that fair enough, but if your building your business and need the sale you would be daft imo to refuse it.
Col

Point taken Colin you might be right where do you draw the line thou . how low do you go

John

« **Reply #21 on:** January 21, 2009, 10:52:48 pm »

Quote from: Colin finney on January 21, 2009, 10:39:48 pm

Isn't earning £200 better than sitting at home doing nothing. I mean how much would that job cost you to do £20 tops so you could clear £180 for a days work, is there something wrong with that? If your run of your feet you dont need to do jobs like that fair enough, but if your building your business and need the sale you would be daft imo to refuse it.
Col

That job would take a good days work at least for me, I'd have to get a child minder in, a bucket boy and a KFC bargain bucket to feed us all at the end of the day..... I wouldn't even break even and to be honest, I'd take as many short cuts as I could which would inevitably produce a pretty crap job!

This could be detrimental to an up and coming business!

Col

« **Reply #22 on:** January 21, 2009, 10:54:32 pm »

John

No probs mate and am sure you could offer your d fusion on most of these offices

Its a great selling point and you could go in a bit cheaper for a one man band.

Think the other t mount might be two or three guys doing it

« **Reply #23 on:** January 21, 2009, 10:58:22 pm »

Colin,
Dont you think you should fill your profile in

Not everybody wants to work for Nothing, by the time you take your expenses out youve you've worked hard for very little and but charging such low rates you spoil it for everybody.

John
I would find spend your time looking for customers that will pay your going rate and not worry to much about this one, if they going in cheap they must be desperate, not have any sales skills and probably do a below average job and hopefully be bust in six months time, Who was you up against ??

Paul

« **Reply #24 on:** January 21, 2009, 11:01:07 pm »

Clinton the offices belong to a busy transport company and where pretty hammered in places , not sure if bonneting it would get a decent result , In saying that it would of been a good opportunity to find out Like Derek said chin up eh

John

« **Reply #25 on:** January 21, 2009, 11:05:48 pm »

John

Yes would have been a good chance to see what it does and it can mate

Just would have given you a feel of the d fusion and what sort of job it could do and least if it didnt you had your t mount to use.

« **Reply #26 on:** January 21, 2009, 11:06:32 pm »

Colin of course they would jump at the chance. I would, but it's not £200 in your pocket is it?

I would do what Paul just said. Forget this job, find a better client who will pay half decent, you can do a good job and hopefully they will get you back time and time again.

« **Reply #27 on:** January 21, 2009, 11:09:10 pm »

Colin,
Were is the return on your 30 - 40 - 50k investment

How do you work out £20.00 costs ?? Tax, insurance, surveyed the job, waited 30 days for your money, invoiced, training, fuel, advertising at say 7K per year , sick pay, holiday pay.

Your average teacher earns min 25k per year 3 months holidays with an index linked pension, and doesnt have Bank and accountant to pay at the end of the year. I bet your profit margin at year end is crap.

Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity

« **Reply #28 on:** January 21, 2009, 11:26:33 pm »

£200 is very low what are they expecting for that? If they do an excellent job for it then the cleaning industry IS in recession but I personally think NOT!

If you hang on to every quote you get and wonder why you didn't get it then you will do yourself in! start looking for other customers, I forget the ones I don't get as it is their loss and I just keep on moving.

Shaun

« **Reply #29 on:** January 21, 2009, 11:39:13 pm »

John,
Words of a wise man (Shaun) If you listen to him you will be sucessfull.

Just ignore what colin has said to you he hasnt even got the decency to fill his profile in, he is a carpet cleaner not a businessman.

Regards

« **Reply #30 on:** January 22, 2009, 12:11:22 am »

i must have my pricing all wrong..............i get every job i quote in person

but surely £200 even if he took 4 hrs cant be bad £50 ph.......less expenses.........about the same the last time i checked solicitors charge £50-75ph........they also have expenses(rent/bills/secretary/etc) but they manage to make a living at it.
better £50 ph than £0 sitting at home doing nothing, at least the van is working advertising your business to potential customers

as for recession what recession......january has been getting busier!

« **Reply #31 on:** January 22, 2009, 12:13:38 am »

Would take me a fair bit longer than that mate.

« **Reply #32 on:** January 22, 2009, 12:29:33 am »

take me a lot longer than 4 hours too.
derek

« **Reply #33 on:** January 22, 2009, 12:35:56 am »

how long then guys??........

« **Reply #34 on:** January 22, 2009, 01:44:47 am »

Shaun's comments do make sense, but so does collin's. If the recession is as bad as they say in England
it's better to make some turn over than none, and 260m2 should only take 2-3 hours. The cleaners should of already vacuumed,so there's 1 hour saved.But generally speaking the job should be worth 390.00. As shaun says put your quote in and see what happens.Good luck.

« **Reply #35 on:** January 22, 2009, 08:58:33 am »

On site cleaners will probably be vaccing with a Henry (cylinder) which is fine but really does need a pre vac with an upright especially if rotary being used in parts but even with HWE.

Dont forget when putting hours to this £200 job, it just wasnt the floor area of 260sqmet but also 2 flights of stairs.

John rang me yesterday afternoon with the details and asked me what would I charge. Just working on brief information I said £375 for the carpets (260sqm) plus £50 for each staircase - bearing in mind thre will be more then the standard 13 treads in a house (probably 15 or 17) and they are usually wider then a house.

So £475 for probably 6-7 hours work inc set up/close down but exc travel.

« **Reply #36 on:** January 22, 2009, 10:41:53 am »

i feel sorry for someone thats been going for 20 years and still has to cut his prices to get work, i couldn't see shaun cutting his prices, he's built up a reputable business based on high quality, everybody knows him and keeps coming back for more, regardless of price, he's booked up because of quality, not cos he's cheap, you have permission to shoot me if in 20 years, i'm in the same BOAT

as colin.
derek

« **Reply #37 on:** January 22, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

"Lads, my point was a very simple one, if your diary is is always full and you don't need the work then you can afford to turn your nose up at a job like this without it affecting your business"

Derek
Read the first bit.

£200 for a days work is fine by me

"How do you work out £20.00 costs ?? Tax, insurance, surveyed the job, waited 30 days for your money, invoiced, training, fuel, advertising at say 7K per year , sick pay, holiday pay"

Paul
Every self employed tradesman has these costs
My father has been a self employed builder for 51 years and he's well off and he'd bite your hand off for £200 a day.
My brother has taken on a lot of his work now and he likes to be getting £140 to £160 a day.
These people have the same overheads and they manage adequately.
If you don't want it don't do it but don't moan when someone else prices it and gets it

John

« **Reply #38 on:** January 22, 2009, 02:10:34 pm »

sales don't mean nothing if theres no profit in them.

where do you draw the line simon, oops i mean colin.
when does it end,
so i go for the job, to get it i say £180, clinton decides he too wants the job so says £160, joes not busy so says £140.
should i go back and offer £120, i mean your saying it only costs £20 to do the job so i'm making £100 for a days work. oh! ang on, clintons just come back with an offer of £100.
where does it end simon, oops i mean colin.
i'm the newbie so you tell me, where do you draw the line, is a tenner better than sitting at home.
and while i'm here, what if my regular clients found out i was doing cheapo jobs on the side, think they'd be happy?
your advice might be good in the short term but as far as i'm concerned, its no way to build a reputable business.
derek

« **Reply #39 on:** January 22, 2009, 04:15:32 pm »

Derek

Helo simon

« **Reply #40 on:** January 22, 2009, 04:17:33 pm »

Its really quite simple isnt it ?

Either you want the job at the price you quote or you dont , I cant see the point in quoting a price , a price you feel is making you money after all of your x,s and then you go and sit and wonder "OH i might be to expensive, What shall i do ? " simple really quote ,and wait , if you start thinking about losing jobs your quoting for I suggest you find another another line of work.

I cut my price drasticlly when quoting commercial, for example a job the other evening £360.00 but as Jan is usualy a little quiet £250 if you have it done in Jan is what I told my custy, and already the custy has seen a saving of £110 . and yes I got the job, did the job in 3 hrs and custy booked me again in 6 months .

Geoff.
ps £250 is what i wanted in the first place.

« **Reply #41 on:** January 22, 2009, 04:48:12 pm »

Derek even after 20 years I still advertise but I do like to be kept busy, a local CD has adverts in every YP Thomsons and online plus others and has a min charge of £95 mainly because he gets volumes of calls plus any ins work based on HIS supply and demand and also a very very good sales girl on the phone aswell she quotes over the phone.

Shaun

« **Reply #42 on:** January 22, 2009, 04:51:21 pm »

wheres colin gone?

derek

« **Reply #43 on:** January 22, 2009, 04:54:30 pm »

I wondered who you were talking about

« **Reply #44 on:** January 22, 2009, 04:57:16 pm »

can i just point out that most of my posts on here are directed at colin finney, for some reason he has deleted his side of the arguement, this makes me look slightly mad, (not far wrong there

) but i'd just like to point that out incase it looks like i'm argueing with any of you guys,
derek

ps has he been banned or have i convinced him to change his views

« **Reply #45 on:** January 22, 2009, 05:06:26 pm »

Colin who Derek, and why are you rambling?

Maybe the Mods have deleted him, or Doug, he was a Rocker.

I think Mr Gregory did the right thing, for him. For someone else it might be another story.

Look at all the carpet cleaners that sustain a succesful business. They all vary in price and service, this allows them to co-exist and everybody is happy.

If we all had the same pricing and went after the same business most would be out of work.

« **Reply #46 on:** January 22, 2009, 05:21:58 pm »

mike
am i halucinating?
should i seek medical advice, maybe i'm making it up cos i miss tm so much, ya know, pretending i'm still there.
i have been drinking a lot of red wine since i packed up beer. bought it to try out some removal techniques on wool carpets, i removed it all right but it didn't go any where near the carpet samples. hiccup.

derek

« **Reply #47 on:** January 22, 2009, 05:23:38 pm »

Mike

Your right there on pricing

Could you imagine a price comparison site for carpet cleaners like we have for insurance

« **Reply #48 on:** January 22, 2009, 08:48:32 pm »

Just had a caller on wanting a price for terraced house carpets (lounge, stairs. landing, front bedroom and small bed room) I quoted £130-140 I know I'm not the cheapest but I did go through the clean and it sounds dirty,

what do you think he got quoted from one of the CD's?
what do you think he got quoted from another seperate cleaner?

Shaun

« **Reply #49 on:** January 22, 2009, 09:01:59 pm »

£190
£70
derek

« **Reply #50 on:** January 22, 2009, 09:11:52 pm »

I'm thinking on the same lines of Derek

Come on Shaun tell us

John

« **Reply #51 on:** January 22, 2009, 09:49:05 pm »

Hi Guys

240 and 50.

Cheers

Doug

« **Reply #52 on:** January 22, 2009, 09:49:46 pm »

Hi Guys

Felt I have to say that just because we disagree with someone doesn't give us the right to hound them or bully them.

If Colin or anyone else want to do that job for £200 then why should we judge him.

Personally if I had nothing on and wanted or needed the work I would do it, for all I know other people would see me working and it would open more doors for more work and what started out as a £200 job could end up as £500, or the £200 might turn into quarterly.

Where do we draw the line? Basically where you personally want to draw it, taking it down in an ever decreasing sarcastic circle is self defeating. Some people will draw the line at £200 other may do it for less, it is up to the individual.

We all know plumbers, electricians, tiler, roofer, etc who work for less than that every day, we have all done cheap work at some point (depending on the client) it is sad to harass someone for having their own opinion, so much so they delete all their posts.

Regards

Martin

« **Reply #53 on:** January 22, 2009, 09:50:35 pm »

Il go for

200 c d and am going with doug for the low one as bet the second has not much work so he will do it cheap

« **Reply #54 on:** January 22, 2009, 09:56:09 pm »

£290 for CD
£35

Shaun

« **Reply #55 on:** January 22, 2009, 10:03:42 pm »

Who did they go for ??

« **Reply #56 on:** January 22, 2009, 10:11:23 pm »

Couldn't tell you but not me, got that feeling that they didn't want my price or service I do hope they weren't looking for a cheaper price than £35 but I didn't like the tone I find that they usually cancel.

Shaun

« **Reply #57 on:** January 22, 2009, 10:12:57 pm »

Martin 606, Collins post have been deleted (by me) because there is doubt to his identity, not because of his opinions. he is entitled to his views, but no one should be allowed to lie and mislead other posters. we are supposed to be here to help each other

as moderator we try and promote a healthy, harmonious atmosphere for all to share ideas and advise,
if its hounding, bullying, & harassing to ask someone to fill in their profile or prove who they are, then I'm guilty

« **Reply #58 on:** January 22, 2009, 11:14:33 pm »

John that's how silly or stupid a lot of Carpet Cleaners are, the poor buffoon can only see pass his next tank of petrol so he charges enough to get him to his next destination hoping to make the same again or sometimes less. I face that everyday here in Brum domestic and commercial, thinking of leaving this place.

These CC see it as £200 they never had, and there next job is £30 and they see that as £30 they never had and that is what I hear from them they just don't consider the job they don't care all they see is money they never had. The job has no value, all that is of value is the pennies they didn't have.

IF ONLY THEY STOP TO THINK, WHY THEY NEVER HAVE ANY MONEY THEY WOULD REALISE THEY WASTE TIME CHASING EXPENSE, NOT MAKING ANY PROFITS. All they are using each job to do is cover costs.

Sell your service, ask them what is it they are getting for £200? the poor person probably has no idea. Take time to explain what you do and how you do it and don't forget the benefits even your insurance.

Remember we should all be professionals, but, are we?

Good luck -

« **Reply #59 on:** January 22, 2009, 11:20:55 pm »

Good Post Goldfinch

« **Reply #60 on:** January 23, 2009, 08:45:15 am »

Very good post Goldfinch.

To add to that with dommestic I believe a customer will value your service less if you are cheap. Like this:

"Wow thast carpet cleaner did a great job of my lounge, and it was only £35.00!" (quickly you are forgotton)

or

Wow that carpet cleaner did a great job of my lounge, I can see why he's expensive!" (you are valued and remembered)

« **Reply #61 on:** January 23, 2009, 04:46:47 pm »

Quote from: Mike Halliday on January 22, 2009, 10:12:57 pm

Martin 606, Collins post have been deleted (by me) because there is doubt to his identity, not because of his opinions. he is entitled to his views, but no one should be allowed to lie and mislead other posters. we are supposed to be here to help each other

as moderator we try and promote a healthy, harmonious atmosphere for all to share ideas and advise,
if its hounding, bullying, & harassing to ask someone to fill in their profile or prove who they are, then I'm guilty

Mike,
Regarding Colin,

In what ways has he lied and mislead this forum. Do you actually have proof, because if you have not, they are pretty libelous words to use.
I have read his earlier posts and can not see much wrong with them, other than he says what he thinks - as do many on this forum.
If there is a valid reason to ban him, why not divulge the reasons, so that we are all clear on this.

In one sentence you say "as moderator we try and promote a healthy, harmonious atmosphere for all to share ideas and advise".
In the very next sentence you then state that it's ok to Hound, Bully and Harass if it suits.

I have only been posting on this forum for a very short time, but I have now realised why so few people actually bother to post. It seems that some people are only willing to accept their own view and not willing to give anyone else's a hearing. A forum should be about debate, lively, yes but always in a courteous manner and with respect. I think you would get a lot more posters if this was the case.

In fact, I think some people replying to posts have not even properly read the posts that they are replying to. Come on Guys, give everyone a chance - Even the down and out lying drunk in the gutter has his story!!

Jim G

« **Reply #62 on:** January 23, 2009, 05:18:58 pm »

Hi

Jim, Fair post.

I could not be who I say I am, that picture could be from anywhere and not even me, should I also then be deleted?

As far as I saw, Colin was not being argumentative, rude, cocky, swearing etc, although other people are and quite often and yet this is tolerated.

Colin only said what he felt and in an honest manner, just because he has his own reasons for not giving out his personal info, that is his freedom of choice, he may be a very private person, I never said I was EnviroDri for a couple of years, i am therefore also guilty of not divulging info about myself, should I then be deleted?

Just because some people doubt his identity does that make them truthful and Colin not, are they being 100% honest just because they have put up a name and maybe a pic, is it the place of a moderator to Hound, bully and harass anyone to put up a profile which at the end of the day could be completely false.

Also where in his posts has Colin lied, can we see proof of said lie, no putting up personal info does not constitute a lie.

We should help each other, of course, but you cannot force people to divulge info they do not wish to, we then become a dictatorship by ordering people to do and we feel they should, it should be each individuals choice as to how much info, help & advice they wish to give and how involved they wish to be.

Regards

Martin

Disclaimer: Not feelings were meant to be hurt either intoned or intentional during this post

« **Reply #63 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:04:40 pm »

why is it such a big problem to ask some one to say who they are?

Martin is you were giving advice on trauma clean up and some asked why should we listen to you what would you say? would you tell them it none of their business or simply explain why you feel you are able to give advice on that subject.

this is what some one asked of Colin, (not me another member) they asked a simple question if I'm to take your advice can I ask who you are?

this question to me is the most important question we can ask, because from it we can decide if the advice given is credible or applicable to out own circumstances.

and I can see no reason not to answer

i asked Mike Boxall to check Colins detail because various member were making sarcastic comments toward Collin, I took it upon my self to remove any messages until the issue was resolved. unfortunately hes been away so hasn't looked into the matter

as long as I act in manner which I believe is in the best interest of this forum I don't care if people don't agree with my actions.

I think now I've given ample explanation , so won't comment any further

« **Reply #64 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:07:19 pm »

Im with the moderator on this.

Jim, you time on here has been short and you wont know the history.
Martin, you normally pop up on the general cleaning section so maybe you dont either.

but from time to time we get someone who disrupts the forum big time and get themselves banned.

some then try to get back on under an assumed identity, for whatever reason........

the mods presumably have ways and means of checking these through and act accordingly.

« **Reply #65 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:19:48 pm »

Am also with the moderator on this too

Good post joe you said it all

« **Reply #66 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:24:32 pm »

I don't think we have any choice but to be with the 'Moderator'

« **Reply #67 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:59:51 pm »

Quote from: Joe Hatton on January 23, 2009, 06:07:19 pm

Im with the moderator on this.

Jim, you time on here has been short and you wont know the history.
Martin, you normally pop up on the general cleaning section so maybe you dont either.

but from time to time we get someone who disrupts the forum big time and get themselves banned.

some then try to get back on under an assumed identity, for whatever reason........

the mods presumably have ways and means of checking these through and act accordingly.

Joe,
I appreciate your comments and wider knowledge of forum rules/ etiquette . I am a newbie at this, so that is why I asked the question. I have a feeling someone knows more than they are divulging, but it must be for a reason.

I can understand the difficult job a moderator must have in situations like this. My post was not intended to be a criticism of the moderator but a search for an answer to a question. I suppose a moderators job is the proverbial hot potato.

Jim G

« **Reply #68 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:14:17 pm »

Knowing Mike personaly as I do ,

I can see no reason for him to ban anybody/ delete any posts unless his reasons for doing so where in the interest of the forum, and as Mike has stated he has tried to clarify certain things with Mike Boxall.
Mike is one ,if not the most helpful c/c around ,his experience both in c/c and marketing has helped give advise to many a buddingc/c , I say this from my experience reading these forums for quite a while now and for the many holes Mike as helped me dig my way out of.
In my opinion a first class mod , straight talking and to the point

Geoff.
ps got to say that , dont want banning

« **Reply #69 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:23:29 pm »

What, in all honesty, did he do wrong?
He spoke his mind but not in an aggressive manner.
In fact I think he started some pretty good and lively debates.
Got a lot of people posting and it was nothing controversial, just an alternative view to some of more narrow minded people on this forums thoughts.
Sorry to see him go.

John

« **Reply #70 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:25:45 pm »

I 2nd that Geoff, Mike Halliday will let 99% of things ride but he has one of the hardest jobs on the forum and he is going to get kicked for it, now on the forum I moderate it's all peace and harmony

Shaun

« **Reply #71 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:35:23 pm »

Jim, Martin & John, Thank you for speaking out against what is selective censorship. The fact of the matter is there is no requirement on any member of this forum to fill out a profile upon joining and because I haven't fill it out mine all of my posts have been deleted. I wonder if the posts of all the other members who haven't filled out there profiles have also been deleted because that is the only thing mike can do if he wants to be seen as acting fairly and in the best interests of all of the members or merely himself.
We found this forum through our dealings with Express Cleaning Supplies who will be loosing a good customer if the deleting of my posts continues.
Col

« **Reply #72 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:40:17 pm »

Colin

I like to hear both sides of a dispute not just one.

John

« **Reply #73 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:44:26 pm »

Fill in your details and gain new friends.

Shaun Ashmore

« **Reply #74 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:46:52 pm »

colin, its not about your profile (anything can be put there) its about proving who you are to the member who asked.

but I've left it now in Mike Bs court, so I won't delete any more of your post I'll leave it to him

« **Reply #75 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:58:07 pm »

think that was me.
show us your website colin with your 3 vans and your team of family workers, surely you can do that, or were you lying?, personally, i wish i had 3 vans and a full family run business, certainly wouldn't hide it, and yes i'd take your comments into consideration if i knew you were genuine, prove me wrong that your not who i think you are and i will publicly apologise, ive always been man enough to apologise when i'm wrong. its not hard.
derek

« **Reply #76 on:** January 23, 2009, 08:13:45 pm »

Where are you based Colin?

Why not say who you are?

Having debate with someone as an anonomus person when you know who they are, is that fair?

To me its obsurd and also rude!

« **Reply #77 on:** January 23, 2009, 08:19:40 pm »

Colin

Think of something slightly more humiliating Derek has to do, surely it would be worth revealing your identity for that?

Sorry Derek

« **Reply #78 on:** January 23, 2009, 09:00:05 pm »

Mike, what annoys me is one very simple point. There is no requirement for any member of this forum to fill in there details let alone prove who they are to anyone. If there were then you would constantly be deleting post from all of the other members who have not filled out there profiles and whose identities must therefore also be question, but I don't see you deleting there posts. The unwritten rule you seem to be apply is that if someone asks you who you are, where you are from, your name address, telephone number, date of birth you must provide that information whether you want to or not. If that is the rule Mike then don't you think you should tell people about it.
For the record the reason I will not fill in my profile or prove who I am is firstly because it is not a requirement of membership of this forum to do but secondly we have a successful business which we have built up from scratch and while I am happy to share what I know with others I am dammed if I will divulge any information that may be of interest to my competitors as some of them are members on this forum.

Lots of you are happy to share your details, websites, email addresses with all and sundry but until now have seemed content to be surrounded by people like me who would prefer to play there cards closer to there chest and until now that doesn't seem to be a problem. Don't you think that makes you look like hypocrites?
Col

« **Reply #79 on:** January 23, 2009, 09:08:05 pm »

That's a very lucid reply Colin and I agree with a lot of your reasoning.

I guess the bottom line is if you sign up to any forum, fair or not. The Mods and the owners have the right to do whatever they want, if they want to. $:-\$

« **Reply #80 on:** January 23, 2009, 09:22:37 pm »

seems wierd to me that you don't want your competitors to know who you are (cos that will be detrimental to your business) but your willing to give them "good" advice, you said your self there on this forum. strange way of doing things.
are you the secret millionaire!
admit it, i sussed you out.
not nice getting barred for sensible comments is it?
derek

« **Reply #81 on:** January 23, 2009, 09:42:13 pm »

Colin I think you have your Mikes mixed up, Mike Boxall is the one you should be addressing.
Dave.

« **Reply #82 on:** January 23, 2009, 09:48:24 pm »

Yes Dave

Mike Boxall Owner

Mike Halliday 'Moderator'

Mike Osbourne I know my place....

« **Reply #83 on:** January 23, 2009, 10:07:41 pm »

Mike

« **Reply #84 on:** January 23, 2009, 10:12:24 pm »

why are half of you lot spitting your dummy out over a profile, i havent filled most of my profile in, am i bothered no, so whats all this who are you, am up my own arse stuff??? its just a forum
billy

« **Reply #85 on:** January 23, 2009, 10:16:56 pm »

Billy,
We all know who you are !! and IF anybody wanted to find out who you are, where your from they only need to look at your website

Paul

« **Reply #86 on:** January 23, 2009, 10:24:38 pm »

When the window cleaning section gets too friendly it's always a good laugh coming over to this section. The majority on that side don't have valid profiles.
Where's michael winner when you need him?
"Calm down dear, it's only a forum."

« **Reply #87 on:** January 23, 2009, 10:26:49 pm »

Nice site Will.

Vacuum has one c and two u u

« **Reply #88 on:** January 23, 2009, 10:34:49 pm »

If I had 3 vans and the family working for me and was successful, I wouldn't want my profile on here for my competitors to see, when I think about it

Colin has wrote some very helpful and positive posts IMO. If there's ever been anything anyone has wrote that I don't agree with or think is a bit offensive (which is a lot). I feel I am big enough and bold enough to disregard them and get on with reading the golden nuggets of advice.

« **Reply #89 on:** January 23, 2009, 10:44:07 pm »

Colin

Little Derek's like a dog with a bone and that's being polite.................looking back to August there were similar posts flying around about Jim Neal !

« **Reply #90 on:** January 23, 2009, 10:55:01 pm »

Colin, thanks for that, its nice to know that there are some fair minded people out there and not just a bunch of hyprocritical yes men.

Robert, if I had a dog that disturbed I would do the decent thing and put the poor thing down

Col

« **Reply #91 on:** January 23, 2009, 11:11:00 pm »

robert and ~~simon~~ colin

get a room guys.

derek

« **Reply #92 on:** January 23, 2009, 11:29:47 pm »

Sometimes they're just little yappy creatures, that eventually calm down and become loyal friends, but often people are drawn to the yappy ones, finding them amusing.

I've been guilty of presumption myself, when "new posts" don't sound right and got it wrong on a couple of occasions.

Derek

Why are you so vindictive and bloody minded...............I don't know what went on between you and S G, but he has built a very impressive business over a number of years, as have a number of others you've seen fit to criticise. Most are too polite to reply , or comment.

I have no idea who C F is, but his contribution has been perfectly acceptable, unlike a number of yours.

« **Reply #93 on:** January 23, 2009, 11:31:27 pm »

Robert

Your the scotish guy arnt you

Wondered where you had gone.

« **Reply #94 on:** January 23, 2009, 11:32:56 pm »

Derek,
Do you really believe that this Colin is Simon ?
Simon has far more pressing family issues to deal with at the moment than to be masquerading as someone else.
I thought you as one individual with your wife being ill might see this ?. maybe not though.

« **Reply #95 on:** January 23, 2009, 11:36:29 pm »

This forum is full of egos I think all of us should be a little more respectful, Yes Derek is a bit too sharp for his own good sometimes and Yes Robert you do come on here for an arguement but if it carries on like this we will all get banned or the carpet cleaning section will get closed down.

The fact that CF doesn't want to fill in his profile but has plenty of information to hand out does sound well 'dodgy' but if you don't like what he is saying just skip past it, no harm done.

Sometimes I can understand why other cleaners bypass this forum you lot act like bloody chavs sometimes.

Shaun

« **Reply #96 on:** January 23, 2009, 11:42:36 pm »

I dont no who Colin is couldnt care less but i would rather read his posts than some crap about Wii and how much Beer they drink.

« **Reply #97 on:** January 23, 2009, 11:58:35 pm »

I think the way things are going, they will replace Coronation Street with this forum.

What is all this fuss about? It really is getting out of hand.

If you don't want to kiss and make up - move on!!

Jim G

« **Reply #98 on:** January 24, 2009, 12:35:30 am »

Quote from: Mike Osbourne on January 23, 2009, 10:26:49 pm

Nice site Will.

Vacuum has one c and two u u

Will

I can't spell either, I thought I was pointing something out you could change if you knew about it. No need to slang me off on another forum!

Sorry you took it the wrong way.

« **Reply #99 on:** January 24, 2009, 12:38:29 am »

Couldn't agree more Shaun, we should be respectful, but hold on, that's why I posted, or was I mistaken in my interpretation of those posts !!!

I certainly agree about the chavs comment, but suspect our idea of who fits the chav label, might be different.

Anyway, have a good weekend

« **Reply #100 on:** January 24, 2009, 12:58:19 am »

Just wondering how much to charge for a 300ft cruise ship, anyone got any ideas?

« **Reply #101 on:** January 24, 2009, 10:05:42 am »

Naaaaaaaah

Don't get involved with little boats !

« **Reply #102 on:** January 24, 2009, 11:45:57 am »

These arguments, accusations etc do nothing for what forums like this are designed. The root cause of members suspicions, and hence frustrations are the weak individuals who for their own selfish pathetic reasons choose to cause mischief. They are not man enough to argue or discuss topics in a mature open manner under their true identity, instead they register a ficticious name. Quite often this is glaringly obvious and the culprit can easily be identified, but its also true that someone could be wrongly identified, and to be falsley accused of something, that is hard to defend is truly terrible.
Whether there is a culprit in this case, and whether the suggested person is indeed the one responsible, I dont know, but could I just suggest in future that if that if anyone has suspicions of a ficticious member posting, they do not respond to his input. They usually go away eventually anyway.
Dave.

« **Reply #103 on:** January 24, 2009, 12:16:12 pm »

Regardless of the rules of this, or any other forum for cleaning PROFESSIONALS, it is a matter of courtesy to say at least who you are and where you're from. Yes have a"Nom de Plume" but make it clear in some way exactly who you are.

Safe and happy cleaning

CleanBiker from Alvechurch

« **Reply #104 on:** January 24, 2009, 12:39:31 pm »

Ken

I agree on that one and just a little about themselves would only take a min or so to do that

« **Reply #105 on:** January 24, 2009, 02:19:14 pm »

Unless they make it a rule to do so, there's not much can be done if people wish to withhold details about themselves. We have to respect people's wishes if they do not want to give any information about themselves.

It matters not a jot to me because I come on here to learn about my chosen profession, not to find out where people are from, it's a Cleaners forum not a dating site.

« **Reply #106 on:** January 24, 2009, 03:06:51 pm »

What I was really refering to in my last post was not so much someone registering and using a nickname or similar, but an already registered member, registering another identity to cause mischief/have a laugh/annoy others or whatever. Then when they disagree with a post, can be quite offensive in their arguments without their true identity being revealed.
Dave.

« **Reply #107 on:** January 24, 2009, 03:17:56 pm »

Hi

It seems quite a lot of people on this site do not reveal everything about themselves, some do not have their age, some do not have an email, some don't put area etc, etc, etc.

Doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about, if it is that important then make it an absolute rule when joining.

In the posts I have seen from Colin, I don't think I have seen him be abusive, nasty, or derogatory in any way.

He doesn't have to reveal where he is from, is he alone not allowed that basic freedom of choice.

I agree with Happy Colin, it's not a dating site

Regards

Martin

« **Reply #108 on:** January 24, 2009, 03:32:52 pm »

i agree with giving info about yourself but you also have the right not to give info about yourself if you choose.

Its entirely up to the moderators who they bin if they feel its not constructive on here. And tell me if i am wrong we are all on here to share tales and get ideas.

Also if you have any doubts about someones ethics on a topic you dont have to contribute to the subject bit like a puppy if you ignore it it stops jumpin up and goes away.

I have personally being trying to put picture on with no success. any ideas perhaps my pic is too butt ugly

« **Reply #109 on:** January 24, 2009, 03:45:32 pm »

Hi

Can't be that bad Richard, managed to get my ugly boat up!

It is probably too big, reduce the size and in profile click on the add my own pic and then browse to the pic you want.

Good luck

Regards

Martin

« **Reply #110 on:** January 24, 2009, 04:01:27 pm »

Richard

If you go onto your profile info there is a section that says upload your photo just browse and attatch it,dont worry took me ages to fathom it out and had to reduce the picture on mine,so i put them on our face book page and did it from there

« **Reply #111 on:** January 24, 2009, 04:21:39 pm »

thanks worked it put

« **Reply #112 on:** January 24, 2009, 05:42:33 pm »

Nice one richard you did it quicker than i did

« **Reply #113 on:** January 24, 2009, 06:24:59 pm »

Hi Guys

I was brought up that a man offers a firm handshake and looks you in the eye.

To me our profiles are our handshakes and I take a lot more notice of those who have them filled in , than those who don't.

In fact if I wasn't moderating I wouldn't even bother reading the posts of those who hide behind various excuses why they have to act in a shifty manner.

More and more have their photos, websites etc on their profiles so we know who they are and this is increasing all the time.

James Roffey for example, a newbie came on from day 1 with his proper name and immediately gained respect.

Cheers

Doug

« **Reply #114 on:** January 25, 2009, 03:45:09 am »

martin 606 rich dad,poor dad.....class

Ryan

« **Reply #115 on:** January 25, 2009, 09:52:06 am »

Hi

Ryan, glad you liked it, that book changed my life.

Regards

Martin

« **Reply #116 on:** January 25, 2009, 01:27:26 pm »

Doug, as I have said before, we came across this site through our businesses dealings with Express Cleaning Supplies. At first I thought the forum was a cross section of friendly people with mixed abilities and levels of success but it appears to be run by a group of people who make the rules up as they go along. My presence was tolerated until I said how successful we were and from then on I have been the target of the bully boy tactics of the few, suffering harassment and hypocrisy, I have even been accused of being someone else. I have said this before and I will say it again, I am within the rules of this forum as there is no rule that states that anyone has to prove who they are or in this case who they are not.
After having deleted ALL of my posts, some that contained opposing views to his own which I think stinks Mike Halliday said this the other day on this very subject.

colin, its not about your profile (anything can be put there) its about proving who you are to the member who asked.

Where does it say this and if there is no rule then why are the moderators not defending me. If that isn’t hypocrisy Doug then what is? You said recently:
In fact if I wasn't moderating I wouldn't even bother reading the posts of those who hide behind various excuses why they have to act in a shifty manner.

Before you say anything else, you and anyone else on here that chooses to slander my good name should be very careful about what you say about me on a public forum.

I joined this forum because I saw it as a place that I could use to share what I know about this business. While I refuse to fill out my profile, (because it would involve revealing sensitive information to our many competitors). I was prepared to share my own ideas on how to build a successful carpet cleaning business for those members that might find it interesting, informative and helpful in their own businesses and of course to provide something for the idiots to ridicule. But why bother, because to get to the genuine people who I may be able to help in some small way, I have to suffer the constant bullying to conform to a rule that doesn’t exist. All I am trying to do is help other people, is there something wrong with that Doug, or do you have another unwritten rule about that too?
Col

« **Reply #117 on:** January 25, 2009, 01:57:31 pm »

I must admit that I find this whole thread extremely tedious.

However, out of curiosity I just logged onto the truckmounters forum and Simon is currently offline at the same time that Colin is online.

The inference seems to be that Simon is Colin - now I appreciate that he could have 2 computers, however Simon is an intelligent man and I can't believe he would go to all that trouble just to post on this forum - especially as none of Colin's posts are imflammatory or causing mischief.

I could of course be completely wrong - but then again I couldn't give a monkeys one way or the other :

Steve

« **Reply #118 on:** January 25, 2009, 02:23:42 pm »

Hi All

It's not about being tedious, it's about Injustice.

Colin, IMO, has been dealt with Unjustly.

He has given help and advice and has been deleted for it. He doesn't HAVE to prove he has 3 vans on the road, why can't his word be good enough, or at least given the benefit of the doubt?

On another thread where Sherco rightly points out that £200 a day will be £4000 every 20 days, but what some people are saying on here is that £200 is not worth it. Maybe for one job it may not be, depending on certain factors, but to turn down say 20 jobs over the year then there would possibly be £4000 less on the books. taken over 5 years that £20,000 less that's gone to someone else.

There are plenty of people on here that have not filled in every detail of their profile, why not? Is there something to hide? Can they be trusted? why are they not willing to give every detail? should they be able to give advice if they can't fill out every detail? etc ad infinitum.

Colin like the rest of us doesn't HAVE to prove anything.

Regards

Martin

« **Reply #119 on:** January 25, 2009, 03:45:29 pm »

Hi Martin

I think you're missing the point - this isn't about Colin being deleted for not filling in his profile, although that is the consequence. It's about Colin and Simon supposedly being one and the same person and Colin adding smoke to the fire by not wanting to prove who he is.

Personally I don't know why Simon would bother to do this when he has his very own forum to post anything he wants, but as I said before I could be wrong.

Steve

« **Reply #120 on:** January 25, 2009, 04:10:18 pm »

ZZZZZZZZZZ getting borin. arguing about whos who if its all such a big deal make it a requirement to fill in all your info and provide pic then we can get back to whats important. you can make your own rules on these things if you feel someone is not who they say they are are not being constructive just dont contribute or fuel fire to the debate.

« **Reply #121 on:** January 25, 2009, 04:35:55 pm »

Richard

Wish all the newbies were like you with your suport for filling in just some details

This is a great forum and i have learnt so much over my time on here(10 months)'

Trouble is some want to try and rock the boat on here and disrupt the forum

I phone and mail lots of the guys on here week to week and have built up some good friendships.

cheers clinton

« **Reply #122 on:** January 25, 2009, 05:05:28 pm »

Same here clinton this forum has been really valuable to me made some good contacts. I have always thought when running any business you take all the research you can gain from everywhere and doctor it to the way works for you cause what may not work for one may work for someone else. Whats the point in with holding your identity people are more likely to share info when they know who you are.