Tosh

What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« on: April 03, 2009, 09:33:22 pm »
There's a couple of FWC committee guys on this forum, and I'd be interested to find out what you have to do to get on the committee?

Mr Formby

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2009, 09:34:59 pm »
For you , be a member

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2009, 09:40:21 pm »
So, being a member is the first criteria; what's the second?

sgibsoncleaning

  • Posts: 930
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2009, 09:41:37 pm »
be a member would be a start.... yet another fed bashing thread 

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2009, 09:44:43 pm »
be a member would be a start.... yet another fed bashing thread 

Why is this a 'fed bashing thread'?  It's an honest question.  If I want to join an organisation, I want to know how it works.

Why are you being so defensive/offensive?

sgibsoncleaning

  • Posts: 930
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2009, 09:47:08 pm »
there are 7 pages of the bryan dolby thread, i suggest he would be the man to ask... i am supprised none took the chance during that thread

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2009, 10:00:32 pm »
The Byran Dolby thread was interesting; but there was such a wide variety of topics covered I'm not surprised this wasn't mentioned.

Other interesting items in that post were the payments made to committee members; I think Steve said they were paid £150 a day plus expenses for hotels and stuff; and that's worth some further investigation; especially when Dave said they were a 'non profit organisation'; insinuating that they did their 'duties' out of the goodness of their hearts'.

But I'd still like to know how the FWC committee members became FWC committee members.

It seriously is a serious question.


Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2009, 10:12:55 pm »
there are 7 pages of the bryan dolby thread, i suggest he would be the man to ask... i am supprised none took the chance during that thread

I would've; but the post was locked.

I'm still interested in finding out what the criteria is for being a FWC Committee Member is though.

If these guys are meant to representing 'us', how do they get 'elected'?


Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2009, 10:14:26 pm »
Tosh

After 12 months of membership , you can put yourself forward to sit on the board then they vote on it, in lean times this is all you have to do, in times of increased competition for a seat , you would probably have to show wht you have to offer.

As for not for profit, i didnt insinuate anything, they only get paid on fed business ie, £150 a day for meetings which covers your loss of earnings and expenses.

There is a difference between getting paid for the job and getting honoraria for attending meetings.


Window Washers

  • Posts: 9036
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2009, 10:18:15 pm »
I see into the future, and I can see you being on the committee Dave  ::)
If your not willing to learn, No one can help you, If you are determined to learn, No one can stop you ;)

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2009, 10:28:29 pm »
Ian

I think sitting on any committee is a poison chalice, a bit like the England managers job.

All you get is shot down in flames every time you want to help your fellow man, or treated with suspicion and have your integrity questioned.

Do i really want my self through all that,  hhhhhhhmmmmmmmm  NO

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2009, 10:29:38 pm »
I wouldnt mind being a moderator on CLeanitup though, i heard that jobs similar but not as bad

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2009, 10:30:48 pm »
I see into the future, and I can see you being on the committee Dave  ::)

So it wasn't just me thinking that Dave was 'selling us out'.  I suspect he's made 'friends' with a FWC committee member  because his posts have recently devolved too:

Oh, isn't the FWC great.

Oh, Hasn't the FWC changed.

Oh, Hasn't the FWC good for winning big contracts.

Oh, Good, don't be professional; more work and money for me.

Oh, I'm going to be a millionaire 'cos I'm a member of the FWC.

Oh, Join the FWC and use it as a marketting tool; and become a millionaire.

Blimey! ;D

To be honest, I've been a bit harsh with Dave here, but the sentiment remains extant.

johns window kleen

  • Posts: 406
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2009, 10:35:22 pm »
there are 7 pages of the bryan dolby thread, i suggest he would be the man to ask... i am supprised none took the chance during that thread


I did actually, I asked Bryan "How would FED membership benefit me?"
He replied visit the website , which I did earlier this evening.

Intersting stuff on there, puts some of the earnings posters on here to shame really. Looks like part of its agenda is to attract  new people into the profession, by stating earnings of upto £1K PER WEEK, train them up, get them as members, call them trusted professionals, and dissacotiate themselves from the non-members who are portrayed as unshaven , ciggie smoking cowboys.
Or did I read it wrong??
Please FED members tell me if I am wrong?


Still I wouldnt rule out joining at some stage.

johns window kleen

  • Posts: 406
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2009, 10:39:41 pm »
Sorry.
Sgibson said the first sentence and I didnt wanna make it look like he was FED bashing.{Which im not doing honestly}
 I'm still getting the hang of the inserting quotes bit. Might have to do an NVQ course to get good at it. ;D

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2009, 10:43:01 pm »
Tosh

Didnt i say the same things when people were saying Safecontractor was rubbish, didnt i defend it exactly the same way.

I have had lots of encouraging emails the last few days, theres are the opinions that mean something to me.

If i ever do decide to join the fed committee that has nothing to do with what i try to advise people on.

I have told people the same thing since i ever told anyone anything.

People ask for advice and i give it, people ask me how i have done things and  i have told them,

My business ethos is showing my professionalism, and  I know that this has won me most of my business.

One last thing you dont have to listen to my advice, nobody does


R W C

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2009, 10:46:03 pm »
I bet being a mod of the biggest cleaning forum has helped to get all them right ups in those magazines etc, ive never understood all the hype about people getting certificates and completing courses, the woman from safe contractor must ring me up everyy week asking me to join,

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2009, 10:49:35 pm »
RWC

Where did it once say anything to do with being a mod, ask Tosh it doesnt mean diddly pooh being a mod.

I got the write ups because i emailed every single publication i could think of, not one of them knew i was a mod.

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2009, 10:52:43 pm »

If i ever do decide to join the fed committee that has nothing to do with what i try to advise people on.

I knew it from your pro FWC posts.

How perceptive am I?

 ;D

Personally, I don't care if you want to be a member of the FWC, girl guides, or the Monster Raving Loony Party.

I believe your skill is in your marketing; and if you do get on the FWC committee that will just be another marketing tool for you.

As I say, how perceptive am I?




Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2009, 10:55:53 pm »
Tosh

What are you on about, being on a committee is more of an hindrance to your business than anything.

Marketing is down to your own personal accumin, if i were that bothered about the marketing angle i would of kept the APWC alive where i had 100% control, i could of even give out free memberships to keep the numbers up.

R W C

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2009, 10:58:20 pm »
RWC

Where did it once say anything to do with being a mod, ask Tosh it doesnt mean diddly pooh being a mod.

I got the write ups because i emailed every single publication i could think of, not one of them knew i was a mod.

Fair play to you dave my dig isnt at you but to those who suck up and do things because of who certain people are in the industry, these people arent silly and as soon as they got your email and it said from Dave Morris of st ives they would of known exactly who you are, these people view the forum day in and day out just look at past posts when someone has said something negative about there item they will be straight on the forum defending it, ive seen this from ionics, brodex, face lift, fwc, simply business, a-plan,  the list is endless, If someone like myself had emailed them saying id got safe contractor approved certificate like you say it would mean diddly pooh,

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2009, 11:03:30 pm »
RWC

Not a chance. I could give you all my hard earned gained contracts and you would get exactly the same results.

I got in my local news papers and ones that cover over 70 miles, how do you account for that, do they come here too.




johns window kleen

  • Posts: 406
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2009, 11:11:32 pm »
Dave, as a member of it, please answer my post about  the FED Website, which as I see it , subtly portrays all non members as unshaven, ciggie smoking, untrustworthy, incompetent cowboys.

It smacks of elitism, and to my mind puts established W/C off of joining, because it is insulting to us. That is a crying shame really.

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2009, 11:13:51 pm »
Guys,

Can we please stop 'Dave Bashing'; and get back to my original post;!

I'm interested in who 'they' are, when Dave said in the highlighed text:

Tosh

After 12 months of membership , you can put yourself forward to sit on the board then they vote on it, in lean times this is all you have to do, in times of increased competition for a seat , you would probably have to show wht you have to offer.

Who is it within the FWC that vote if you get on the FWC committee or not?

Who exactly are 'they'?

R W C

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2009, 11:19:34 pm »
Guys,

Can we please stop 'Dave Bashing'; and get back to my original post;!

I'm interested in who 'they' are, when Dave said in the highlighed text:

Tosh

After 12 months of membership , you can put yourself forward to sit on the board then they vote on it, in lean times this is all you have to do, in times of increased competition for a seat , you would probably have to show wht you have to offer.

Who is it within the FWC that vote if you get on the FWC committee or not?

Who exactly are 'they'?

Sorry tosh im a little confused as to who is dave bashing?

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2009, 11:25:35 pm »
Me?

 ;D

johns window kleen

  • Posts: 406
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2009, 11:26:14 pm »
Yeah Tosh im not sure what youre saying I aint Dave bashing at all.
I actually admire the guy and he is one of the most helpful peeps on here.

I was only asking a question about perception of the site. Not bashing anyone intentionally.

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2009, 11:36:54 pm »
And I was only asking who votes the FWC Committee members onto the committee?

This is an important question; worth knowing before you join any organisation

How do the heirachy get elected?


chris@c.m.s

  • Posts: 1556
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2009, 11:37:28 pm »
Tosh sorry mate but it was only a couple of years ago at Birmingham that you, Dave, shiner, and Ian, and myself met up shared a few pints and got on ok,   Dave as the rest of you all seemed great guys, Why are you attacking him now are you jealous of how his business has moved on since?    
Sussex by the sea

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2009, 11:49:35 pm »
Hi Chris,

I'm not attacking Dave in the least.  I just have this feeling; for some daft reason; that he's using this forum as another marketing tool.

You know what I'm like.  If I see someone pretending to be a 'happy customer', yet they're really a supplier, it annoys me.  And what I seem to be seeing with Dave is, is that he's wanting to be an FWC Committee Member, he's made friends with Brian Dolby, and now he's pushing the FWC on this forum like one of those dodgy suppliers.

I could be wrong, I'm a Geordie; I'm usually wrong.  I'll even admit to being wrong even when I'm not.

 ;D

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2009, 11:53:37 pm »


Tosh I dont use this forum for nothing, you have got me totally wrong, i help people out of the goodness of my heart. Just ask anyone, i have helped hundreds over the years i have enven helped local window cleaners set up wfp and never ever asked anyone for anything in return.

Jon maybe it looks elitist, but isnt that why we join these things so we can give the impression we are elite ?

Maybe, for me anyway , everyones different.

Tosh "they" being all the committee members, If i recall correctly there is about 8 or 9,  If you get a majority vote, you are in. so 5 votes should get you in.

I will leave it to the fed for the final answer, as i am just summising.

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2009, 12:02:11 am »


Tosh I dont use this forum for nothing, you have got me totally wrong, i help people out of the goodness of my heart. Just ask anyone, i have helped hundreds over the years i have enven helped local window cleaners set up wfp and never ever asked anyone for anything in return.

Jon maybe it looks elitist, but isnt that why we join these things so we can give the impression we are elite ?

Maybe, for me anyway , everyones different.

Tosh "they" being all the committee members, If i recall correctly there is about 8 or 9,  If you get a majority vote, you are in. so 5 votes should get you in.

I will leave it to the fed for the final answer, as i am just summising.

Dave,

I apologise if I've offended you; I'm sorry; it's Friday evening, I've had a shandy and feel hard as nails.  As you know I'm from North Shields.

But with regards to the committee, is there a non-elected board who vote who the committee members in?  If so, how did the board evolve and who're they comprised of?

I would be really surprised if any of the general FWC members don't know how the FWC organisation works; someone must know.

I wouldn't hand my cash over to some organisation which has a hint of 'self serving' about it.


chris@c.m.s

  • Posts: 1556
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2009, 12:14:43 am »
The way I see it the FWC at some point had some failings Dave started the APWC with others, leaving some including myself split over what trade body to join, personally I wasn't going to take a gamble with the APWC until they came of age,  probably a lot of others thought the same and coupled with the Fed getting their act together was probably their downfall, I guess Dave has had to eat some humble pie over that "Oh the ups and downs" ;) The fact that he has now thrown his weight behind the Fed can only be good in my book, the profile of the trade does need lifting lets hope they can do it.      
Sussex by the sea

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2009, 06:46:13 am »


Tosh I dont use this forum for nothing, you have got me totally wrong, i help people out of the goodness of my heart. Just ask anyone, i have helped hundreds over the years i have enven helped local window cleaners set up wfp and never ever asked anyone for anything in return.

Jon maybe it looks elitist, but isnt that why we join these things so we can give the impression we are elite ?

Maybe, for me anyway , everyones different.

Tosh "they" being all the committee members, If i recall correctly there is about 8 or 9,  If you get a majority vote, you are in. so 5 votes should get you in.

I will leave it to the fed for the final answer, as i am just summising.

Dave,

I apologise if I've offended you; I'm sorry; it's Friday evening, I've had a shandy and feel hard as nails.  As you know I'm from North Shields.

But with regards to the committee, is there a non-elected board who vote who the committee members in?  If so, how did the board evolve and who're they comprised of?

I would be really surprised if any of the general FWC members don't know how the FWC organisation works; someone must know.

I wouldn't hand my cash over to some organisation which has a hint of 'self serving' about it.



A shandy?
You must have drunk a whole distillery to have reached those conclusions about Dave.
I'm wondering if Saturday morning will arrive with an acutely embarassed Tosh smarting from a hangover cringeing as he reads his posts from the previous night.

There is good cause for suspicion about so called "satisfied customers" who have only made a couple of posts but I hardly think Dave falls into that category.

So where do I send my invoice Dave?   :)

sgibsoncleaning

  • Posts: 930
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2009, 07:13:30 am »
I see into the future, and I can see you being on the committee Dave  ::)

So it wasn't just me thinking that Dave was 'selling us out'.  I suspect he's made 'friends' with a FWC committee member  because his posts have recently devolved too:

Oh, isn't the FWC great.

Oh, Hasn't the FWC changed.

Oh, Hasn't the FWC good for winning big contracts.

Oh, Good, don't be professional; more work and money for me.

Oh, I'm going to be a millionaire 'cos I'm a member of the FWC.

Oh, Join the FWC and use it as a marketting tool; and become a millionaire.

Blimey! ;D

To be honest, I've been a bit harsh with Dave here, but the sentiment remains extant.


unbelievable.... "selling us out"  what planet are you on.

Bryan_Dolby

  • Posts: 330
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2009, 08:08:27 am »
Join the FWC (pay money)

Nomination for candidates have to in by 28 Febuary prior to AGM
Send synopsis in on experience and what you expect to achieve

If there is a 3 nominees and only 2 places then a vote takes place

Send voting papers out to all members with synopsis and they cast there vote
All votes opened at AGM checked and verified by independant people

Election complete

It took me 2 years to get on the council
Going to be away till Monday  for any more questions

keep giving David hassle he deserves it.

Rather than giving crap to me

Bryan


Bryan Dolby
( Member F.W.C.)
My opinons are my own and nothing to do with the federation of window cleaners

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2009, 11:50:29 am »
keep giving David hassle he deserves it
Then no crap to me

Bryan

I will; I enjoy it.  ;D

But I'm still non the wiser; I'll have a look at the FWC website and see if that shows what the organisation is.

williamx

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2009, 02:06:19 pm »
there are 7 pages of the bryan dolby thread, i suggest he would be the man to ask... i am supprised none took the chance during that thread

.

The FWC exist for professional window cleaners only, it’s one way you can have independent representation that easily distinguish you.



and what pray is a Professuional Window Cleaner????

ftp

  • Posts: 4694
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2009, 09:18:24 pm »
If anyone can understand that last sentance then please enlighten me  ???

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2009, 10:10:42 pm »
I haven't got any specific info but committees have two guys who do the work, chairman and secretary. (treasurer does a little bit)

Because these positions involve work (preparing minutes, setting agenda, admin), these tend to be paid positions.

If you know for an absolute fact that this is not the case, then fair enough, but this is often how it works.

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2009, 10:14:02 pm »
Its fact, no pay only honoraria, they do employ a general secretery but she isnt on the board,

williamx

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2009, 12:06:03 pm »
there are 7 pages of the bryan dolby thread, i suggest he would be the man to ask... i am supprised none took the chance during that thread

.

The FWC exist for professional window cleaners only, it’s one way you can have independent representation that easily distinguish you.



and what pray is a Professuional Window Cleaner????



You’re not required by law to have to have public liability insurance or personal accident, so why bother with them, if you have them? (Don’t say because a few of my commercial customers want me to have them, that’s just rubbish) Same goes for any H&S training or certificates you’re not required to have them, do you have them? Same goes for any associations, are you a member of any?

Point is you can do away with them all, so why don’t you? You probably only need vehicle insurance and to declare your money.

It’s not for me or you to decide what being professional or professionalism is, it something that exists outside of any individual’s ego, although there are exceptions that raise the level of standards.


I have all of the above, I am a member of the Guild of Window Cleaners, and I am not a member of the Fed.

I am not a member of the “fed” because I do not see what the “fed” can offer that is different to the “guild”.

None of my customers has ever heard of the “Guild” which is not surprising since its only been around for a couple of years, but they also have never heard about the “fed” either.

For any trade body to work, its benefits to its members have to be worthwhile, if you look at The Market Traders Federation, http://www.nmtf.co.uk/index.php?id_cpg=6 you will see that the benefits it offers its members far out stretch what anyone is offering Window Cleaners.

The “fed” do offer discounts on Supplies and Insurance, but if you look around, you will be able to obtain both of these cheaper than the “fed” offer.

It has been said that the “fed” only support and stand for window cleaners that are its members and if you are not a member, you are accused of being un-professional, if that’s the case, are the top 20 window cleaning companies in the UK who have incomes in the millions, who are not members of the “fed” un-professional?.

Any window cleaning trade body has to represent all window cleaners, both members and non-members, if they don’t, then they are not a trade body, instead they are a window cleaning club.

At the moment the “fed” membership is only in is few thousand, yet there are thousands and thousands of window cleaners, so is it fair to say that the “fed” represent all window cleaners?, I think not.

Over the last few years the “fed” has improved but there are still those in it, who look down on us non-members, and I feel that they are still years behind, what the window cleaning trade needs.

Can the “fed” or another group come forward to represent and offer what most window cleaners want is still un-clear, but hopefully it will happen, unto that day, my money will be staying in the bank un-less they can convince me otherwise.

And while I am not a member of the “fed” I am still a Professional Window Cleaner.

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2009, 12:13:45 pm »
Pure Hydro

Name the top 20 companies who are not members ?

Also you cant compare a club to government recognised trade association.

If you look at the window cleaning guidance leaflets on the GOV websites you will see they were wrote in conjunction with the fed

If you look at the NVQ's they were wrote in conjuntion with the fed who also sanctioned them

If you look at the one day IOSH window cleaning with ladders and wfp again sanctioned and written by the fed.

Safety in window cleaning video written and produced by the fed.

Regular meetings with the HSE again , the fed

Britains biggest window cleaners sat on a committee , again the fed.

Booklets for your staff, The Fed

Dedicated trade show run every year, the fed

Sponsors of the Cleaning show and Windex , The Fed.

I could go on

What more do you want and what exactly does the Guild offer or what have you ever done

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2009, 12:19:09 pm »
Forgot to say.

ID cards
Corporate ads in yellow pages
Bi - monthly magazine
professional advice in all aspects of window cleaning
free legal helpline

williamx

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2009, 01:47:56 pm »
I have built up a very sucessful and profitable cleaning company.

At first I was quite content to be just be a sole trader, but since January I have discided to expand my business.

My 1st full time member of staff starts in 6 weeks, which means that I have gained over £50000 worth of new business in the worst recession this country has seen ever.

I will be starting a new cleaner every 12 weeks thereafter until I reach a turnover of £1 million pounds.

All of this is no pipe dream, it is a reality, I have everything in place for this to happen from accountants and solicitors to marketing, HR and IT companies.

All of this is being achieved without the help, advice or imput of either the "fed" or "Guild".


DASERVICES

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2009, 02:41:06 pm »
Well done William.

I have just been asked to tender for a major contract but didn't even apply for it. Just came through the post. They got my the details off the SLWCN site.

The big dilema I have is I do not want to employ , so local lads will be job sharing their employees with us if I win this contract. For me it has been word of mouth that built up my business.

The FED have done some very good work of lately and I feel they are very strong on the commercial marketing side but could do more marketing on the domestic side.

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2009, 02:49:40 pm »
Hydro

That wasnt the arguement you were making.

Your arguement was you couldnt see what the Fed offered different to the guild.

Not look at me I have increased my turnover by £50k.


williamx

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2009, 04:09:41 pm »
David

I do not compare the Fed and the guild as the same today, mainly because the fed has had over 50 years head start on the guild, but when the fed started they were no diferent than the guild is now.

So in 50 years who is to say that the guild will not have overtaken the fed.

My main points is that the fed, say they represent all window cleaners, yet if you are not a member then they do not represent you.

With other trade orgisnations, they represent all in that field, not the lucky few.

There are a lot of posts that say you will not achive anything from window cleaning or are professional enough unless you join the fed, I have proved that that is not the case.

At the moment all that I can see of being in either the fed or guild is to use a name and logo for your stationary.

You have said that the fed have been in talks with the HSE, yet nothing seems to happened since the release of the 2005 WHAD, which is not being enforced at all.

All the other thing that the fed are doing, the guild or any other body could also do, and as for ID's well that is very easy to do.

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2009, 04:22:53 pm »
Quote from Hydro

"I am not a member of the “fed” because I do not see what the “fed” can offer that is different to the “guild "




If you are going to argue at least stick to what your arguing about

williamx

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2009, 04:58:07 pm »
Quote from david

What more do you want and what exactly does the Guild offer or what have you ever done.

The guild offers a logo and fancy name and help for window cleaners fom window cleaners without the attacks that others seem to hand out.

What more do I want? I would like the fed or guild or anyone to offer me and other window cleaners what other trade groups offers their members, The Market Traders Federation is a perfect example of what most if not all window cleaners would want.

I would like the fed to answer questions instead of attacking the questionairs.

I would like the fed to make the HSE act on the 2005 WHAD, and if they are not going to act then they should remove the WHAD.

I would like the fed to promote window cleaners to every household and business in the Uk.

There are many other wants as well.
 
 
 

trevor perry

  • Posts: 2454
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2009, 05:00:01 pm »
me personally i think the fed is doing a decent job, our industry has changed dramatically over the last seven to eight years and the fed is doing a lot to keep window cleaners informed on current guidelines and legislation true if you wanted to do this yourself you could.
  as dave as said the fed has had talks with the health and safety ,water authorities and other institutions if you where to do this on your own you wouldnt be taken seriously but because the fed represents a large number of people they are more likely to be listened to.
  i do think there is more the fed could do but they are deffinately going in the right direction and you cant change things over night, i certainly appreciate the time the commitee put in to running the organization and it must really pee them off the ones that keep moaning on what isnt being done when they themselves are not willing to give up their time to make it better.
better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove any doubt

sgibsoncleaning

  • Posts: 930
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2009, 05:12:37 pm »
get a representive federation into domestic customers homes is a almost impossible task. several years ago this was discussed on another forum. tv adverts newpaper adverts, can you possible imagine the cost of such a campaign. the fed could not afford to do it on what they charge so i doubt if the guild could ever think about adding this to their ideals.
corgi works as its life threatening, the market traderd federation works as a lot of markets used to insist on membership.
its left down to us to use almost scare techniques on our customers, but if you read the thread about money saving.com customers dont give a flying one.
and finaly lets face it we are a bunch of apethetic idiots, we want this and that to benifit us yet do we step foreward to do something or do we just have a go at people trying to move this profession foreward.  there are a few exceptions to this and i salute you people for trying to do something. as for the ones that just want to ridicule and find fault  then i salute you too but with less fingers

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23653
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2009, 05:18:04 pm »
get a representive federation into domestic customers homes is a almost impossible task. several years ago this was discussed on another forum. tv adverts newpaper adverts, can you possible imagine the cost of such a campaign. the fed could not afford to do it on what they charge so i doubt if the guild could ever think about adding this to their ideals.
corgi works as its life threatening, the market traderd federation works as a lot of markets used to insist on membership.
its left down to us to use almost scare techniques on our customers, but if you read the thread about money saving.com customers dont give a flying one.
and finaly lets face it we are a bunch of apethetic idiots, we want this and that to benifit us yet do we step foreward to do something or do we just have a go at people trying to move this profession foreward.  there are a few exceptions to this and i salute you people for trying to do something. as for the ones that just want to ridicule and find fault  then i salute you too but with less fingers

What he said +1
It's a game of three halves!

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2009, 06:13:49 pm »
I agree too, but gibbo has to stop knocking the guild, and dave has to stop refering to it as a club if they don't want tit for tat comments about the fed and it's history.

The market traders fed does include public liability in the fee, and mr gibson is right markets have to insist on this insurance by law, so it does make a compeli=ling reason to join. Many of the wc fed benefits are only of late and it has to be remembered that this is a business.It exists to make a profit not to do good in the world.

The market traders fed members also have rows and make accusations, so to that degree they are very similar.If they can flog you a bolt on service such as van and stock insurance they will do. Some say they no longer exist to help the members.Sound familiar?

matt

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2009, 06:18:37 pm »
ive missed this thread as ive been away this weekend

What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?


from threads in the past on here

NO conscience must be high up on the list  :o :o :o

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2009, 06:34:37 pm »
If all the people on the committee were do gooders you wouldn't get anywhere. Several on here would be good for different reasons- matt, dave, and tosh for instance.

I was on a committee. I stood up at an agm and ranted with the result that the old lot got booted and i became secretary. I lasted only 9mths but effected massive changes for very many people. I got a bit obsessed (not unlike this forum), but it was a terrific education, and the power was intoxicating (not unlike this forum).

What did surprise me was how much i enjoyed working with other people, how a proper meeting with an agenda can arrive out well thought out decisions, and how rewarding it was to flesh out and articulate other peoples ideas.

I stopped doing that and started wc as a second business.

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2009, 06:48:09 pm »
And i miss it. It was pretty thankless, i was the best they'd ever had in hundreds of years of  existence and the rest were all over achievers too, but for the most part it was unremarked.

So in a way when i come on here and try to use you all as a sounding board this is my attempt at a directors meeting. I don't always get the flattery and praise off you lot that perhaps i deserve, but very often it helps me to clarify my own thoughts.

matt

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2009, 07:19:19 pm »


I was on a committee. I stood up at an agm and ranted with the result that the old lot got booted and i became secretary. I lasted only 9mths but effected massive changes for very many people. I got a bit obsessed (not unlike this forum), but it was a terrific education, and the power was intoxicating (not unlike this forum).


Ive done a stint on a few committee's, my first was at 14 at my local fishing club, at the AGM i stood up and ranted that the club ( which was 70 soemthing years old ) was being run by OAP's and stuck in he past, the result was 3 out of the 7 committee members were 14 year olds ( my mates ) the club then would fish are the spots we wanted, the comp rules changed, it became a modern club, after 2 years the change was complete, i then stepped down from the committee

the fed issue is a strange 1, and people have e.mailed me snippits of what went on, we know people on here who stepped down as a result of something the committee did, that doesnt make me want to join when they pull stunts like they have

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2009, 07:43:52 pm »
When you have the power it's so easy to get drawn into the fixing and the fiddling.These people aren't bad, just mediocre. Even now, stripped of power and impotent, they still wave the chains of previous high office about their heads and make fatuous comments....

The views expressed are my own and not those of the british government, even though i was prime min ister for several years.......And by the way the guilds rubbish.

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2009, 07:47:32 pm »
Clive

I reckon the FED are registered as a "Not For profit company"


Steve Lowe

  • Posts: 177
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2009, 07:55:41 pm »
Hi Dave

Whatever the fed is registered as they do make a profit .  I like you agree that the fed have acheived some good things BUT when you join there commitee your opinions may well be different when you see how it is run. Thats all i will say on this as the post could well get out of hand.

Steve
Steven J Lowe MBICSc

Lowes Cleaning Services Limited
www.lowescleaning.com

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2009, 07:59:34 pm »
Steve

They do make a profit , but only for the good of the members.

Nobody owns shares do they ?

matt

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #62 on: April 05, 2009, 08:02:54 pm »
Dave, you must have been around when the last oooo aaaarrrrr took place


sgibsoncleaning

  • Posts: 930
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2009, 08:07:46 pm »
i was not knocking the guild. i was simply making a point about funds. its going to cost millions to get the message into everyones home. if the fed could not afford to spend that much neither could the guild on the price it charges. its just  simply a finacial fact. i appriceate the guild is in early days but when the APWC started they had some bright ideas and some new thinking but our apathy put what could have been a good think down.
the only solution i think could be a possiblity is compulsory licences for us all. with our fees being used to get the message into homes and clamping down on unlicenced window cleaners............but ity aint ever going to work because every penny we would pay would be swallowed up into council funds. i read the thread about being threatened by another W/C. the fellow had 40 blokes working for him and wasnt licenced so it is not being policed.
i think the only knock i have given the guild was to say i did not like the logo in a thread asking for opinions. which if i remember rightly the founder had a go for me commenting on  it.

matt

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #64 on: April 05, 2009, 08:10:01 pm »
oh and the other issue i have about the FED

when a member asks questions that the committee doesnt like

that members is stalled, and when its time to renew, the renewal seems to allways be lost, then they are told they are not welcome

people say they represent professional window cleaners ( its members ) , is that a way to act ? ? ? ?

Steve Lowe

  • Posts: 177
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #65 on: April 05, 2009, 08:10:58 pm »
Steve

They do make a profit , but only for the good of the members.

Nobody owns shares do they ?

Hi Dave

No i dont think anyone has shares in the fed. I was told that if ever the fed shut the money etc would be shared amongst its members. As for it being used for the good of the members i guess it depends on what they are spending the money on.  It would be good to see new blood join the commitee but without the older ones leaving it would be a waste of time.

Steve
Steven J Lowe MBICSc

Lowes Cleaning Services Limited
www.lowescleaning.com

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #66 on: April 05, 2009, 08:13:29 pm »
Matt

I was, but i think i was hood winked, i investigated a few things myself and couldnt see much wrong, everything was above board and legal, maybe some could see a tiny moral wrong doing , but all entirely legal

There was a lot of "oh the fed wont show me there accounts"  and "oh they are selling the building"

If you read between the lines 12 months before that there was a move to start the apwc, in fact the name was already decided, there was also questions asked on a trade association forum about the best course of action to start a window cleaners trade association.

It took me a long time to suss things out, but they are nowhere near as black as some would have you believe.


Matt
Would you bow to trouble causers, i certainly wouldnt.

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #67 on: April 05, 2009, 08:15:09 pm »
Dont forget there was some real power crazy people around at the time

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #68 on: April 05, 2009, 08:18:59 pm »
As far as i can see they do everything right, i may have to join, i wish it was cheaper and i don't fancy having a day off to attend a course some idiot has dreamed up (mentioning no names).

The sour grapes on my part are two fold really.
1/ on this forum we are all equal and judged only on the posts we make and the quality of our ideas. To be self important and pompous is daft when quite a few 'big shots' post on here but see no need for the other window cleaners to take on the role of serfs.
2/The guild was started by a group of like minded wc's and has been executed brilliantly so far.(i'm a member but not part of running it)


Not for profit has tax advantages,
I didn't take to phil either, he was a windbag, and probably a troublemaker.Fiogging double glazing must suit him.

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #69 on: April 05, 2009, 08:21:04 pm »
Dont forget there was some real power crazy people around at the time
didn't someone say just recently that they were chairman for 13 yrs, and then don't give him crap, what's in the past stays in the past, alls good now.

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2009, 08:23:40 pm »
Clive

The offers still there if you get chance this week give me a call

Dave

sgibsoncleaning

  • Posts: 930
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #71 on: April 05, 2009, 08:28:24 pm »

I didn't take to phil either, he was a windbag, and probably a troublemaker.Fiogging double glazing must suit him.
he was looking bored on the BWCA stall at the nec show,

matt

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2009, 08:30:25 pm »
Matt

I was, but i think i was hood winked, i investigated a few things myself and couldnt see much wrong, everything was above board and legal, maybe some could see a tiny moral wrong doing , but all entirely legal




Matt
Would you bow to trouble causers, i certainly wouldnt.

Dave, i think we exchanged e.mails about it once or twice ( aswell as a fair few others )

nothing Illegal, no

BUT

ALOT more than a tiny moral wrong doing, imho it was a massive wrong doing, smacked of a closed shop with people just out to earn a quick few bucks ( and it was alot more than a few bucks )

would i bow down to trouble makers, no, especially when i was going to make alot of money

you cannot have rules and then adjust them to suit yourself , though history in this case has shown you can, and thats a shame that greed from a certain few have tarnished a cause

or course, it will now be forgotten and swept away, afterall the golden goose has layed its egg

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2009, 08:49:45 pm »
I'd certainly call you jn the future about business. I'm about to start getting my head down, a bit like hydro, and have an employee.I have just about convinced my wife that i can take one on.

I never really like talking to people on the phone, i'm more email.

For what it's worth i think you'd make an excellent fed representative because aside from anything else if it really does represent an industry that must mean people who aren't members as well, so who better than yourself (or mr giles) to have a very rounded view of what's going on in a lot of wc's heads.( including the likes of matt)

Where can it do better?
1/ take a line on licensing/buy with confidence/a scheme that would work.
2/Address best practice issues such as rainwater harvesting etc, encourage defra to give grants and education, and thereby have more clout with defra.
3/As a truly not for profit org, with not one but several lucrative income streams such as training,accreditation, etc, then the joining fees could be reduced to embrace a wider church of window cleaners.

Bryan_Dolby

  • Posts: 330
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #74 on: April 06, 2009, 07:46:05 pm »
Back to post

Join the FWC (pay money)

Nomination for candidates have to in by 28 Febuary prior to AGM
Send synopsis in on experience and what you expect to achieve

If there is  3 nominees and only 2 places then a vote takes place

Send voting papers out to all members with synopsis and they cast there vote
All votes opened at AGM checked and verified by independant people

Election complete

If nobody noninates and there is a place left the committee can co-op a person on.

Does this answer the post?
Bryan Dolby
( Member F.W.C.)
My opinons are my own and nothing to do with the federation of window cleaners

ducky

  • Posts: 600
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #75 on: April 06, 2009, 09:37:16 pm »
why join the fwc.when every tom dick and harry are useing there logo on there web site on there letter heads and getting away with it for free,i may just do the same :o   
if it cleans we will clean it

matt

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #76 on: April 06, 2009, 10:01:00 pm »
why join the fwc.when every tom dick and harry are useing there logo on there web site on there letter heads and getting away with it for free,i may just do the same :o   

 ;D ;D

it will turn into the " as seen in yellow pages " as if that makes you look better

Bryan_Dolby

  • Posts: 330
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #77 on: April 06, 2009, 10:07:41 pm »
Ducky

yes we know and trading standards are looking into it

We have quite a few cases that are been investigated

There is a fine of up £1000.00 not by us but by them and they will go to court

Anybody can help the FWC and tell us and we will look in to this thank you

Bryan
Bryan Dolby
( Member F.W.C.)
My opinons are my own and nothing to do with the federation of window cleaners


DASERVICES

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #79 on: April 06, 2009, 10:18:49 pm »
why join the fwc.when every tom dick and harry are useing there logo on there web site on there letter heads and getting away with it for free,i may just do the same :o   

Even ex committee fed members, loads of vans in fife with the fwc logo ;)

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #80 on: April 06, 2009, 11:42:00 pm »
"As seen in the yellow pages" nearly as good as "fsb Member"

ducky

  • Posts: 600
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2009, 09:00:43 am »
doug if ur on about who i think. he  has got new vans and there is no logo on them  ;)
if it cleans we will clean it

DASERVICES

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2009, 09:13:05 am »
He's got rid of them "J" reg vans then ;D

I've got a bucket load of photos of his vans from slwcn members who reported him for not being licensed. All had the FWC logo on.

From the Police report I presume he has now stopped cleaning and his sons running the business.

Bryan_Dolby

  • Posts: 330
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2009, 06:28:38 pm »
TOSH

Have i answered your question

Bryan
Bryan Dolby
( Member F.W.C.)
My opinons are my own and nothing to do with the federation of window cleaners

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2009, 06:37:24 pm »
Bryan,

You must've read my mind; since I was just in the process of typing one of my rubbish replies.

But yes, you have, but I'm still interested in how the mechanics of the organisation works.

For example, in the last organisation I was a part of, we had a Chairman, a Treasurer, then lots of other positions relevant to the running of that particular organisation (I was the Treasurer; but the Chairman banned me from reading out the accounts at our monthly meetings because he reckoned I sounded like a 'bingo caller'  >:().

Anyway, I've had a look round the FWC website and can't see who does what, if you know what I mean.

Okay, you're the Chairman, then you've got Andrew Lee who I think was responsible for Health and Safety (though I could be wrong); what's the other positions?

Purely out of interest, I have no ulterior motive.

Bryan_Dolby

  • Posts: 330
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2009, 07:06:03 pm »
Tosh

4 staff
Chairman Bryan Dolby
Vice chair and safety officer Andrew Lee
Treasure Tom Cosgrove
8 other commitee members
committee members with different experiences of  window cleaning

Bryan
Bryan Dolby
( Member F.W.C.)
My opinons are my own and nothing to do with the federation of window cleaners

williamx

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2009, 11:18:46 pm »
Tosh

4 staff
Chairman Bryan Dolby
Vice chair and safety officer Andrew Lee
Treasure Tom Cosgrove
8 other commitee members
committee members with different experiences of  window cleaning

Bryan

Bryan is this a trick answer as I can only count 3 staff yet you say there are 4?

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2009, 11:48:45 pm »
Beryl Murray and 3 other shop Girls

The  3 you count are committee members Doh !

williamx

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #88 on: April 08, 2009, 09:04:16 am »
maybe Bryan should have said

Tosh

There is 12 members on the committee
 
Chairman Bryan Dolby

Vice chair and safety officer Andrew Lee

Treasure Tom Cosgrove

plus 8 other committee members’ committee members with different experiences of window cleaning and 4 staff

Bryan
Chairperson FWC

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #89 on: April 08, 2009, 03:27:54 pm »
Does anyone know what the duties of the 4 staff and 8 committee members are?

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #90 on: April 08, 2009, 07:19:46 pm »
Hummph! no secretary, a good secretary should have an input in setting out what should be on the agenda at meetings, often at the behest of other committee members. Committees that are overly dominated by a chairman lack vision, democracy, and any kind of openess.

If you do take this on, it needs a bit of credibility and robust debate introducing.

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #91 on: April 08, 2009, 07:20:33 pm »
There is a general Secretery and thats Beryl Murray

williamx

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #92 on: April 09, 2009, 10:21:24 am »
Who makes the tea/coffee? and do they get biccies as well ;D

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #93 on: April 09, 2009, 04:47:43 pm »
Who makes the tea/coffee?;D

That duty should go to the newest committee member.

williamx

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #94 on: April 09, 2009, 05:41:05 pm »
Who makes the tea/coffee?;D

That duty should go to the newest committee member.

That should kept Dave busy ;D

Tosh

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #95 on: April 09, 2009, 06:16:35 pm »
 ;D

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #96 on: April 09, 2009, 08:55:55 pm »
I make Tea for no-one

How do you spell no-one, is it even a word

williamx

Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #97 on: April 10, 2009, 08:52:09 am »
I make Tea for no-one

How do you spell no-one, is it even a word

Its 2 words, you should have written "nobody" ;D

Terry_Burrows

  • Posts: 1643
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #98 on: April 13, 2009, 10:50:40 am »
 ;D its know won! ;D
WWW.FASTESTWINDOWCLEANER.CO.UK
GUINNESS WORLD RECORD HOLDER
BURNING RUBBER FASTER!
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF MASTER WINDOW CLEANERS.

HIGH LEVEL WINDOW CLEANERS (scrimmy)

  • Posts: 1093
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #99 on: April 13, 2009, 10:56:34 am »
yo terry, fancy a race mate?..to see who is the fastest wfp window cleaner lol 8)



 :D :D

poleman

  • Posts: 2854
Re: What have you to do to get on the FWC Committee?
« Reply #100 on: April 14, 2009, 11:04:18 pm »
There was a lot of "oh the fed wont show me there accounts"  and "oh they are selling the building"

If you read between the lines 12 months before that there was a move to start the apwc, in fact the name was already decided, there was also questions asked on a trade association forum about the best course of action to start a window cleaners trade association.

It took me a long time to suss things out, but they are nowhere near as black as some would have you believe.

That was my view about APWC think I might have said this to you at the time!! and if you rembmerd! craig just wonted apwc for just training!! and its funny! I asked him to resign! and he did!! he went and started up ClearChoice! same logo!!!

Andy