[Moderator David@stives]

Its fact, no pay only honoraria, they do employ a general secretery but she isnt on the board,

[williamx]

there are 7 pages of the bryan dolby thread, i suggest he would be the man to ask... i am supprised none took the chance during that thread

.

The FWC exist for professional window cleaners only, it’s one way you can have independent representation that easily distinguish you.

and what pray is a Professuional Window Cleaner?

You’re not required by law to have to have public liability insurance or personal accident, so why bother with them, if you have them? (Don’t say because a few of my commercial customers want me to have them, that’s just rubbish) Same goes for any H&S training or certificates you’re not required to have them, do you have them? Same goes for any associations, are you a member of any?

Point is you can do away with them all, so why don’t you? You probably only need vehicle insurance and to declare your money.

It’s not for me or you to decide what being professional or professionalism is, it something that exists outside of any individual’s ego, although there are exceptions that raise the level of standards.

I have all of the above, I am a member of the Guild of Window Cleaners, and I am not a member of the Fed.

I am not a member of the “fed” because I do not see what the “fed” can offer that is different to the “guild”.

None of my customers has ever heard of the “Guild” which is not surprising since its only been around for a couple of years, but they also have never heard about the “fed” either.

For any trade body to work, its benefits to its members have to be worthwhile, if you look at The Market Traders Federation, http://www.nmtf.co.uk/index.php?id_cpg=6 you will see that the benefits it offers its members far out stretch what anyone is offering Window Cleaners.

The “fed” do offer discounts on Supplies and Insurance, but if you look around, you will be able to obtain both of these cheaper than the “fed” offer.

It has been said that the “fed” only support and stand for window cleaners that are its members and if you are not a member, you are accused of being un-professional, if that’s the case, are the top 20 window cleaning companies in the UK who have incomes in the millions, who are not members of the “fed” un-professional?.

Any window cleaning trade body has to represent all window cleaners, both members and non-members, if they don’t, then they are not a trade body, instead they are a window cleaning club.

At the moment the “fed” membership is only in is few thousand, yet there are thousands and thousands of window cleaners, so is it fair to say that the “fed” represent all window cleaners?, I think not.

Over the last few years the “fed” has improved but there are still those in it, who look down on us non-members, and I feel that they are still years behind, what the window cleaning trade needs.

Can the “fed” or another group come forward to represent and offer what most window cleaners want is still un-clear, but hopefully it will happen, unto that day, my money will be staying in the bank un-less they can convince me otherwise.

And while I am not a member of the “fed” I am still a Professional Window Cleaner.

[Moderator David@stives]

Pure Hydro

Name the top 20 companies who are not members ?

Also you cant compare a club to government recognised trade association.

If you look at the window cleaning guidance leaflets on the GOV websites you will see they were wrote in conjunction with the fed

If you look at the NVQ's they were wrote in conjuntion with the fed who also sanctioned them

If you look at the one day IOSH window cleaning with ladders and wfp again sanctioned and written by the fed.

Safety in window cleaning video written and produced by the fed.

Regular meetings with the HSE again , the fed

Britains biggest window cleaners sat on a committee , again the fed.

Booklets for your staff, The Fed

Dedicated trade show run every year, the fed

Sponsors of the Cleaning show and Windex , The Fed.

I could go on

What more do you want and what exactly does the Guild offer or what have you ever done

[Moderator David@stives]

Forgot to say.

ID cards
Corporate ads in yellow pages
Bi - monthly magazine
professional advice in all aspects of window cleaning
free legal helpline

[williamx]

I have built up a very sucessful and profitable cleaning company.

At first I was quite content to be just be a sole trader, but since January I have discided to expand my business.

My 1st full time member of staff starts in 6 weeks, which means that I have gained over £50000 worth of new business in the worst recession this country has seen ever.

I will be starting a new cleaner every 12 weeks thereafter until I reach a turnover of £1 million pounds.

All of this is no pipe dream, it is a reality, I have everything in place for this to happen from accountants and solicitors to marketing, HR and IT companies.

All of this is being achieved without the help, advice or imput of either the "fed" or "Guild".

[DASERVICES]

Well done William.

I have just been asked to tender for a major contract but didn't even apply for it. Just came through the post. They got my the details off the SLWCN site.

The big dilema I have is I do not want to employ , so local lads will be job sharing their employees with us if I win this contract. For me it has been word of mouth that built up my business.

The FED have done some very good work of lately and I feel they are very strong on the commercial marketing side but could do more marketing on the domestic side.

[Moderator David@stives]

Hydro

That wasnt the arguement you were making.

Your arguement was you couldnt see what the Fed offered different to the guild.

Not look at me I have increased my turnover by £50k.

[williamx]

David

I do not compare the Fed and the guild as the same today, mainly because the fed has had over 50 years head start on the guild, but when the fed started they were no diferent than the guild is now.

So in 50 years who is to say that the guild will not have overtaken the fed.

My main points is that the fed, say they represent all window cleaners, yet if you are not a member then they do not represent you.

With other trade orgisnations, they represent all in that field, not the lucky few.

There are a lot of posts that say you will not achive anything from window cleaning or are professional enough unless you join the fed, I have proved that that is not the case.

At the moment all that I can see of being in either the fed or guild is to use a name and logo for your stationary.

You have said that the fed have been in talks with the HSE, yet nothing seems to happened since the release of the 2005 WHAD, which is not being enforced at all.

All the other thing that the fed are doing, the guild or any other body could also do, and as for ID's well that is very easy to do.

[Moderator David@stives]

Quote from Hydro

"I am not a member of the “fed” because I do not see what the “fed” can offer that is different to the “guild "




If you are going to argue at least stick to what your arguing about

[williamx]

Quote from david

What more do you want and what exactly does the Guild offer or what have you ever done.

The guild offers a logo and fancy name and help for window cleaners fom window cleaners without the attacks that others seem to hand out.

What more do I want? I would like the fed or guild or anyone to offer me and other window cleaners what other trade groups offers their members, The Market Traders Federation is a perfect example of what most if not all window cleaners would want.

I would like the fed to answer questions instead of attacking the questionairs.

I would like the fed to make the HSE act on the 2005 WHAD, and if they are not going to act then they should remove the WHAD.

I would like the fed to promote window cleaners to every household and business in the Uk.

There are many other wants as well.
 
 
 

[trevor perry]

me personally i think the fed is doing a decent job, our industry has changed dramatically over the last seven to eight years and the fed is doing a lot to keep window cleaners informed on current guidelines and legislation true if you wanted to do this yourself you could.
  as dave as said the fed has had talks with the health and safety ,water authorities and other institutions if you where to do this on your own you wouldnt be taken seriously but because the fed represents a large number of people they are more likely to be listened to.
  i do think there is more the fed could do but they are deffinately going in the right direction and you cant change things over night, i certainly appreciate the time the commitee put in to running the organization and it must really pee them off the ones that keep moaning on what isnt being done when they themselves are not willing to give up their time to make it better.

[sgibsoncleaning]

get a representive federation into domestic customers homes is a almost impossible task. several years ago this was discussed on another forum. tv adverts newpaper adverts, can you possible imagine the cost of such a campaign. the fed could not afford to do it on what they charge so i doubt if the guild could ever think about adding this to their ideals.
corgi works as its life threatening, the market traderd federation works as a lot of markets used to insist on membership.
its left down to us to use almost scare techniques on our customers, but if you read the thread about money saving.com customers dont give a flying one.
and finaly lets face it we are a bunch of apethetic idiots, we want this and that to benifit us yet do we step foreward to do something or do we just have a go at people trying to move this profession foreward.  there are a few exceptions to this and i salute you people for trying to do something. as for the ones that just want to ridicule and find fault  then i salute you too but with less fingers

[AuRavelling79]

get a representive federation into domestic customers homes is a almost impossible task. several years ago this was discussed on another forum. tv adverts newpaper adverts, can you possible imagine the cost of such a campaign. the fed could not afford to do it on what they charge so i doubt if the guild could ever think about adding this to their ideals.
corgi works as its life threatening, the market traderd federation works as a lot of markets used to insist on membership.
its left down to us to use almost scare techniques on our customers, but if you read the thread about money saving.com customers dont give a flying one.
and finaly lets face it we are a bunch of apethetic idiots, we want this and that to benifit us yet do we step foreward to do something or do we just have a go at people trying to move this profession foreward.  there are a few exceptions to this and i salute you people for trying to do something. as for the ones that just want to ridicule and find fault  then i salute you too but with less fingers

What he said +1

[Clive McDonald]

I agree too, but gibbo has to stop knocking the guild, and dave has to stop refering to it as a club if they don't want tit for tat comments about the fed and it's history.

The market traders fed does include public liability in the fee, and mr gibson is right markets have to insist on this insurance by law, so it does make a compeli=ling reason to join. Many of the wc fed benefits are only of late and it has to be remembered that this is a business.It exists to make a profit not to do good in the world.

The market traders fed members also have rows and make accusations, so to that degree they are very similar.If they can flog you a bolt on service such as van and stock insurance they will do. Some say they no longer exist to help the members.Sound familiar?

[matt]

ive missed this thread as ive been away this weekend

What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?

from threads in the past on here

NO conscience must be high up on the list  

[Clive McDonald]

If all the people on the committee were do gooders you wouldn't get anywhere. Several on here would be good for different reasons- matt, dave, and tosh for instance.

I was on a committee. I stood up at an agm and ranted with the result that the old lot got booted and i became secretary. I lasted only 9mths but effected massive changes for very many people. I got a bit obsessed (not unlike this forum), but it was a terrific education, and the power was intoxicating (not unlike this forum).

What did surprise me was how much i enjoyed working with other people, how a proper meeting with an agenda can arrive out well thought out decisions, and how rewarding it was to flesh out and articulate other peoples ideas.

I stopped doing that and started wc as a second business.

[Clive McDonald]

And i miss it. It was pretty thankless, i was the best they'd ever had in hundreds of years of  existence and the rest were all over achievers too, but for the most part it was unremarked.

So in a way when i come on here and try to use you all as a sounding board this is my attempt at a directors meeting. I don't always get the flattery and praise off you lot that perhaps i deserve, but very often it helps me to clarify my own thoughts.

[matt]

I was on a committee. I stood up at an agm and ranted with the result that the old lot got booted and i became secretary. I lasted only 9mths but effected massive changes for very many people. I got a bit obsessed (not unlike this forum), but it was a terrific education, and the power was intoxicating (not unlike this forum).

Ive done a stint on a few committee's, my first was at 14 at my local fishing club, at the AGM i stood up and ranted that the club ( which was 70 soemthing years old ) was being run by OAP's and stuck in he past, the result was 3 out of the 7 committee members were 14 year olds ( my mates ) the club then would fish are the spots we wanted, the comp rules changed, it became a modern club, after 2 years the change was complete, i then stepped down from the committee

the fed issue is a strange 1, and people have e.mailed me snippits of what went on, we know people on here who stepped down as a result of something the committee did, that doesnt make me want to join when they pull stunts like they have

[Clive McDonald]

When you have the power it's so easy to get drawn into the fixing and the fiddling.These people aren't bad, just mediocre. Even now, stripped of power and impotent, they still wave the chains of previous high office about their heads and make fatuous comments....

The views expressed are my own and not those of the british government, even though i was prime min ister for several years.......And by the way the guilds rubbish.

[Moderator David@stives]

Clive

I reckon the FED are registered as a "Not For profit company"