Joe W Brown

  • Posts: 217
Spm
« on: October 10, 2012, 11:32:02 am »
Cleaning a cream wool carpet. Haven't had much luck with spm on the grey traffic lanes BUT on stains it was Magic. They disappeared before my eyes as soon as the spray hit them. Client walked upstairs and said 'oh you've got rid of the stains then'

I hadn't done anything yet, only presprayed!



Joe W Brown

  • Posts: 217
Re: Spm
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2012, 11:33:25 am »
It was boosted with solo boost


Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: Spm
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2012, 11:38:23 am »
Just wondering if Solutions Sample Kit includes hard floor products also or could you specify just Carpet and upholstery Products

AshWhite

  • Posts: 3427
Re: Spm
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2012, 11:48:27 am »
No, only carpet & upholstery chemicals Ian.

I think the majority of hard floor chemicals from Solution are actually 'Xcalibur'.
Carpet Cleaning http://www.floors2show.co.uk
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Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: Spm
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2012, 11:53:38 am »
Will give them a try when I restock

Joe W Brown

  • Posts: 217
Re: Spm
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2012, 02:09:31 pm »
All went balls up.

 5 minutes after rinsing the stains re-appeared.


I re-did it with Shockwave and they have gone again. Hopefully this time for good.

I still can't help but wonder if it would have been better with Powerburst.

Carpets still look grubby even after shockwave. I wonder if its because I didn't vac properly? My sebo vac is a bit bulky to use on stairs and it doesn't get to the edges.



AshWhite

  • Posts: 3427
Re: Spm
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2012, 02:18:11 pm »
Joe, use the crevice tool on the stairs is what I do.

Try running over cleaned stains with a bonnet to reduce chance of wicking back.
Carpet Cleaning http://www.floors2show.co.uk
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david@zap-clean

  • Posts: 684
Re: Spm
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2012, 05:34:19 pm »
Carpets still look grubby even after shockwave. I wonder if its because I didn't vac properly? My sebo vac is a bit bulky to use on stairs and it doesn't get to the edges.

Crevice tool and stair beater bar extension...
David @ ZapClean
www.zap-clean.com

Fran84

  • Posts: 269
Re: Spm
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2012, 06:13:45 pm »
Joe,

Some traffic lanes will still remain visible after even the best cleaner has tackled it.

'Traffic lane grey' is what I call it.


Carpet Dawg

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Spm
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2012, 06:57:04 pm »
All went balls up.

 5 minutes after rinsing the stains re-appeared.



I re-did it with Shockwave and they have gone again. Hopefully this time for good.

I still can't help but wonder if it would have been better with Powerburst.

Carpets still look grubby even after shockwave. I wonder if its because I didn't vac properly? My sebo vac is a bit bulky to use on stairs and it doesn't get to the edges.




Carpet Dawg

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Spm
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2012, 07:00:06 pm »
Wonder how long that post would last on cleantalk... :-X

garry22

Re: Spm
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2012, 07:05:43 pm »
Joe, SPM is already boosted so you should not need extra Soluboost.

Micro splitters work better with agitation so the more you do the better it should be HOWEVER it will need to be very gentle on cream wool or you will pull lumps out.

As said above, the words silk purse and sows ear come to mind. Sometimes, they don't look perfect, despite you doing your best.

*Hector*

  • Posts: 9265
Re: Spm
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2012, 07:06:36 pm »
Wonder how long that post would last on cleantalk... :-X

Naughty naughty Tony  :P :P
Everyday this forum slips further from God.  :'(

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Spm
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2012, 07:59:45 pm »
Joe,
With respect, SPM is a Pre-spray and as such is designed to loosen a wide range of soils, which is does brilliantly in my experience. But it is not a spotter which are designed to deal with a far narrower and sometimes very specific types of stains. If it doesn't get a stain out it doesn't mean it hasn't worked, it simply means you need to apply a more specialised type of stain removal agent. Often a customer can tell you what the stains is but if not you can often tell by the look, touch or colour of it to narrow it down. Powerburst also has its limits, so seeing the problem as a Pre-spray failure issue will not solve the problem. Better to extract the area and if the stain is still there then treat it with a more specialised spotter..
Simon

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Spm
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2012, 08:07:17 pm »
One of the reasons I like SPM is you rarely have to spot, but then I also have alot of flushing power and heat.

I like to put a fair bit down, give it a good scrub and if somethings still there give it another spray. If it don't come out after wanding I know I need a spotter be it solvent, acid etc.

If you have had a go at TL with SPM and shockwave it ain't going to get any better, however wait till it's dry before passing judgement.
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

Joe W Brown

  • Posts: 217
Re: Spm
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2012, 11:58:54 pm »
Joe,
With respect, SPM is a Pre-spray and as such is designed to loosen a wide range of soils, which is does brilliantly in my experience. But it is not a spotter which are designed to deal with a far narrower and sometimes very specific types of stains. If it doesn't get a stain out it doesn't mean it hasn't worked, it simply means you need to apply a more specialised type of stain removal agent. Often a customer can tell you what the stains is but if not you can often tell by the look, touch or colour of it to narrow it down. Powerburst also has its limits, so seeing the problem as a Pre-spray failure issue will not solve the problem. Better to extract the area and if the stain is still there then treat it with a more specialised spotter..
Simon
Ive been quite excited when I read people saying that SPM eliminates a need for a spotter most of the time.

Certainly powerburst and shockwave have reduced my need for a spotter dramatically.

I somehow need to speed things up still... Today 3 flights of stairs, 1 small room and a 3 PS (unidentified fabric, silky too the touch) took 12 hours solid work (13 including my lunchbrake)


Im so shattered. A lot of the spots and stains on the stairs I left in the end. I probably could have done much better job if id had time. I removed some paint succesfully. I gave the bolder unidentified brown/black stains a quick spray with spotx and rinsed, to not much effect...  it would have taken another few hours to treat each stain individually the way i work at the moment and im desperatly trying to speed things up. Im finding it difficult to find the line between perfectionist, obsession etc and leaving stains when they could be moved :(

3PS I ruined the arm of, trying to use a solvent spotter (rx spotter)  on an un identified black stain  In the end a gave up with the idea of spotting on it. Colour ran.  I should have tested it first, i assume.

Spotx wasn't doing anything much. I doubt mpower spotter would. Luckely the client was easy going about the arm so no insurance claim.

Stairs and landing - The traffic lanes still looked grey. The lips of the carpet looked grubby brown. It didnt seem like the Shockwaves has actually made much of a differnce at all, but the water was brown so it must have pulled something out.


Massive orange stain on a floor that has previosly been used as a workshop for a potter. i put some rust remover on it and it turned an ugly blue/orange mix. In the end i used about 7 teaspoons of oxidiser with hot water and ran an iron over it for 15 minutes. It reduced it quite a lot.

£150 for 12 hours hours work, £10 tip. It didnt feel right taking the tip as I wasnt satisfied with the job.

If anyone in Norwich area could take me out with them for a day or a few i'd be eternally grateful. Ive cleaned 200+ carpets now, but i still find it really hard at times. Especially stairs. 1 in every 2 stairs has a stain maybe.. How on earth do I treat each stain individually and not take hours and hours. :(

Joe W Brown

  • Posts: 217
Re: Spm
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2012, 12:22:58 am »
This is what the stairs looked like AFTER being cleaned twice. Once with hot boosted SPM and again with Shockwaves-

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/en-gb/#A1JtdOXmzK8Zp;D7670AF3-5D49-4E47-9F10-31556E24B8D0

Incidently, this is what the next flight down (in similar condition before clean) looked like BEFORE being cleaned-

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/en-gb/#A1JtdOXmzK8Zp;1E627A89-8F10-4F48-B9AD-0B90371442C9




Ok some of it is trick of the light, but im sure it can be seen why I was dispairing.

This is what one stair looked like during the rinse -

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/en-gb/#A1JtdOXmzK8Zp;46E273E7-5244-40A1-A20F-D507CE2B3624

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/en-gb/#A1JtdOXmzK8Zp;78958F42-2B83-44D4-8956-68E6CB0ABEE3









Jim_77

Re: Spm
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2012, 12:30:27 am »
Blimey Joe you might as well push trolleys around tesco car park for that sort of money, in fact once you take your costs out you'd be the cheapest trolley wally in the area.  Something is not right with your process.  I'm not trying to boast here... any other truckmount operator could say the same really...A couple of weeks ago I cleaned a 3-pc suite, decent sized lounge plus h/s/l in 3 hours.  Double that to 6 with a porty and there's still something drastically wrong.

What training have you done so far?  If none I'd suggest you do the conventional classroom/practical stuff at at least one place, preferably two because you'll absorb different things from different teachers.  I would go out with a couple of cleaners after "official" training and make your own judgements.  You have to remember one man's bible is another man's bulls*t so you can't let one or two peoples' ideas dictate your overall approach.

With respect it's no good blaming the chemicals.  I have yet to find a carpet that SPM can't clean and I've used 60kg of the stuff since it was launched last year ;)

Joe W Brown

  • Posts: 217
Re: Spm
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2012, 12:36:44 am »
Blimey Joe you might as well push trolleys around tesco car park for that sort of money, in fact once you take your costs out you'd be the cheapest trolley wally in the area.  Something is not right with your process.  I'm not trying to boast here... any other truckmount operator could say the same really...A couple of weeks ago I cleaned a 3-pc suite, decent sized lounge plus h/s/l in 3 hours.  Double that to 6 with a porty and there's still something drastically wrong.

What training have you done so far?  If none I'd suggest you do the conventional classroom/practical stuff at at least one place, preferably two because you'll absorb different things from different teachers.  I would go out with a couple of cleaners after "official" training and make your own judgements.  You have to remember one man's bible is another man's bulls*t so you can't let one or two peoples' ideas dictate your overall approach.

With respect it's no good blaming the chemicals.  I have yet to find a carpet that SPM can't clean and I've used 60kg of the stuff since it was launched last year ;)


Im not blaming the chemicals. Im not blaming anything. Im very aware something is wrong though.

Ive completed 2 courses with Derek Bolton, through cleansmart. 1 general cleaning and 1 spot and stain.

They where very good, but I had a lot of theory afterwords and still no idea about the best method to clean a stair carpet really!

 I think your right about on the job training. Ive been trading for 6 months now with a full diary of work recently, so you'd think id be a bit more confident by now.


I wonder if I mixed spm wrong earlier. It was very hot water 15ml per litre, shook well. The water was luke warm by the time I reached the bottom half of sprayer mind.



Jim_77

Re: Spm
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2012, 12:37:17 am »
Oh and just another tip - those stains that magically disappear when you pre-spray... remember the old saying, if it looks too good to be true it probably is ;)

What's happening is the immediate cleaning action is dissolving the dirt that's stuck to what is causing the problem.  You have not removed the problem ;)  The problem is something tacky/oily/sticky.

The way to deal with these bits is to let your spray lance dwell a little longer and wet those bits up a bit more, and in some cases you will want to get a hand brush and give them some pretty good agitation to really work the product in..  Two reasons for doing this:  firstly with the added moisture & agitated little bit of carpet you'll be able to recognise the patches when extracting and give them MUCH more flushing with the wand, and secondly the larger amount of pre-spray will soak down a bit further.  You're probably dealing with something that has soaked right down n to the backing so you need to apply appropriate force to get it out.

Use a hand tool if necessary to extract, for some extra grunt.

dan paton

  • Posts: 492
Re: Spm
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2012, 12:40:11 am »
is it your ocd joe . the punter gave u a £10 tip so they were happy with the job . you cant get every carpet perfect but the punter was happy so i dont see where the problem is . didn't the punter question why it took u 13 hours ?

Joe W Brown

  • Posts: 217
Re: Spm
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2012, 12:40:30 am »
Oh and just another tip - those stains that magically disappear when you pre-spray... remember the old saying, if it looks too good to be true it probably is ;)

What's happening is the immediate cleaning action is dissolving the dirt that's stuck to what is causing the problem.  You have not removed the problem ;)  The problem is something tacky/oily/sticky.

The way to deal with these bits is to let your spray lance dwell a little longer and wet those bits up a bit more, and in some cases you will want to get a hand brush and give them some pretty good agitation to really work the product in..  Two reasons for doing this:  firstly with the added moisture & agitated little bit of carpet you'll be able to recognise the patches when extracting and give them MUCH more flushing with the wand, and secondly the larger amount of pre-spray will soak down a bit further.  You're probably dealing with something that has soaked right down n to the backing so you need to apply appropriate force to get it out.

Use a hand tool if necessary to extract, for some extra grunt.

Thanks for the advice Jim.

It was stairs so I was using hand tool anyway. My jets seem to have gone funny though. Lifted a few inches off the carpet it is spraying out maybe 30cm to each side. 150psi. Maybe this was not helping things today.


Joe W Brown

  • Posts: 217
Re: Spm
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2012, 12:45:00 am »
is it your ocd joe . the punter gave u a £10 tip so they were happy with the job . you cant get every carpet perfect but the punter was happy so i dont see where the problem is . didn't the punter question why it took u 13 hours ?
i dont know if it is ocd :(


He didnt question as such, no.

Joe W Brown

  • Posts: 217
Re: Spm
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2012, 12:47:05 am »
Wonder how long that post would last on cleantalk... :-X
I purposely kept the topic away from that board :)

Joe W Brown

  • Posts: 217
Re: Spm
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2012, 01:06:12 am »
Joe, use the crevice tool on the stairs is what I do.

Try running over cleaned stains with a bonnet to reduce chance of wicking back.
thanks, i'll do that in future.

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Spm
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2012, 08:36:28 am »
12 Hours!!!
Joe,
You've got to try and get that down to three or so hours. Reading your post I think you problem is lack of confidence rather than a lack of will, which you clearly have in abundance and that is massively to your credit.

You are using a pre-spray in SPM that is generally accepted as one of the best, so if you sprayed a set of stairs, then hand brushed it in and extracted it, the result is likely to be as good as it gets and that is where I think your problem lies, inexperience mixing with a lack of confidence making you question everything you do and doubtless having you re-clean things that are no better the second time around.

Simon

AshWhite

  • Posts: 3427
Re: Spm
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2012, 09:13:41 am »
For what it's worth, I find stairs often look better after they've dried (because of the way the moisture collects at the nose).
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Joe W Brown

  • Posts: 217
Re: Spm
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2012, 10:11:00 am »
Oh and just another tip - those stains that magically disappear when you pre-spray... remember the old saying, if it looks too good to be true it probably is ;)

What's happening is the immediate cleaning action is dissolving the dirt that's stuck to what is causing the problem.  You have not removed the problem ;)  The problem is something tacky/oily/sticky.

The way to deal with these bits is to let your spray lance dwell a little longer and wet those bits up a bit more, and in some cases you will want to get a hand brush and give them some pretty good agitation to really work the product in..  Two reasons for doing this:  firstly with the added moisture & agitated little bit of carpet you'll be able to recognise the patches when extracting and give them MUCH more flushing with the wand, and secondly the larger amount of pre-spray will soak down a bit further.  You're probably dealing with something that has soaked right down n to the backing so you need to apply appropriate force to get it out.

Use a hand tool if necessary to extract, for some extra grunt.

Thanks Jim. I just re-read this post and it makes lots of sense.

jim mca

  • Posts: 827
Re: Spm
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2012, 10:27:24 am »
Joe

What do you have for aggitation

Joe W Brown

  • Posts: 217
Re: Spm
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2012, 11:05:51 am »
Duo. Im saving up for a rotary.

jim mca

  • Posts: 827
Re: Spm
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2012, 06:38:38 pm »
Joe

You are doing well at the hard part of the business getting work so be happy I would get a proper crb
before a rotary unless you are doing commercial spm is good stuff try to get out with somebody as you
only need a bit of confidence speed comes with practice

neil 47

  • Posts: 1345
Re: Spm
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2012, 06:58:47 pm »
Joe you are trying  to hard to impress yourself , we did a 4 bed house with a break in under 2 hours today.

id give you a couple of tips but all these will slate me , and you  so worried that you would need counselling after cleaning our way .

if youd bonneted those stains would,nt of come back.

your a buissnes man first cc second its a numbers game forget this one quick and move on


Neil
IICRC