Ninja problem back again 6th time!

« **on:** May 20, 2012, 04:38:07 pm »

2 weeks ago I collect my ninja from ashby,from an on going problem since last august,pump works great but leaks
after a time,they have had it back now 6 times since last august,just cost me £150 used it just 3 hours
and its gone again!leaking the trade discreptions have said to contact them back if this carrys on,its the service of goods act which it looks like I will do, I have gave them plenty of chances,so it goes back to them on monday again,

when the machine works its great,but they have got problems with the 400psi for sure,I am going nuts!

« **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2012, 04:54:48 pm »

Sorry to hear that mate, im glad I have the 135psi machine as it seems to be running brilliantly!

« **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2012, 05:07:44 pm »

Hi Jon I had one years ago there great! its just when you have had the 400psi it makes life so
much easy faster,today had c****y resturant greas fat,nice hot water cut right in it,custy pleazed,
then I spotted the dreaded leak at the bottom again from the pump.I opened her up put my hand by pump
and sure as its that again,at me witts end now

as it only was repaired on the 1 may done 3 hours since,
we simply dont have the work

« **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2012, 05:54:31 pm »

My 400 ninja had one leak from an internal pipe corroded, and one power cable broke down internally,but have to say in the 4 years I have had it , very pleased with performance, and most times used at full psi.
The steam mate is particularly impressive.
Still use as back up or for upholstery jobs.

Must be very annoying when in your situation terry,plus you lose confidence when you pitch up to do the job!

Mr B

« **Reply #4 on:** May 20, 2012, 06:18:45 pm »

Terry

Is the leak definatly coming from the pump head?

Have you had the motor swaped out? (The motor that drives the pump head.) << if thats not working properly I would take an educated guess that it might be wearing the pump down super quick.

How about the cam bearing? has that been changed? and lubed up?

Are Ashby giving you a new pumphead each time or just replacing the washers/spaces/orings inside the pump?

Tony

« **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2012, 06:20:16 pm »

Also, you getting any lose in pressure?

« **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2012, 06:31:36 pm »

thanks for reply,firstly the machine was like new when I got it not one year old! second this is the second pump head they have fitted,since november last year,I have now spent since last august on this same problem £518
trading standereds I might well be calling again I have a ref num now and logged the case,just emailed ashby and told them this,as a last resort I have gave them a chance,I will call trading standerds if I get no joy,there is no pressure loss whatsoever
just leaks!

the fact is the pump they put in the ninja is not made by ashby Derek told me this himself,not the answer I was looking for,he is trying to cop out again! :

« **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2012, 06:58:30 pm »

Well of course it isn't made by them, the same way as most components in cars aren't made in the car factory

I'm certainly no fan of Ashbys but they have at least made some attempts to help you out, even though they had no warranty obligations to you as a second hand purchaser of the machine.

You maintain this protest of the machine being barely a year old when you bought it, but someone could ruin a pump in an hour. You could wear a pump out in 6 months or less if you do a high volume of work.

Pumps & heads are consumable parts, why not just stop making your own life difficult and fit the machine with a different brand/model of pump, if this particular one seems to be no good?

Sorry but it seems like you love a good whine just for the sake of it

« **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2012, 07:02:15 pm »

More than likely its a Pumptec pumphead. Nothing wrong with Pumptec pumps.

I have a strong feeling it might be the motor thats wearing the pump down. And/or a dodgy cam bearing! Those motors are build to last, but i'm not too sure how long they are rated for. I have done close too 1600 hours on my airflex and still has the same motor on it. Over 2 years.

I usually change the cam bearing the same time i change the pumphead. It might last longer but think better safe than sorry, plus its only £15 or something.

A pumphead should last 500 hours as long you run water through it at the end of the day. i.e. dont let it lie with any cleaning solutions in the sytem over night. or let it run dry!

« **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2012, 07:04:06 pm »

Terry its not fair you have that problem, i think Jim should swap with you for his truckmount and then you will have a decent machine to clean with. The Ninja will go well with Jims SS Uph tool for his work

« **Reply #10 on:** May 20, 2012, 07:04:22 pm »

not really jim just want a reliable machine,how would you feel,ie since last august I have now spent with ashby
over the same problem! £518,not so funny now is it!whine over that!

thats why trading standerds have gave me a ref number now!

but I hope they will solve there crap pump problems :

« **Reply #11 on:** May 20, 2012, 07:12:18 pm »

Id say the only thing Ashbys make is the steammate , the Ninja body is a century 400 i presume ..

As for fitting something else ... up to 220psi you can get simple diaphragm pumps
Above that id say its 99% pumptecs , exception i can think of is new Mytee M5 with ' general ' triplex plunger pump .... made by interpump group i think , so interpump Uk im sure would pair one with a 1/2 HP motor if asked . Probably a better pump than the pumptec .

« **Reply #12 on:** May 20, 2012, 07:47:50 pm »

well mine is a pump tec

« **Reply #13 on:** May 20, 2012, 07:53:38 pm »

Terry
Sick with unger less complicate

« **Reply #14 on:** May 20, 2012, 08:03:05 pm »

Hi Len agree

« **Reply #15 on:** May 21, 2012, 01:50:03 pm »

well had a good chat with Derek today at ashby I must say he pointed out that he does not use the so called china
pumps as some one put it, :

and hopfully they are now going into this to really seek out what is going on with my pump

in fairness the ninja is a very good machine and cleans very well,I will be gutted to have to sell
this,as it stands me in £518 for pump repairs ::)that wont go away $:-\$ I have known Derek for many years
so I like to think his word is his bond..

« **Reply #16 on:** May 21, 2012, 04:56:47 pm »

How could you contemplate selling that machine on to another victim unless you discount for new pump

« **Reply #17 on:** May 21, 2012, 06:23:21 pm »

Maybe you are using it too fast.....

« **Reply #18 on:** May 21, 2012, 07:22:38 pm »

Everything aside , Derek I've found to be very helpful and polite.

That's it

Mr B

« **Reply #19 on:** May 21, 2012, 07:25:19 pm »

yes I agree Derek is just that,but thats not fixing my pump problem,so I hope this time they do,how many goes at
it do you need? :

« **Reply #20 on:** May 21, 2012, 07:30:10 pm »

Did you mention the motor to him? hopefully his tech will test it out....

« **Reply #21 on:** May 21, 2012, 07:33:21 pm »

Terry - this is Jase, i spoke to you on the phone about a month ago about these problems as i had also sufferred from a leaking pumptec head and was pulling my hair out

Mine continued to leak after i spoke to you, but is now hopefully sorted - i think you have the same problem.

Basically, the pumptec pumps are top quality, they dont just leak after a few weeks for no reason. I explored all the normal routes as you did with just temporary bouts of fixing the leak and then having drips again a few weeks later. I knew something else in the set up was causing this, i couldnt just get unlucky with so many heads/kits leaking.

What happened with mine was the regulator which adjusts the pressure of the pump (on mine its a big brass bolt that screws in and out to adjust and is located on the out hose from the pumphead) wasnt working properly - it was slightly seized. I could still adjust pressure, and i was still getting backflow to the clean tank fine, but the seizing was still enough to mean there was too much pressure building in the pump head. After a few weeks, this would just cause enough pressure to unseat one of the Orings in the head and cause it to leak. I greased the regulator piston and found i could sense the flow had improved, so i then opened up the pump head and found that one Oring had unseated. I then opened up the other pump head i had and found the same Oring unseated.

I placed the Oring back, got a regulator kit to replace the plunger and seal in that and all has been good since - better flow, pressure AND NO LEAKS.

I hope that makes sense - basically i think you need to get the regulator on the Ninja checked/replaced as i would bet my last quid you are getting the same as i was - too much pressure build up in the pump head pushing a seal out of place and causing a leak shortly after.

Its not your pump mate, dont keep getting new heads/pump head seals, it wont work

« **Reply #22 on:** May 21, 2012, 07:43:01 pm »

^^ Good shout!

« **Reply #23 on:** May 21, 2012, 08:24:50 pm »

Prochem recommend lubricating the o-ring on the regulator every 50 hours but that’s on a TM or more on porty methinks

Terry

As you are in to burning rubber you must have some lubricant to try out before parting with more hard earned cash

Mr B

Just thought of it orifice = magnet if it is (blue tack, oxford) never panic Mr Mainwaring Mr LPG is more local

« **Reply #24 on:** May 21, 2012, 08:46:12 pm »

so funny

new look yes I done all what you said to no avail

you think ashby would know what to do,dont you! even today Derek claims of great pump heads er 400psi ones :

but really 6 times since August 2011 , wtf
is really going on, I know its not me Derek likes to push the blame on everyone but his machines,I have the full back up of trading standerds on this case! I just want the machine to work I told Derek today I love me ninja please
sort it out

« **Reply #25 on:** May 21, 2012, 10:25:39 pm »

Terry, you need to take a breather mate and read my post, i am telling you new information which will solve your problem, i never knew about the regulator seizing when i spoke to you on the phone, this is all new.

I agree, Ashbys have let you down, they should be checking whats causing the leak, not simply replacing the after affect.

Get them to check the regulator, stop getting so wound up about it mate and find out whats going on fella or you will never solve this. Dont get angry, get sorted

« **Reply #26 on:** May 21, 2012, 11:35:53 pm »

« **Reply #27 on:** May 22, 2012, 07:52:29 am »

I think NLC could well be right about this that was the reason the pump on my ninja leaked . The regulator was jammed causing the psi to zoom up to 600psi .hope you get it sorted Terry .

Dave

« **Reply #28 on:** May 22, 2012, 06:30:30 pm »

not being funny but you think Ashby should know there stuff without me saying someone off cleanitup says :

I dont mean that in a funny way,if they cant sort this out,this has been the same prob since August last year,
I say no more

but Derek is quick to blame me,as if I dont know what I am doing,I laughed in his face sorry,but dont F'@@@ insult me in that way! is what I said, so lets see what they come up with now,this machine is less than 2 years old and done hardly much work its mint condition,in out! I like Derek but 6 times back come on! :

and £500 later! who is the mug!

« **Reply #29 on:** May 22, 2012, 06:49:30 pm »

Come on Terry you have had some real good advice why not use it thats what this forum is really good for .Wether or not you are fedup with it all it's got to be worth following up if it solves your proble

Tony

« **Reply #30 on:** May 22, 2012, 07:04:13 pm »

Hi Tony I do agree! but!there problem there machine ,my ferking money that gets wasted!
I only operate it not repair it, I think you love Derek or a soft spot

:

when your not in my situation
everyone is full of answers, good sound advice I must admit really and very much think the feedback is great!

when your parting with your money its not so funny...

« **Reply #31 on:** May 22, 2012, 07:16:38 pm »

Terry

There is a company I know of when you take/send the machine to them the regulator is done as a matter course. Really cant comment on Ashby’s only had one service done by them that was years ago it passed the pat test other than that £160quid

Don’t think of you being a mug, gullible possible but more in line of a masochist (of the emotionally abused type and nothing to do with rubber)

« **Reply #32 on:** May 22, 2012, 07:35:40 pm »

yes I agree!

scott and sons at st Albans I have spoke with them and they said I sholud not be having
this prob,as this machine has got history with Ashbys,its not as if I took it elsewhere first as I have know them for many years,but do now feel some what let down as to why they are having probs solveing there very own machine,
after 6 goes at it

I really think the machine is great thats why I am trying so hard to stay with it,only so
much you can take though

I am starting to think theres not a single carpet machine on the market today,
thats trouble free,brand new or otherwise $:-\$ I have had quite a few :

when your buying top end of the market
you just want reliability thats it :

« **Reply #33 on:** May 22, 2012, 08:11:26 pm »

Terry,
I got rid of a Ninja 400 psi nearly 3 years ago because I was having the same problems.

As my previous post on this, I called Pumptec in the US.....they said:
The motor is underpowered and is not mached to the head.

The issue I was having is that the bearings were wearing out on the motor; therefore causing the motor spidle to run out of true with the drive bearing and the result was premature wear on the seals.

heres an example:
I was pretty p1ssed off with repalcing pump head seals.....the motor had stopped and the pump was leaking....including the motor was corroded due to the leak.
Replaced with new head seals and new motor....not cheap! 3 months later motor had again stopped and pump leaking (remember everything is brand new).

This time I put new seals in the head and put new capacitor on the motor. I think one of the issues is that the capacitor breaks down after a while. MACHINE SOLD due to not being able to bear the continual costs of repairs.

Another example:
Then purchased a 600 psi Airflex...same head different motor ie 1/2 horsepower (much much bigger).
3 years later....zero motor problems (Cleansmart says they have not had one motor back for repair in this time).
This machine is running most days of the week. Every 6 to 8 months I will need to replace the piston and seals and offset drive bearing, just par for the course.

So there it is. Pumptec say the design is at fault and the same head running with a different motor has no issues.

« **Reply #34 on:** May 23, 2012, 07:38:32 am »

wow thanks for that one! :

« **Reply #35 on:** May 23, 2012, 08:37:36 am »

terry isnt having problems with the motor - it isnt blowing seals after months, its blowing seal after hours

i agree that motor is under powered but terry has got a pressure problem, but hey ho - if he wants to live with it and not listen then thats up to him!!! keep getting new heads mate and moaning about Ashby's eh!!

pumptec heads are quality, they dont leak for no reason and replacing them isnt solving the problem when they keep blowing every few hours/weeks

« **Reply #36 on:** May 23, 2012, 08:44:47 am »

The pump head may have a certain pressure rating on it. This is the max operating pressure for sustained running. If the outlet is blocked or the regulator is not working the pressure will build up until either the motor stops through sheer resistance or seals will blow, usually the latter. Pressures well over 1000psi can occur depending on motor HP.

« **Reply #37 on:** May 23, 2012, 09:41:09 am »

carpet guy was your pump a white one because Derek said they were a problem,but the motor thats in mine now
is supplied by pumptec complete

new look I will ask them to check the regulater thanks!

machine still with them!
but pressure gauge would say more than 400psi which it dont? but they said they will check it!

« **Reply #38 on:** May 23, 2012, 01:33:55 pm »

pressure gauge wont say more than 400 psi, it measures the pressure in the regulator not the pump head itself which is part of the problem, all will look ok, you will still be able to adjust the pressure but the pressure in the head is too great, pushing out an o ring

all they have to do is take the head apart carefully so they can see how the o rings are placed when it comes apart, it only takes one to be slightly pushed off its little ingress to make the pump head leak

« **Reply #39 on:** May 23, 2012, 04:48:02 pm »

thanks new look but according to derek it will show higher pressure on the gauge

it is only set at 400psi
any thing higher or say 600psi will damge the machine,thats there words anyway,but he assures me they will
:

::

« **Reply #40 on:** May 23, 2012, 06:40:42 pm »

Hey New Look

How often do you suggest changing the regulator pin?

Also, how do you remove that wee white plastic disc thats lodged at the bottom of the pipe? that comes with the regulator kit? Its located behind the regulator pin.

thanks
tony

« **Reply #41 on:** May 23, 2012, 07:17:19 pm »

Hi Carpet Dawg - not sure what machine you have mate but after my experience i will grease the plunger every month and change it atleast every 12 months. I always thought they were ok until they started to drip which meant the seal was going but its amazing how that little part can have a massive knock on with the pump if it starts to seize. Just use some good teflon grease on it - its a 5 minute job that could save a lot of hassle and certainly pays to get to know your own machine and work on it yourself. Certainly doesnt pay to not even try to understand your machine and moan about it to everyone else when it doesnt work :

As regards the plastic seal - there is a tool you can use but if you are careful you can get it out with a decent length screw. If you go on Cleantalk they have a video for it - http://cleantalk.co.uk/threads/overhauling-pressure-regulator.11695/

If you go on the USA Pumptec website they have loads of info and videos on there too.

Just while i get a chance as well - a big up to Nick at Solutions, he was the one that eventually pointed me in the right direction with my pump - amazing how someone 250 miles away can address something over the phone because of their knowledge of their machines (Scorpion) when someone like Ashbys have their Ninja back so many times in their workshop and still can't sort it.

Guess it pays to buy from the right place

« **Reply #42 on:** May 23, 2012, 07:20:44 pm »

agree with you new look! :

« **Reply #43 on:** May 23, 2012, 07:47:11 pm »

Terry

I really rate the 135psi don’t rate there 400 (used but not owed) believe it was done in house re the rage we want more could be wrong (what’s with the flow control

ant got that on my 600psi nor my TM)

Oh it’s not scotts

Have had two powr-flites the latest one black max both totally used and abused at work then TLC before she goes to bed at night

Tony

Never changed regulator pin on any my machines except on a mates machine he had the part it made no difference to the pump.

Turn on your vacuums or dental pick

« **Reply #44 on:** May 23, 2012, 08:40:26 pm »

:

anyone understand that above?

« **Reply #45 on:** May 23, 2012, 08:59:36 pm »

Cheers mate. I'll give it a bash on the weekend. I've ordered a regulator kit.

« **Reply #46 on:** May 23, 2012, 09:00:53 pm »

Len has his own language, you need to learn it

to fully understand

« **Reply #47 on:** May 23, 2012, 10:00:19 pm »

Len

had power flite black max spent 800 mls running back to Amtech with problems been there done it!
that was over 18 months,one prob after another,great people to deal with I really must say top after service!
but I say as I find ::)and the machine was not used every day vac problem heat problem pump problem,pump hose
completly breaking off from the crimped pipe coming from the pump,and so on :

had enough! the machine great when it worked! :

« **Reply #48 on:** May 23, 2012, 10:37:23 pm »

all i can say Terry is good luck, i had problems for 5 months and i know your pain, it makes you realize you are on your own to some extent and you have to find a solution yourself

good luck with it and i hope you stop leaking soon, if i were you i would ring Nick at World of Clean and get some sound advice off him, he knows these pumps like the back of his hand

« **Reply #49 on:** May 23, 2012, 10:50:40 pm »

I put google translate on Len's post and it came up with nothing it just couldn't understand it

but to be fair to him he's a really nice guy perhaps he's misunderstood.

Shaun

« **Reply #50 on:** May 24, 2012, 06:39:04 am »

Looking at the post on Cleantalk it occurs to me that the larger pumps require a regular service.

Looks a bit complicated with all those o rings.

Without the service perhaps problems occur hence the need for JB to post instructions on Cleantalk

So Terry your problem has educated us all, shame no one mentioned it before.

One of the problems buying Secondhand besides getting other peoples problems is you not always get the machine manual .

« **Reply #51 on:** May 24, 2012, 08:48:33 am »

Ian - the pumps arent that complicated, if you are careful when you open up the head the o rings are simple to swap.

Just about all the newer machines will now run these types of bigger pumps so getting use to them is good as they are now the 'norm.'

I think they are better than the older smaller pumps as the good motors will last longer, the heads are bigger and easier to work on and being able to service them means the heads arent a throw away item but will last much longer with a service say every 2 years or so.

John posted the video on Cleantalk as it was helpful for us all, thats what they do over there!!!

« **Reply #52 on:** May 24, 2012, 10:06:13 am »

There is one pump that you appear to have to take out loads of o rings perhaps it is an older one .

But we are indebted to you for pointing out this issue and pointing towards a Solution

« **Reply #53 on:** May 24, 2012, 01:27:02 pm »

As said- Pumptec do very good videos, you just have to make sure you have the pump type number as some are very different but others quite similar but with small differences.

« **Reply #54 on:** May 24, 2012, 05:29:01 pm »

Terry - forgot to mention, one way you could tell if your regulator is at fault -

- if you are running at 400psi, when you come to couple a hand tool to your solution hold, at 400psi you shouldnt be able to couple it without depressurizing (pressing the trigger on the hand tool) first. If you are able to just attach it without squeezing the trigger first, it means even though your are showing 400psi, you havent got it in reality

When the regulator was seizing on my Scorpion, i would test the pressure with a gauge and at 220psi i could couple easily with no resistance. When i greased the regulator plunger and tried to couple at 220psi i couldnt with some hand tools without squeezing the trigger. A seized regulator affects the flow/pressure and like i say if you run at 400psi all the time, unless the Ninja is plumbed totally differently to the Scorpion, you should have massive resistance when coupling to tools

« **Reply #55 on:** May 26, 2012, 09:11:22 pm »

Thanks yes agree with you,well picked it up on friday they put a new pump head 3rd one! regulater I used it
on friday 3 hours solid no problem so far,but I have been here before, job on monday then on holiday on thursday to cuba 2 weeks, so who knows :

they did say dont put nothing in the tank :

they are still in a way trying to put
the blame on me. if it goes this time well ,I have put it all to them motor :

etc I think the ninja really is a great
machine,and thats the only reason I am trying to stay with it, watch this space well I hope not :

while ashbys
have not charged me for this pump, so far it has cost me £500 I do think they are trying, so I really hope this is the end of the 400spi pump problems

thank you to all that have gave great advice on this thats what this place is for

I speak as I find feels like this is never ended,but trust me the last thing I want is to say,guess whats happened today guys! :

I have got a trading standerds record with this,but if all goes well that will be
in storage.just want a machine to work thats it..have a great weekend!! sun relax

« **Reply #56 on:** May 28, 2012, 10:42:01 pm »

so far so good no leaks

off to cuba thursday 2 weeks all in :

95 plus thanks to our daughter! christmas present!
bit late I know but hey ho!sun sea sharks diving :

what a gift ,come back to not so great Britain :

I do hope it
picks up for everyone really $:-\$