[ian richards]

Hi Guys

This is an idea that i have been toying with for a while now, and after speaking to a supplier who has been doing it for a while now, and very successfully!!! I thought well lets ask. It may be a good idea or it may be a bad one.
WHO KNOWS!! YOU DECIDE!!!
It may have even been metioned on this forum before, i dont know, but i would certainly value your feedback as to wether you think that it may work, if you dont think so, then thats ok, its just an idea!

The idea is, if we could get a group of CC's across the uk to all advertise as being a National company it would obviously open a few doors to more commercial work and maybe insurance work too. 
So i get a phone call to ask, do we cover Manchester, i say yes we do and then pass it on to the relevent company, a bit like how Interflora works, the same would apply for Essex, the North east, Wales or anywhere in the uk for that matter. The only stipulation that i would make is that the company would be members of the NCCA. and maybe Wool safe approved.
I know doing this would bring a variety of problems, but i'm sure they could be overcome.
We could sail under the flag of lets say "The National Guild of Carpet cleaners"
SORRY!! but that was the first thing that came in to my head. 
Anyway take a vote and leave some feed back.

Cheers

Ian
 

[Everbrite]

Yes very good idea but not to keen on the NCCA part.Why not just those who have been in the business say over ten years?? if a company can still be trading for over ten years they cant be all that bad.

[ian richards]

Good point, but i thoght of the idea and based on that i wouldnt be allowed in
 
Ian

[Dave_Lee]

Ian,
Isnt the idea what you are suggesting just the same as a franchise, like interflora. On the other hand maybe you mean a national call centre (many franchises also have one) with the enquiries being passed to a member in that locality (like the NCCA). Sounds good, but imo unlikely to work, especially long term.
Dave.

[des]

Over the last year i have done ten jobs for other carpet cleaner,s around the country I think if we all had the area that we covered on our profile or a list  it would be very easy to look up the carpet cleaner in the area and offer him the job If you wanted to make sure that the standard remained high you could have a card system which could be returned to the person running it and if you had so many conplaints about you standerd of cleaning you would be removed from the list for a period or for good Some monthly money could be involved (a small amount )to help with the running cost but to start with lets just get our names on a list and the area that we cover for those who are interested  des ps im sure some one,s wife is sat at home and would love to answer the phone and pass on the telephone to the man or woman in the area and recive a payment for this   (TOGETHER WE ARE STRONG ) I cover the salisbury area in wiltshire and i would be willing to do jobs up to 25 miles area   ,who,s next

[Everbrite]

Ten years was just a number i plucked out Ian. NCCA means nothing to most of the public but the number of years trading speaks for its self. By all means count me in I am sure we could get a list and go from there.

[darrenlee]

great idea, in theory.
take some managing and time.
could work, if you think about it, it needs to be a bit like interflora, but inter clean.
needs a base that then allocates jobs to areas.
cost,  funding £ per area a year. that would be the hard part.
my opinion have to elect someone say southeast, southwest,
midlands, northeast, northwest, etc who are then on a panel
who are the voice for that area. re elected from members every 2 years. these panel members can then see where members funds are going etc. and decide salarys for who ever is running
central operations. majbe me 

[Gavin Reardon]

Hi All

I all ready do a simlar thing with carpet cleaners in South+Mid Wales so I would be able to cover that area.

I belive the NCCA is a good thing as you will know the carpet cleaner has had some training and is fully insured. Just cos you been doing it a long time to me does not mean you been doing it right for a long time!

NCCA members have this sort of thing in place already only this week they have put two jobs my way. My be what we need to do is plug the NCCA more so the UK become use to the name and what it means.

Regards Gavin

[ian richards]

145 times this subject has been read, but not a lot of feedback left.
We need as many as we can to leave some feedback even if you think its a waste of time, all you guy's that post regular on this forum.

YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!

Leave some feedback.

I am quite prepared to push it forward if there is enough possitive feedback.

Ian

[Karl Wildey]

ok great idea, been done before and failed, no ones yet to do it with success.

So lets rock the boat.
Ncca/IICRC trained - a must.
I cleaned carpets for 10 years before I took my first carpet cleaning course, and  there was bucket loads I did not know. Being in business does not make you a good carpet cleaning, just a good marketer, just looks at chem-dry, (only joking chem-dry).
Why anti-NCCA, is it just cos they ask for a yearly sub, and you have to pay a one -off training price too.
I make well above my yearly sub in recommendations and contact work.

AND FINALLY... you are missing the point. The suggestion is to get a national carpet cleaning company together, so we can get big contracts with the national chain companies, and these chains use only reconised carpet cleaning companies ie NCCA trained.
When it comes to the public, you would have to spend a fortune getting a reconised name across, think of all those national know names, none of them are small spenders are they, and we are objecting at joining the NCCA, why? Is it because of the costs involved.

[woodman]

I raised a similar topic quite a while back and proposed something along the lines you are discussing now called the National Network of Professional Carpet Cleaners ( NNPCC).

It got a very luke warm reception just like you are finding now and got no further than an idea.

A tie in with the NCCA would be the way to go but I really don't think they would be interested.

[BeeClean]

maybe im missing something but isnt this what the ncca should be doing

[Ken Wainwright]

My view about the NCCA Membership issue in this type of instance is this.  It is a guarantee of a good minimum standard of training. It is  a quarantee that a company is suitably insured. NCCA Members are obliged to conduct themselves with integrity.  For a marketing company as envisaged, this would be a no cost way of ensuring these basic, minimum requirements, so let the NCCA do this work for you    The actual NCCA membership in itself can mean as much or as little as you want it to.

The biggest challenge will be from the organisational/administration aspect along with costs involved. It will be more akin to a franchise as others have suggested.

Not for me, but I wish you all the best of fortune.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

PS The NCCA is NOT a sales/marketing company. It is a trade association for carpet and upholstery cleaners. Yes,  part of it's role is to educate the public about the benefits of using NCCA Members, but this is only a small part of the associations activities. There are companies better placed at providing marketing training and skills than the NCCA.

[BeeClean]

Ken, is this idea something that the ncca has considered?

[Karl Wildey]

NCCA is an assocaition, and represents a collection of carpet cleaners under one banner. The public can use a NCCA member and have some guarantees that non-NCCA members can not provide. But, the NCCA is not there to find work and national contracts.

The idea (the title of this discussion) is a good idea, but a lot of hard work, a lot of time.
 I am sure lots of cc will wish to join, but who will put up the time, and effort to get this up and running.

[paul@ctcs]

Guys,

Allocate you regional leaders and arrange a meeting when we all get together at MK. Why not run a thread for nominations for area leader then run a poll for each zone to decide who takes it, with results only visable at the end of a fixed time period, to add suspence

Paul

[Ken Wainwright]

Simon

Not being a director of the NCCA, I'm not priviliged to what is discussed at board meetings. And much of this discussion is confidential anyway.  However, many NCCA members, me included, have discussed this issue both privately and publicly. It wouldn't be unreasonable of me to suspect that NCCA Directors will have done so too.

If the membership felt that the Association should be more proactive and aggressive in marketing directlly to the consumer in order to create more work, all you need to do is put a proposal forward for discussion at the AGM. You need to be a member first. Then vote for or against it. OK, it wouldn't be that simple as a suitable Director with the necessary skills would need to be appointed or, more likely, an outside agency or perhaps an employee taken on board. Then there's the funding. It would be an enourmous investment. The consquences would then be that many members would not then be prepared to pay the vastly increased membership fees (me included) and the Association would then be moving away from being an association to becoming a marketing company.

Many have voiced an opinion that the NCCA should be leading the way with a national sales/marketing programme. As stated by many, this is not their "raison d'etre". But, this expertise does exist elsewhere. What about approaching the likes of ProClean or The Alltec Network. Companies like this already have the skills,  expertise and infrastructure to implement much of what is being disussed. A serious commitment to their programmes is required, and no small sum of cash too. Most carpet cleaners know that already. Or, being perhaps a little cynical, is it that apart from a select few, not enough people are prepared to put their money where their mouth is 

Safe and happy marketing
Ken

[Everbrite]

why do you guys make it look and sound so complicated why do you want the NCCA to hold your hands all the time??

[paul@ctcs]

I agree there is no point getting hung up on the ncca, I would say being IICRC  trained would be prefrable, due to the more in depth courses. Advertising would come at a cost but nothing we dont already have to do, with YP etc.

Paul

[Everbrite]

Well said that man well said. You will do for me
Most of the domestics that i do have no idea who or what is the NCCA they need to spend some money in that sector.

[Karl Wildey]

so we agree that we don't need the NCCA, but their needs to be a standard, ie training.
And if not NCCA, its has to be IICRC, or Prochem.
agreed?

I like the idea of regional areas, easy to set up one regional group, then a whole country,

So what next?

(As mentioned some dosmetics custards do not know what NCCA is, and they have been going for decades, you see how big a task it will be to get a reconised name.)

[Everbrite]

Yes Karl there has to be a standard i am sure if a body of C/C got together it could be sorted.
And as you rightly say the NCCA has been running for many a year then WHY does not the domestic customer know? If anybody wants to meet up count me in i am sure we all have our own ideas.

[des]

I have just come of a web site in the usa called The carpet -cleaning resource center set up to advertise carpet cleaners .You just put in which state you need a carpet cleaner in and then which town  How easy would this be  for some one to start up a web site and call it what you like .The cost of the running of the site and any advertising would have to be covered but as more carpet cleaners  joined this would get less You would advertise on the side of your van also   des   Why not call it NEED A CARPET CLEANER UK

[stevegunn]

Des got a link to the site

[Karl Wildey]

Its not that the dosmetic customer does not know the NCCA, its not what they are looking for.
They want a carpet cleaned, end of story. Price and time to suit also required.
Commercial customer wish the same, but also want a guaranteed job.
If you approach a chain, then they required the same, but with national coverage as well.

When a national chain wants carpets cleaned in all its branches it has two choices, franchise companies or NCCA  registered cc.

You must remember 'the idea', and stick to that to make it work, its no good just having a pop at the NCCA, as this is not they job. (ken posting above sums this up).

[CARPET KNIGHTS]

wasn't this same subject discussed a couple of weeks ago

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6171.0

lots of people interested in it and haven't heard a thing since.

I'm new to this business so does that mean that i would not be able to be a part of this.

wouldn't that make it even harder for the newcomers to get going when there is a national organisation that they are not allowed to be part of taking all of the jobs away.

[ian richards]

Well!!!!

That little remark to my fellow collesgue's has stired it up a bit i feel.
Good that was the idea

There have also been some constructive remarks.
I think that it is safe to say that there are a few people willing to give it some extra thought. I have to agree with paul, having gained an IICRC qualification will in fact show that you have had some indepth training.
No, we dont have to have the NCCA to support us, but it would be nice!
I can see all the polotics that would come about from them supporting us, and perhaps they dont have too. If it were a success then they might be willing to hold our hand at a later date.
Think about this
If you were to stand in the middle of a street and turn round in a full circle taking in eveything that you see that was around you, without you even realising you would possibly be looking at over a 100 different things that we see each day and dont give a moments thought about. Of how they came to be.
Yet i promise you that most of the people who thought of these THINGS whatever they may be, faced massive ridicule when they wanted to put them into practice.
If they had took notice and walked away believing in those who ridiculed them, do you think that they would have developed into what we see today, of course they wouldnt!!!
The point i'm making is, yes this can work, but i agree that you have to have the funding, brains, will, and comitment to see it through.
Why should the franchises get all the action, NO WAY should they!!! Who said they were any better than us. You cant tell me that Chemdry didnt start from a one mand band!! If there were the the right people behind this opperation then i can't see a problem.

How many of you have heard this??

HALF GLASS FULL

OR

HALF GLASS EMPTY

Which one are you

IAN  
      

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys,

At this stage I think the industry is too fragmented to get this together.

I would start with a list of carpet cleaners in each area who cross refer each other.

I would not get bogged down in trade organisations as this will only lead to divisions.

The only criteria would be the willingless of all involved to do a professional job.

Anyone not coming up to scratch on this would be removed.

Cheers,

Doug

[Karl Wildey]

Posting are postive to negative, sorry doug you being negative, Ian is right, but who is going to do this. (funding, brains etc).

Carpet Knight - I agree with you but the basic of a good cc is training, so that should be the entry level, not the amount of time in business, but good training.

So lets cut the big picture up!!!

Don't go national, go regional, set up regional branches, get these in place and then combine to form a national operation. As long as we all agree on a name and standard, to start with, as they say lets walk before we run.

Only other problem with national companies is there will be gaps, espically in Wales and Scotland, (and poss Northern Ireland). But you overcome this with 90% of the natioanl population covered (or whatever the mobile phone companies say)

[Ian Gourlay]

Ian,

I think I read on your excellent Web Site, that you are a memember of The Alltec Select Team

I would have thought this would be the best vehicle to achieve National Coverage. You would have had to have done the Courses.

Then there is The Solutions Team,

ProClean


Prochem

I believe Carpet Cleaners in The Kent Area get work passed on to them by Ashbys.

Then we could have Express Cleaners

Etc Erc Etc,

I think what I am saying is that it could be supplier lead.

Entry would be technical knowledge and using that supplier exclusively.

This would then increase suppliers turnover.

As I said in a previous post I was in a similiar scheme for Newsagents and it worked.

It was funded out of Discounts obtained from our Suppliers.

We were able to arrange joint promotions, Regional and national Press Advertising Local Radio etc.

It did cost the bottom line, because you paid through Discounts you might have been able to negotiate.

The annual running costs administration advertising etc were quite High.

I think to make it work Each participant would have to put in £100 plus a week.

[Doug Holloway]

Karl,

Just trying to be realistic BUT if you don't try , you  dont know.

Personally I would'nt get involved in anything too complicated, maybe because i'm happy as I am.

Good Luck,

Doug

[Everbrite]

Cant all interested parties meet in a chat room??

[des]

Steve have just gone on to site and all i can see is the name CCRC.I have e mailed them asking if they would be willing to say something about there web site des

[Ken Wainwright]

Last year, I had the priviledge of spending some time with Franco Preo of FreshAire Carpet Cleaning, in Perth Western Australia.

Franco is a well respected, knowledgeable and experienced carpet cleaner down under, and if i remember correctly, he is either the founder or one of the founders of The Advantage Group Carpet Cleaners inc.  This would appear to be the sort of co-operative organisation that many are thinking of setting up here in the UK. Visit http://www.agccwa.com/about_us.asp  for more information.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Kevin_Gare]

Lets all talk about this when we get to MK. I thought that was what we were going to do anyway

One website with inter- links to the diffrent areas with ONE person that can pass on the work in that area.

Regards Kevin


ps. It could work IF there are not to many people knocking the systerm, but hey thats life...

[Doug Holloway]

Hi,

I've got www.ukcarpetcleaners.com which I was going to set up as a list of experienced cc's, BUT have just been too busy.

I still hope to do something like this and I was going to use my search engine knowledge , to get it up the top of the searches as 1st4carpetcleaning is,  in Essex and local areas.

Cheers,

Doug

[Everbrite]

well Ian what do you think to the idea now?
Lets go go go  :

[Kevin_Gare]

Hi Guys

I'm a member of the Allect team, Proclean and only got ONE job in about god knows how many years from them so that does not work.

I feel that what ever we do it should not be linked to any one supplier that way they cannot take control at the end of the day. And if they wanted to advertise on the site then that could be the way to get the money to fund it.

And it should start by being regional that way it could be kept in order and the main person for each area could be in touch with the other areas once a month to see how things are going. There could even be a report posted on the website for just the CC's to see so that everybody knew what was going on. Because everybody would be a member and equal.

Sorry for going on, Hope this makes sense.

Regards Kevin

[Everbrite]

well we go round and round in circles for gods sake lets gooooooooooooooooooooooo.
shall i start the list??

[Ian Gourlay]

In away Trevor (Woodman) is trying to get ball rolling with his Royal Mail Co OP

leaflet distribution.  He has also organized Milton Keynes.

So board members have been working together for a long time.

Trevors idea requires commitment, so that could be a first test.

Yellow Page Adverts

Well we could all have a listing similiar to NCCA advert in local YP

There are probably three or four board members per Yellow Page area.

Could club together buy Full or half page advet with area contacts.

Might work out but not all on this board has faith in Yellow Pages, There are many testomies that a big advert brings in a considerable amount a month.
I do not know how far they travel

I do not know as I only have a Little one, but I would not mind putting my YP money into a joint one aslong as there was say 20 miles radius between each contributor.


For example Paul CTCS is about 35 miles away in same Yellow Page Area but would we agree about advert content? Then there is I think Phil who would be about 35 miles from Paul in same Yellow Page area. so we would need another three and it could be done. This is not a formal proposal just illustrating how it could work.

But that does not require some great alliance

[Karl Wildey]

Fibre reviver - you get my vote, put me down for the Norfolk area, company is Connoisseur carpet care,

Lets start the ball rolling, if it stops then maybe we can start it rolling again, but until we start we do not know what are going to be are main problems

[Everbrite]

Thats True Karl I am sure there must be a way to make it work. I am on my own have been trading since 1992 so must be doing something right. Anymore Interested???

[ian richards]

Hi All

Due to the positve feedback that this topic has recieved, i think it is certainly worth taking to the next stage.
There has been some interesting and constructive criticism received but i can not see too much to be concerned about, after all' what we are saying here is for us to develop a credible way of moving business to our fellow CC's across the uk.
We all know the reason insurance companies use franchises,  because they see them as being a larger organisation of which they can use to act as a sole agent for themselves, and getting some form of discount enabeling themselves to save money!! We all know how it works!!
So, our hope is to develop a  BODY of some sort, to moniter and help develop an organisation that will compete against such franchises.
It does not have to be BIG straight away, we plant the seed and nurture the  development and hopefully watch it grow into a highly regarded, stable and recognized organisation.

So, we know what we want , the next stage is to put the chain round the cog and start to peddle!!!


I would therefore ask for all interested parties to forward their names and area's of which they would like to cover.

I would also suggest that we hold a meeting at Milton Keynes to brainstorm our ideas, and to form a commitee to push the idea forward.

Listed below are some deffinates that we will need to consider to establish the project.

1. Do we have to be NCCA recognized?

2. Do we have to be IICRC trained?

3. Does it make any difference of how long we have  been trading?

4. Who will market the venture?

5. How will we fund the venture?

6. Who is seriously prepared to put the time and effort in, to get this opperation moving?
7. Do we need a website ( I personally think its a must! )

ONLY, and i must stress ONLY, put your names forward if you really want this venture to happen, i dont want to get involved if it collapses after a few weeks because nobody is doing there bit!!!

We will need a few people to work together on this project so we will need to nominate our fellow CC's

All these can be decided at a later date, we will have to wait and see who puts there name forward.

SO GET POSTING!!!

One thing we will need is PERSISTANCE!!

And persistance is,

"Doing the thing, that you said you would do, long after the mood you said it in, has left you!!"

Ian

[gwrightson]

so Ian ,
 What you are saying is " if not NCCA recognised , or IICRC trained " they are not likely to be considered as part of this scheme!!!
 I would suggest that an awful lot of capable c.c. would fall into this catogory
 therfore you are would be excluding any number of c.c. However having said this , I would also say that perhaps these c.c. would not be interested any way
as they would be already be members of these organisations.
 does this make sense?
  geoff
 

[ian richards]

Hi Geoff

No, i'm not saying that!!!

Try reading the post again mate!!

What i asked for was people's input, it's not for me to decide, it's for the forum to decide.

The only thing i stressed was for certain points to be considered.

Ian 

[CARPET KNIGHTS]

I'm up for it.

so long as you don't hold the fact that i'm a beginer and i'm not in any clubs against me

20 mile radius of truro

[gwrightson]

Ian point taken, you did not state that these where neccesary qualifications,
 but from reading your post , that was impression i got.  That as they would be up for disscusion, the liklyhood, and no doubt possible out come would be that these would be pre qualifiying neccesitys.
  Well thats the impression i am getting!!!  I could be wrong!! as often i am
   Carpet Knights well all I can say is , wait and see
  Hope i am proved wrong
  geoff

[paul@scc]

thought id have my 10p worth. What you all are suggesting is something that is very simple and basic to set up and has been working in other service sectors for year ie plumber, driving agencies etc etc

  Most of there systems work like this they ring a national call rate number that asks them to input there phone number this then put them in direct communication with the nearest source. by making it a national number this would cover all call and communications costs

 Second point must be there has to be a level of entry ie ncca member or prochem trained even though the genral public dont recognise what this is they understand the basis of belonging to such an organisation

 The only problems i see is the general public taking to this instead of just ringing the 1st cc they see in the yp or the leaflets that come through the door. There has got to be money to educate people on the impotance of c.c which is where the money would have to invested and who would be prepared to pay on average of £100 up front

[Gavin Reardon]

Hi  All

As I posted earlyer I would able to cover the  South and Mid Wales area,

And I agree with what Paul has posted before me.

Also how often do you clean customers homes because they are moving  to diffent areas of the uk? for work or study etc

Myself pretty often, Give them the person's name and number of the c/c who is in charge of that area and Bob's your uncle it working its that simply 

Regards Gavin

[stevegunn]

Who's going to take responsibility if the cc say in Scotland does a poor job and the client wants it done again by another cleaner as he was not happy with the first one.Is there going to be someone who will travel round the country making sure everyones work is up to standard like a quality assurance inspector.Costs would be incurred if this happened where does that money come from?Who decides on the quality of workmanship carried out?How many strikes would you have against you before work was stopped coming your way? Lots of things to sort out before this project could take off the ground.

[paul@scc]

 I think to lower the risk of the job not being upto a satisfactory standard then the should offer the money back guarentee i think this would lower the amout of complaints if there was still a ongoing complaint then like posted by a few before then an area co-ordinator would be on hand to sort any problems out a
membership fee would go to some way of helping plus that any work carried out by a carpet cleaner would incurr say 5%. The good thing is that using a telephone system all number. would be stored for ring backs to customers to find out if there is anyone hiding any work.
I would be very happy to help set this type of system up

[Everbrite]

Well its getting closer to getting it going, but can we meet halfway say Sheffield Milton Keynes is to far south for most to travel.
Put me on the list i will cover East-coast what we need now is a good chat to sort out training etc etc.

[ian richards]

Well!!!!

Now that i have asked everybody to show there hands.....

It's all gone very quiet

Ian

[paul@scc]

well maybe a list should be arranged and a meeting sorted

[Everbrite]

Thought i had already said that come on lets get going or just forget it
Ball now in your court Ian

[ian richards]

Like i said , can we have a show of hands from the cc's who want to get involved?

And as yet there arnt many 

The CC's  that are going to Milton Keynes who want to have a meet, pm me and i'll sort out a time.

But i must say, already the interest is starting to diminish

As i said before it will need a lot of support!!!

Ian 

[richardcartieruk]

If anyone wants a few good ideas let me know.  I know it can work just need a level head to make it work and organise it


Richard

[paul@scc]

Hi im still intrested just depends on what the doc says tommorow

[ian richards]

Will be speaking to aother CC in the next few days to take it to the next stage, so..... Watch this space

Ian