[Tosh]

I clean a street of semis (not the whole street, but a good wadge of them) and on my second job the neighbor tells me not to bother cleaning next door because she's had her house repossessed!

She owes me for two cleans, but this has never been a problem before, and once paid me six months in advance! 

The neighbor reckons that if I want paying I ought to get in the que with the rest of her creditors!  It's not a big amount of money; but the job was underpriced by my current standards; so I'm a little bit miffed.

I also hear other customers grumbling about the price of stuff; one customer who owns three houses (one they live in, one they rent, and one they've been doing up to sell ( ) says that things are so tight that they can't afford to go away camping with the kids for four days.

I didn't tell her that I'd just been away in my comfy caravan for a week!

What's happening with your customers and their finances?

[ftp]

My customers keep giving the impression that they are skint - holding back on payments and ignoring self adressed envelopes but the new cars keep popping up on their drives and several have returned from exotic holidays abroad. One underpriced customer was telling me how he was booking for a round the world flight with the missus - £16000!!!! ( his house is a tenner and they are moaners and messers).

[Roy Harding]

I have not been hit at all yet but been expecting it.

But just landed a real big nursing home and a load of bungalows in the grounds, just around the corner from one of my best jobs, so all smiles here.

But I think things will get tight.

Roy

[ftp]

I think it's going to really hit home after Christmas next year when the heating bills land on the mat.

[Roy Harding]

I think it's going to really hit home after Christmas next year when the heating bills land on the mat.

Yes I think your spot on.

Roy

[Paul Coleman]

I clean a street of semis (not the whole street, but a good wadge of them) and on my second job the neighbor tells me not to bother cleaning next door because she's had her house repossessed!

She owes me for two cleans, but this has never been a problem before, and once paid me six months in advance! 

The neighbor reckons that if I want paying I ought to get in the que with the rest of her creditors!  It's not a big amount of money; but the job was underpriced by my current standards; so I'm a little bit miffed.

I also hear other customers grumbling about the price of stuff; one customer who owns three houses (one they live in, one they rent, and one they've been doing up to sell ( ) says that things are so tight that they can't afford to go away camping with the kids for four days.

I didn't tell her that I'd just been away in my comfy caravan for a week!

What's happening with your customers and their finances?

I have had a few more cancellations than usual - though only two mentioned finance.  Another two cancelled as they are retiring and have the "time to do the windows themselves" which could also be finance.  There are another couple of custies who have mentioned several times that their workloads have dropped off a fair bit so they may end up cancelling too.  However, this is quite small compared to the work that is still trickling in.

[Wayne Thomas]

Times must be getting hard, there's more dole brigade than ever out cleaning windows in this neck of the woods all trad.

[wightsurf]

I'm still picking up work but there is a lot of trad window cleaners about. Did have a bad spell a month ago and lost a few but can't say for sure it was due to money.

[dave0123]

Hmm

think i have seen the od few more about. Could just be the usal summer idiots but not sure.

[peter holley]

iv lost 2 in the last month, worth £10 each.... but iv gained about a £100...i think things will start to even out a bit for a while...

earlier in the year predictions were that deisel would hit £1.50 a ltre by august, and yet here we are approaching august and deisel has actually gone down.... also its a housing buyers market, and where i live the market has started moving again, houses hasve started selling again.

i have also noticed that the media are making a little
less noise... i feel optomistic...ii sincerely hope that i am not wrong to be so upbeat

ok guys im waiting for the uproar

[Glyn H]

Busiest contracting week for ages - spent four days pricing new contracts both window and gutter cleaning at various locations.
Havent done any marketing they all just all contacted us.

[NWH]

I`ve got to much on but who cares,you`ve got to lose a hell of a lot of work until it would even equate to a days work.And how many of us are always saying we are behind,i`m always behind so if i lost loads it would mean for the other stuff i`d be on time every clean.

[pjulk]

I have not been affected at all always got a full workload and recently picked up some nice work from recommendations.

[cvdewsbury]

small office cancelled due to tightening finances...

a council run day centre for the elderley has had their budgets cut so have asked us to requote for cleaning on a quaterly basis rather than monthly

otherwise as normal

[karygate]

do you think the media talk people into a crisis.

[cat9921]

do you think the media talk people into a crisis.

NO, food is going up and so is the fuel, People do not need the media to tell them that  ,,,, But I think the media does not help, Don't worry karygate Adders Rinse and clean  work buy you and do not do a good job of window cleaning , you will be picking up work in no time 

[Glyn H]

The media have a policy  - keep people in FEAR of what may happen.

[Oakley Windows]

The media have a policy  - keep people in FEAR of what may happen.

That is very true (remember weapons of mass destruction? global warming? )

Also there is 24 hour news, they have to put something in it; and keep repeating it and repeating it and repeating it, we hear it again and again and again, eventually we believe it when we've heard it enough times.


I never knew there was global warming til I listened to the news, I never knew there was an economic downturn either til I listened to the same news programme.

According to my work and level of business there isnt. In fact if my business was anything to go by we'd be breaking all growth records known (a year on year growth of 25%, no country in the world achieves that).

We only believe/think theres a downturn because they tell us there is, repeatedly, just in case we forget.

[LSB]

i am still picking up new customers on a dailly basis !

however ,

i also do a fair bit of work for a contract cleaning company , all commercial ,
and some of these are not renewing their contracts , and others are re-negotiating . 

[john tomkins]

That is very true (remember weapons of mass destruction? global warming? )

Too true, and what about HIV gonna wipe out the most of the planet, and Ebola virus and Bird flu, all suddenly gone quiet.
Not doubting they are bad but just not "quite" as bad :

[WCE]

I think it depends on the services you offer. In my case - domestic is booming have had no one cancel yet (although I have just had today one customer ask for time to pay as they have been made redundant) and work still flowing in. Commercial the same in the last month alone I have added £5000 p/a of new work and again no one has canceled. However I was doing very well in build cleans and have contracts with all the major developers. The work here has just dried up overnight - no one is building much at all at the moment. This time last year I had on average £750 - 1000 worth of build cleans a week to do. This week I have a grand total of 0!  In fact this week from the 8 sites that are left (I did have 14 sites on the go but the rest have closed!) I have 1 show home to do and thats on the only site not to cut back on them. All the rest have cut down from fortnightly to monthly and one has cut right back to bi-monthly. Now thats an industry in turmoil. I am just glad that I don't have all my eggs in one basket. The company that does most of the sites in the areas general cleaning have over the last 25 years built up their business specialising in build cleans and they have gone from making very good money to being right on the verge of going bust - all in the space of a few months. I know the owners well and said to them about 18 months ago that it was silly to concentrate just on the build cleans - if something went wrong they had no back up plan. Did they listen? No. They had been going through the housing boom and like I said doing very well so they ignored my advice. Now they have hardly any work and have finally realised that they have left it too late to find other work in another sector. I give them two months max if it stays like this, then they will go bust.  So I think that it depends what services you actually provide. The key IMO to surviving the crunch is diversity- ie don't keep all your eggs in one basket.     

[cvdewsbury]

do you think the media talk people into a crisis.

yes......a mate of mine runs a couple of medium size business and was talking to his financial advisor re the property market he was told that the word in the financial world was that if no one starts panicking and the media stop whipping up things, the property market should see an upward turn in from january 09.

Again reading through the posts above very few people seem to be losing domestic customers,that tells you a lot.

[WCE]

do you think the media talk people into a crisis.

yes......a mate of mine runs a couple of medium size business and was talking to his financial advisor re the property market he was told that the word in the financial world was that if no one starts panicking and the media stop whipping up things, the property market should see an upward turn in from january 09.

Again reading through the posts above very few people seem to be losing domestic customers,that tells you a lot.

I cant see the property market having an upward turn that soon. The reason I say that is we haven't really seen the effect of the increased heating bills yet. With the increase in inflation etc and christmas the month before (And jan always being quiet anyway in the housing market) I think that if we do see an upward turn next year in then it wont be until later on in 2009. Prehaps the summer time will see it happen.   

[macmac]

What ever happened to the ALPINE pop vans?
The ones who used to come round selling soft drinks, cream soda & the likes?

Wonder if they got the boot with the last credit crunch

Anyone remember them

Tony

[windowwashers]

What ever happened to the ALPINE pop vans?
The ones who used to come round selling soft drinks, cream soda & the likes?

Wonder if they got the boot with the last credit crunch

Anyone remember them

Tony

I remember vans coming round when I was a kid, I used to collect other peoples and make 10p each retuning bottles to them, I also used to walk people from the supermarket waitrose in Watford to there cars and take trolloys back for the 10p in it. there was a lot bigger bACK THEN i STRUGGLED TO WALK HOME SOME TIMES LOL
25 years ago I was earning near on £5 a night from trolleys and about £5 a week on bottles

My mum and dad were not well off back then, I never went without anything I wanted even though life was quite hard back then if you want to make money you always can if just takes action.

[Londoner]

It was the Corona man who used to come round here selling pop. Long gone now along with the paraffin man called Reg.

The thing is that people live in a sort of cloud cuckoo land. Even though they are running into debt a lot of them still carry on with their lifestyle. they don't cut back with the holidays and the wife still has her cleaning lady and goes to the hairdresser every week.
I read a while back that BMWs and Mercs are the cars most likely to be repossed by the finance company.

A bloke I know has recently gone under in a big way. He was a taxi operator with about 20 cabs and he's had the lot repossed and is in the process of losing his house.

The significant point is that right up to the end he was acting the big man, He wears a Rolex watch and was flashing his money about down the pub.

A few months before he bought his wife a really chavvy great 4x4. Brand new, black with blacked out windows and loads of chrome.  Yet when he bought it he was in debt up to his eyeballs already. So why did he do it?

[Oakley Windows]

It was the Corona man who used to come round here selling pop. Long gone now along with the paraffin man called Reg.

And Mr Weymouth the painter and decorator 

[ftp]

You guys must be so OLD you'll be telling me about the mobile butchers van, the grocery van and the fish monger who used to park up your road! I suppose you took spangles to school too.







Mind you, we did have to lick the road clean!

[crystal]

Just had my first cancellation this year, customer posted money  through the  door with a nice  letter thanking me for the service but her husbands brother has just been made redundant and he will be cleaning them from now on
thats after five years and they aint short of moolah
talk about keep it in the family  bah   

[Darren O]

macmac i remember them they used to chase us for stealing ginger of there van but i was only about 10.The last time i seen a alpine van was about 3 years ago but they were using transits instead of the massive lorry.

[macmac]

What about the mobile video library, anyone have one of them?

The coupon man for vernons pools?

Tony

[Tosh]

The coupon man for vernons pools?

Our 'Pools Man' (when I was a kid) used to be accompanied by a local - tough nut - boxer with a big German Shephard, 'cos he kept on getting mugged.

We thought that was normal, but it's a bit like me going collecting with a body-guard.

Anyway, I picked up two £20 accounts next door to each other, two tiny bungalows just accross the road and was asked to quote for some 17th  Century house a bit further down the road.

Maybe the credit cruch isn't affecting everyone.

[DASERVICES]

Gas has just gone up 35%

So start expecting customers to start saving pennies, the one thing they will look at is window cleaning. What I tend to do is say to them instead of cancelling do you want it done every 10 weeks.

[Oakley Windows]

I find it odd that people on here say things like we're going to lose work etc etc, as the window cleaner is the first to go. IMO the holiday, the smart car, the new kitchen, the spa-pool in the garden are the first to go.

Surely its blindingly obvious that the most expensive things go first.

Window-cleaning is bomb-proof.

[dave0123]

I think gardiners will go before window cleaners.

because people like clean windows they ring you up if your late so they obv want it doing.. reason being to my eyes is they dont want to go up a ladder them sevls.

now gardens can be done by them self if they are trying to save money.

[matt]

i normally dont pick up work, its mainly because i do most of the houses in all the streets / roads i do, thus i dont get asked many times

last week i was phoned up by a lady who i used to clean for, she had moved

it is in a area i dont do, but i drive past, so its no harm to stop by, i didnt really want the work, but i said i would call in, it was  a 5 bed house with conserv, i thought what with the credit crunch coming, i thought i should take it on
i arrive, she wants insides and out done, the conserv roof, it turned out to be a half day job, then 2 others in the street ask me for a card ( time wasters as they would have just asked me to do them, not a card )

this week ive been phoned 3 times by people who have been recommended me by customers, 1 of them is a big farm house and 3 holiday homes, its about 15 mins outside my area, but looks like its a half day job aswell

[ftp]

Think i'll have to get my phone checked over - hasn't rung much this week. 

[john tomkins]

Think i'll have to get my phone checked over - hasn't rung much this week. 

No luck with that "street of gold" then

[ftp]

Nope nothing at all.    Did pick up an old rectory whilst i was there, one off and leafletted three £850,000 houses that had just been built (looked spotless though).

[Paul Coleman]

You guys must be so OLD you'll be telling me about the mobile butchers van, the grocery van and the fish monger who used to park up your road! I suppose you took spangles to school too.







Mind you, we did have to lick the road clean!

I do actually recall an ice cream man that used to come around on a bike - the non motorised type.  Mind you, I was very young.  It was probably about 1961/62 or thereabouts.

[tacky]

can u remember when rag n bone man used to give u a balloon for some rags. n salted crisps were 3d a bag  .apart from that bit of info .picking up more work than losing it .( at moment )

[macmac]

Yeah, forgot about the topic.

I've had one widow (fixed income) request 2 monthly instead of 1. Apart from that work is flooding in. never been as busy, not enough hours in the day at the mo'.

Tony

[David Slater]

The media have a policy  - keep people in FEAR of what may happen.

That is very true (remember weapons of mass destruction? global warming? )

Also there is 24 hour news, they have to put something in it; and keep repeating it and repeating it and repeating it, we hear it again and again and again, eventually we believe it when we've heard it enough times.


I never knew there was global warming til I listened to the news, I never knew there was an economic downturn either til I listened to the same news programme.

According to my work and level of business there isnt. In fact if my business was anything to go by we'd be breaking all growth records known (a year on year growth of 25%, no country in the world achieves that).

We only believe/think theres a downturn because they tell us there is, repeatedly, just in case we forget.

The papers dont want you to live in fear, neither did they invent Weapons of Mass Destruction (our government did that if you remember!) with their "dodgy dossier".

The papers didnt invent a 70% drop in mortgage approvals. Or a 35% hike in gas prices. Or a 9% hike in electric prices...or did they?

Global warming has been an issue since the 70's (remember 'The Good Life'?) It has become more of an issue today due to 'freak weather' happening on an almost yearly basis. When insurance companies refuse to quote because you live near a river or a flood plain then you know its time to sit up and take note.

If you're saying you never knew something until you read it in a paper then yes, you're probably right. (you probably never knew Gazza beat his wife until you read it in a paper).
These days news does move incredibly quickly and is disseminated around the globe almost in the blinking of an eye. Thats progress and technology....not lies and conspiracies at work.


 

[Oakley Windows]

The media have a policy  - keep people in FEAR of what may happen.

That is very true (remember weapons of mass destruction? global warming? )

Also there is 24 hour news, they have to put something in it; and keep repeating it and repeating it and repeating it, we hear it again and again and again, eventually we believe it when we've heard it enough times.


I never knew there was global warming til I listened to the news, I never knew there was an economic downturn either til I listened to the same news programme.

According to my work and level of business there isnt. In fact if my business was anything to go by we'd be breaking all growth records known (a year on year growth of 25%, no country in the world achieves that).

We only believe/think theres a downturn because they tell us there is, repeatedly, just in case we forget.

The papers dont want you to live in fear, neither did they invent Weapons of Mass Destruction (our government did that if you remember!) with their "dodgy dossier".

The papers didnt invent a 70% drop in mortgage approvals. Or a 35% hike in gas prices. Or a 9% hike in electric prices...or did they?

Global warming has been an issue since the 70's (remember 'The Good Life'?) It has become more of an issue today due to 'freak weather' happening on an almost yearly basis. When insurance companies refuse to quote because you live near a river or a flood plain then you know its time to sit up and take note.

If you're saying you never knew something until you read it in a paper then yes, you're probably right. (you probably never knew Gazza beat his wife until you read it in a paper).
These days news does move incredibly quickly and is disseminated around the globe almost in the blinking of an eye. Thats progress and technology....not lies and conspiracies at work.

First off, after celebrity, fear sells newspapers.

Essentially the issue regarding mortgage companies IMO was going to happen, it had to, there was no way out of it, recession/downturn or no recession/downturn; the mortgae market has been overheating for too long and that had to go somewhere. Thank God for it too, some people might actually be able to afford to buy s new house if the prices fall and mortgage companies behave a little more responsibly. Saying that too with a house to sell knowing its value has already dropped 15% in the last 4 months and no viewings on the horizon, but to me the mortgage market has to find some balance, it was dramatically off-beam up until a year ago.

Re: global warming and The Good Life in the seventies      what are you on. That was just a 1970's sit-com, about a couple living in suburbia sick of the 9-5 rooutine living next door to a snotty neighbour and the bird had a cute arse.

As for gloabal warming and freak weather events SINCE the 70s, what do you call all freak weather events BEFORE that time then? Just a little accident of nature perhaps? If we are entering a global warming phase in the earths evolution then thats what we're doing, but it doesnt mean we as humans caused it. Global warming happens, its unavoidable, get over it; cos it would happen if we had never been here.


Anyway, back to the topic  picked up £200.00 of new work yesterday, nought wrong in my economy 

[NBwcs]

Ive lost about 15 custys in the last 4 weeks, the majority claiming "money being short" as the reason. The upside to this is that its made me get my arse in gear and ive managed to replace them but its definately happening, and i can only imagine that as Christmas approaches, its gonna get a whole lot worse. Pleased to hear it hasnt caught up with a lot of you yet, but prepare yourselves, because its right round the corner. If you had asked me how things were just four weeks ago, I too would have said ive never had it so good. Ive decided to try and overfill my weeks if i can so i have a bit of cushion. Be prepared, and ride it out. I personally dont think offering 8 week cleans is the answer, it spreads like an epidemic, and interferes with your routine.In theory paying 50% more for 8 weekly makes good business sense but in reality ive found theres far too many wc,s quite happy to clean at 8 weekly intervals at less than I charge for 4 weekly, and i consider myself slightly above the local average for pricing, not overly expensive.

[David Slater]

The media have a policy  - keep people in FEAR of what may happen.

That is very true (remember weapons of mass destruction? global warming? )

Also there is 24 hour news, they have to put something in it; and keep repeating it and repeating it and repeating it, we hear it again and again and again, eventually we believe it when we've heard it enough times.


I never knew there was global warming til I listened to the news, I never knew there was an economic downturn either til I listened to the same news programme.

According to my work and level of business there isnt. In fact if my business was anything to go by we'd be breaking all growth records known (a year on year growth of 25%, no country in the world achieves that).

We only believe/think theres a downturn because they tell us there is, repeatedly, just in case we forget.

The papers dont want you to live in fear, neither did they invent Weapons of Mass Destruction (our government did that if you remember!) with their "dodgy dossier".

The papers didnt invent a 70% drop in mortgage approvals. Or a 35% hike in gas prices. Or a 9% hike in electric prices...or did they?

Global warming has been an issue since the 70's (remember 'The Good Life'?) It has become more of an issue today due to 'freak weather' happening on an almost yearly basis. When insurance companies refuse to quote because you live near a river or a flood plain then you know its time to sit up and take note.

If you're saying you never knew something until you read it in a paper then yes, you're probably right. (you probably never knew Gazza beat his wife until you read it in a paper).
These days news does move incredibly quickly and is disseminated around the globe almost in the blinking of an eye. Thats progress and technology....not lies and conspiracies at work.

First off, after celebrity, fear sells newspapers.

Essentially the issue regarding mortgage companies IMO was going to happen, it had to, there was no way out of it, recession/downturn or no recession/downturn; the mortgae market has been overheating for too long and that had to go somewhere. Thank God for it too, some people might actually be able to afford to buy s new house if the prices fall and mortgage companies behave a little more responsibly. Saying that too with a house to sell knowing its value has already dropped 15% in the last 4 months and no viewings on the horizon, but to me the mortgage market has to find some balance, it was dramatically off-beam up until a year ago.

Re: global warming and The Good Life in the seventies      what are you on. That was just a 1970's sit-com, about a couple living in suburbia sick of the 9-5 rooutine living next door to a snotty neighbour and the bird had a cute arse.

As for gloabal warming and freak weather events SINCE the 70s, what do you call all freak weather events BEFORE that time then? Just a little accident of nature perhaps? If we are entering a global warming phase in the earths evolution then thats what we're doing, but it doesnt mean we as humans caused it. Global warming happens, its unavoidable, get over it; cos it would happen if we had never been here.


Anyway, back to the topic  picked up £200.00 of new work yesterday, nought wrong in my economy 

You've really got the wrong end of the stick if you honestly think its newspapers that want you to live in fear - ask yourself how would they benefit exactly?

If you argued that a government wanted you to live in fear thereby allowing your civil liberties to be slowly eroded with cctv, ID cards, anti terror laws which can be used for just about anything a police officer chooses, right to protest curtailed...now that I would find hard to argue with.

The point of the programme The Good Life is to illustrate that there were real concerns as far back as the late 60's early 70's over 'global change' as it was called back then. This isnt a new phenomena i assure you.

I agree, housing has been in a bubble for several years fueled by loose lending from banks. But again, I fail to see what that has to do with newspapers. Gordon Brown promised us over a decade ago and I quote - "No more Boom and Bust"
Then went on to oversee the largest housing bubble this country has even seen fueled in part by the creation of lax lending rules and toothless policing agencies such as the FSA

Newspapers (and news media) report events NOT create the event....but they do make a handy scapegoat for those further up the food chain 

Unless of course you honestly think a newspaper invented Northern Rock, Iraq, Afghanistan, housing bubble, etc etc....
 

[Tosh]

and on my second job the neighbor tells me not to bother cleaning next door because she's had her house repossessed!

She owes me for two cleans, but this has never been a problem before...

The neighbor reckons that if I want paying I ought to get in the que with the rest of her creditors! 

I drove past this woman today in our town centre, exiting a shoe shop with a handfull of shopping bags; not food shopping bags; but 'goods' shopping bags; definately shoes and clothes from Select.

 

[Paul Coleman]

Ive lost about 15 custys in the last 4 weeks, the majority claiming "money being short" as the reason. The upside to this is that its made me get my arse in gear and ive managed to replace them but its definately happening, and i can only imagine that as Christmas approaches, its gonna get a whole lot worse. Pleased to hear it hasnt caught up with a lot of you yet, but prepare yourselves, because its right round the corner. If you had asked me how things were just four weeks ago, I too would have said ive never had it so good. Ive decided to try and overfill my weeks if i can so i have a bit of cushion. Be prepared, and ride it out. I personally dont think offering 8 week cleans is the answer, it spreads like an epidemic, and interferes with your routine.In theory paying 50% more for 8 weekly makes good business sense but in reality ive found theres far too many wc,s quite happy to clean at 8 weekly intervals at less than I charge for 4 weekly, and i consider myself slightly above the local average for pricing, not overly expensive.

Even in  the past two days I've lost a couple of jobs myself.  However, I've gained two that pretty much match them financially and I didn't have to look for them. The pattern of late has been a slightly higher rate of cancellation but the new jobs are keeping pace and a bit more besides.  I don't want to sound complacent but I do still feel that if I were to go out doorknocking I could up the work rate.  If I get a spate of cancellations I may well have to do that.

[Oakley Windows]

Stories laden with fear sells newspapers.

After celebrity of course.

And double decker bus found on the moon 

[rugby]

Gas has just gone up 35%

So start expecting customers to start saving pennies, the one thing they will look at is window cleaning. What I tend to do is say to them instead of cancelling do you want it done every 10 weeks.

i agree, and that finance expert martin whatever his name is, is sure that gas will rise by aprox 25% again in january.people are going to be unable afford to put their heating on,never mind fork out on  bloody window cleaning.

tough times ahead lads

 

[peter holley]

these posts are all a bit extreme...times are getting tighter ... but i havnt been affected YET....
]STAY POSITIVE CAWNVASS CANVASS CANVASS

[Londoner]

and on my second job the neighbor tells me not to bother cleaning next door because she's had her house repossessed!

She owes me for two cleans, but this has never been a problem before...

The neighbor reckons that if I want paying I ought to get in the que with the rest of her creditors! 

I drove past this woman today in our town centre, exiting a shoe shop with a handfull of shopping bags; not food shopping bags; but 'goods' shopping bags; definately shoes and clothes from Select.

 

Tosh, That doesn't mean anything, in fact it proves a point. These people are so stupid they think money grows on trees. She's probably got a new credit card from somewhere and is out on a spree to cheer herself up.

A bloke of my aqaintance, I won't say a friend because I think he's  a D-Head, made himself voluntarily bankrupt owing lots of people money and then got hold of a credit card from somewhere and blew £7,000 on a holiday to Mexico.

They come from the planet Zog.

[matt]

and on my second job the neighbor tells me not to bother cleaning next door because she's had her house repossessed!

She owes me for two cleans, but this has never been a problem before...

The neighbor reckons that if I want paying I ought to get in the que with the rest of her creditors! 

I drove past this woman today in our town centre, exiting a shoe shop with a handfull of shopping bags; not food shopping bags; but 'goods' shopping bags; definately shoes and clothes from Select.

 

A bloke of my aqaintance, I won't say a friend because I think he's  a D-Head, made himself voluntarily bankrupt owing lots of people money and then got hold of a credit card from somewhere and blew £7,000 on a holiday to Mexico.

They come from the planet Zog.

i know some1 who set out to run up massive debts, he got a few credit cards, spend a little, paid it off in time, built up his ratings and got a few more

run up 85 K of debts, mainly cash transferes, had a off-shore bank account, then went down the IVA route, paid back very bery little of it

then sat on the money and plans to pay off the mortgage in a few years with his money from X country

[NWH]

and on my second job the neighbor tells me not to bother cleaning next door because she's had her house repossessed!

She owes me for two cleans, but this has never been a problem before...

The neighbor reckons that if I want paying I ought to get in the que with the rest of her creditors! 

I drove past this woman today in our town centre, exiting a shoe shop with a handfull of shopping bags; not food shopping bags; but 'goods' shopping bags; definately shoes and clothes from Select.

 

Tosh, That doesn't mean anything, in fact it proves a point. These people are so stupid they think money grows on trees. She's probably got a new credit card from somewhere and is out on a spree to cheer herself up.

A bloke of my aqaintance, I won't say a friend because I think he's  a D-Head, made himself voluntarily bankrupt owing lots of people money and then got hold of a credit card from somewhere and blew £7,000 on a holiday to Mexico.

They come from the planet Zog.

It`s not that easy to just make yourself bankrupt these days,that used to be an easy cop out but not anymore the debt stays with you now were ever you go.No mortgage for at least 8-10 years is just the 1 hurdle he`ll have to over come,if was that easy everyone in the first sign of trouble would be doing it.Today the majority of the debts you have in business will stay with you.

[WCE]

What about personal debts though? If you were made bankrupt then would the debts stay with you or does that apply to businesses only?

[Londoner]

What about personal debts though? If you were made bankrupt then would the debts stay with you or does that apply to businesses only?

Debts never go away they just lie dormant. Most big institutions write them off eventually but there is a danger that they can sell the debt on to a third party who then reactivates it.

I watched a program a while back about a woman who went bankrupt years ago when a miliners shop she had went under. Years later she gets a letter out of the blue from a debt collecting agency who had bought her debt.

[Oakley Windows]

Its dead after 6 years of inactivity, either from the original creditor or anyone it may have been sold to.

Matt

[jaykie]

Ive got a mate who had unpaid debts for years went abroad ,then when he returned he new it was after the 6 years so contacted them to say he was back in the country and it had been wiped from the comp.

Chris

[AuRavelling79]

And then you arrange a fake canoeing accident  ...

[windowwashers]

and on my second job the neighbor tells me not to bother cleaning next door because she's had her house repossessed!

She owes me for two cleans, but this has never been a problem before...

The neighbor reckons that if I want paying I ought to get in the que with the rest of her creditors! 

I drove past this woman today in our town centre, exiting a shoe shop with a handfull of shopping bags; not food shopping bags; but 'goods' shopping bags; definately shoes and clothes from Select.

 

A bloke of my aqaintance, I won't say a friend because I think he's  a D-Head, made himself voluntarily bankrupt owing lots of people money and then got hold of a credit card from somewhere and blew £7,000 on a holiday to Mexico.

They come from the planet Zog.

i know some1 who set out to run up massive debts, he got a few credit cards, spend a little, paid it off in time, built up his ratings and got a few more

run up 85 K of debts, mainly cash transferes, had a off-shore bank account, then went down the IVA route, paid back very bery little of it

then sat on the money and plans to pay off the mortgage in a few years with his money from X country

Think this guy maybe deluded, I had a debt from when I was 18 I said I was not paying it as I got ripped off, forgot about it head in sand at that age, I am 32 now when/if it goes to court you have to pay it simple or prison is the answer.

I got a attachment to earnings when I was 22 so I stopped work then worked for myself I then got a court date if I did not pay the court I still pay this now even though it annoys the hell out of me each month.

[Moderator David@stives]

Its not that bad really, people are not being made poor by the credit crunch, just not having as much spare money in there pocket as they used to do, maybe !

Its true car fuel has risenn but in real terms motoring is still cheaper than it was 10 years ago , even taking in the cost of diesel.

Food has gone up, but it did go down every year for about 10 years.

Gas and electricity has gone up, but there are savings to be made by turning off unneccessery appliances and lights, fit low energy lightbulbs and get an high energy boiler fitted.

If you compare these rises against white goods you will see it helps to balance things out, my first washing machine cost me £500 20 years ago a video recorder roughly the same, also paid about £450 for a condensing tumble dryer only 3 years ago, now you can get the lot for less than £400 combined, well a dvd instead of a video.

In my opinion  we've never had it so good

[Londoner]

The fuel costs are worldwide and are not going to go away ever. Its just adjusting to the fact that as fuel gets scarcer instead of cutting back the world is using more and more.
If you go around the posh estates see how many houses have got not one but several air conditioning units mounted on the side. And how many days of the year do they get switched on?

I have travelled quite a lot in America and the electricity consumed to run all those massive air conditioning units over there must be incredible.
Every house, every office and shop has them running 24/7. Before they invented air conditioning it must have been unbearable but thats why America uses so much energy.

People are going to have to adjust to the fact that they are going to be getting bigger bills from now on.

[tonylee]

Its not that bad really, people are not being made poor by the credit crunch, just not having as much spare money in there pocket as they used to do, maybe !

Its true car fuel has risenn but in real terms motoring is still cheaper than it was 10 years ago , even taking in the cost of diesel.

Food has gone up, but it did go down every year for about 10 years.

Gas and electricity has gone up, but there are savings to be made by turning off unneccessery appliances and lights, fit low energy lightbulbs and get an high energy boiler fitted.

If you compare these rises against white goods you will see it helps to balance things out, my first washing machine cost me £500 20 years ago a video recorder roughly the same, also paid about £450 for a condensing tumble dryer only 3 years ago, now you can get the lot for less than £400 combined, well a dvd instead of a video.

In my opinion  we've never had it so good

Hi Dave
Good post and a fair point.
I think its the feel good factor that we are missing and although in real terms things such as white good are cheaper, I think with people living in the here and now and hving less disposeable income they forget this fact.
The doom and gloom is compacted by their weekly shop and each time their cars are filled.
That said I'm still very busy with just a few going from 4 weekly to 8
Tony

[Wayne Thomas]

Its not that bad really, people are not being made poor by the credit crunch, just not having as much spare money in there pocket as they used to do, maybe !

Its true car fuel has risenn but in real terms motoring is still cheaper than it was 10 years ago , even taking in the cost of diesel.

Food has gone up, but it did go down every year for about 10 years.

Gas and electricity has gone up, but there are savings to be made by turning off unneccessery appliances and lights, fit low energy lightbulbs and get an high energy boiler fitted.

If you compare these rises against white goods you will see it helps to balance things out, my first washing machine cost me £500 20 years ago a video recorder roughly the same, also paid about £450 for a condensing tumble dryer only 3 years ago, now you can get the lot for less than £400 combined, well a dvd instead of a video.

In my opinion  we've never had it so good

How come electrical retailers are doing so bad if all the above is so true?

[David Slater]

Its not that bad really, people are not being made poor by the credit crunch, just not having as much spare money in there pocket as they used to do, maybe !

Its true car fuel has risenn but in real terms motoring is still cheaper than it was 10 years ago , even taking in the cost of diesel.

Food has gone up, but it did go down every year for about 10 years.

Gas and electricity has gone up, but there are savings to be made by turning off unneccessery appliances and lights, fit low energy lightbulbs and get an high energy boiler fitted.

If you compare these rises against white goods you will see it helps to balance things out, my first washing machine cost me £500 20 years ago a video recorder roughly the same, also paid about £450 for a condensing tumble dryer only 3 years ago, now you can get the lot for less than £400 combined, well a dvd instead of a video.

In my opinion  we've never had it so good

Dave,

I've heard this argument put forward before by shall we say 'those with a motive'...a certain political party maybe?

In fact the 'middle classes' of today are POORER than their parents of the 50's. We work longer hours for less money.... Hard to believe I know, but true.

I shall add a link to a very good lecture by a professor of economics discussing just this subject if you wish. Its a bit of a hard slog for the first ten minutes but after that, its quite good (its approx 1 hour long)...let me know if you'd like to watch it?

The absolute fact is we are POORER today (by disposable income) than our parents.

We 'feel' richer because we think our property is worth more. This is a myth.

Because we need to pay MORE to buy that asset.

The cost of housing outstrips any benefits we get from China with their cheap goods. It has the opposite effect. For every pound that we saved by buying goods from overseas we pumped more than that pound into property though debt acquisition.

China is cash rich.

Great Britain is saddled with debt.

[Pj]

I won't bore you with the details but I earned a great deal more (pro rata) back in 1978 than I do now, and at 54 with CHD & Diabetes I'm working harder!

[Londoner]

There is still a big population round here of quite wealthy retired people who are sitting pretty in a house thats worth fifty times what they paid for it and a good company pension coming in.

However, once that generation has died off they will not be replaced by a generation thats had it so good.
People of my age (mid 50s) have a history of divorce, redundancy,often multiple career changes and not through choice, plundered pension funds etc and virtually all the people I know have had sudden life changing events of this sort.

Many of us will have to work well past our expected retirement age and there won't be the easy cash around in years to come.

Neither will there be the job opportunities for our kids, so many more of them will be financially unable to cut the apron strings.

[ftp]

Spot on there. Also some of the older people managed to get mega redundancy payments - something that seems to have fallen away somehow. 

[Moderator David@stives]

Maybe there kids will inherit there houses also making them rich.

I just look from my prospective, maybe rose coloured spectacles, I am nothing special, dont think i am overlly successful, but i have never been better off in my life.

Maybe this government has given me the tools to be able to build a business, i dont know.

One thing for sure is, just like thousands of other window cleaners is that family credit eased the burdan whilst i was building my business, without that hand out i would have struggled and would have to go and get an employed job.

Nobody is poor in this country, if there is it is nearly always the ones who have over borrowed beyond there means and lived the good life for the last few years.

One of my friends spent like there was no tommorrow, flashing his cash and larging it up, all on credit cards and remortgages now he is skint, most other people we know arent struggling at all.

[Clive McDonald]

It's been nicked.

Fifteen years ago there were almost no private cars in China, now there are twenty million all driving round  with petrol that should be in an amercan or british tank. They've pinched our petrol and a good deal of our money.

All this lead of house and church roof's where do you think that goes? All the copper cable nicked from railway lines straight to china. Did they ever pay for computers or software? Did they even ask permission before they reinvented a technology and did it cheaper?

The constuction industy in spain has collapsed, one in ten spaniards is out of work- this is mirrored in much of europe. Here it is not just builders, but suppliers, plant hire people and anyone connected with the building industry who is in trouble.

Ewan, the media didn't invent this.

[Clive McDonald]

America, but it will be overhauled by China in the year 2050.

[Wayne Thomas]

According to London stock people, we're a year behind our American people and we're in a worse situation then them as we have less manufacturing businesses and export less. There's no hope for us, let's all find a long length of rope Stay positive

[Londoner]

The point is we are in a business where we rely on our customers having surplus cash. Having your windows cleaned is not a life or death necessity and can easily be stopped when times get hard.
We have had four customers change from six weeks to eight weeks and another has gone to twelve weeks. Coincidence? I don't think so.

When the choice is eat, heat the house or have your windows cleaned the answer is obvious.

We don't know what is going on behind all those front doors. One customer told me she has had her hours cut and I bet a lot of people feel insecure about their jobs.

[Conflagration2000]

I had two hotels cancel last week as I was getting my stuff off the vehicle. They both said bookings were down etc. I went to do another just down the road and he told me that these two had been visited by a "new" window cleaner (trad) and had undercut my price. He said he was thinking of swapping to him as well but when he saw this bloke leaning dangerously from an old rickety ladder three floors up in filthy jeans and trainers smoking a fAg he changed his mind and is sticking with me. I was more annoyed and being lied to than losing the jobs

[Pj]

I cleaned a house just up the road the other day, I'm grumbling away to myself because it's only £12 and takes me 35 minutes and I'm thinking all those blokes on the forum will laugh at this, then the customer came out to give me my £12 for 35 mins work and told me that he had to take a drop in wages and now gets £9 an hour!
I walked off thinking...things could be worse.

I'll probably lose that one soon!

[Paul Coleman]

The point is how many as a percentage of your window cleaning round, have actually cancelled or adjusted like you mentioned because of the current talk/news of the day or economic climate.

That’s what you should be looking at as this directly affects your business all the rest is just rubbish, scare mongering nonsense.

So let’s see the percentage posted on here to give everyone a true picture of the current times. I expect it to be in single figures for the majority.

Mine is zero % and have been recently getting some big jobs.

 

Possibly 2 or 3% .  Not always easy to tell as people don't always tell you why or they don't always give the true reason.  However, even if it is 3%, the gains during that time have been greater than those losses.

[Moderator David@stives]

Why do you think it is called the dredit crunch ?

Big borrowers or would be borrowers are in trouble , the rest of us seem fine at the moment

[avesovum]

Hi All,

I have not had time to read all the posts. So if this has been mentioned then please forgive.

I have prepared for the credit crunch with customers.

I haven’t had any customers cancelling or moaning yet but if I do, this is what I’m going to do!!

If the customer wants to cancel due to financial reasons, I will say to them "I will drop my charge slightly or decrease your cleaning frequency temporarily to keep your business until the economic outlook levels off."

IMO it's better to keep the customers until you have found a new one to replace them because if things do get worse with the credit crunch and for example lose 40%-50% of your customers through cancelling then you can kiss goodbye to your business.

SO KEEP YOUR CUSTOMERS AND TAKE A TEMPORARY KNOCK ON THE CHIN!

[Moderator David@stives]

Yeah Right !!!!!!!

If my customers dont want to pay i will find some others who will.

Cut prices NEVER !!!!!!!!

[avesovum]

OK DAVE!!

I suspect I hit a nerve with you and probably many other Window Cleaners but:

If reducing your price is not an option, then why not decrease the frequency and find another custy, Everybody’s, happy (Customer keeps window cleaner, Customer pays less and window cleaner doubles his money.)

This also has another positive outcome: Customer sees how fair you are hence more recommendations.

It's not a scientific formula you have to work out its common business sense.

Why do you think the most successful big telecoms companies etc.... will reduce your bill temporarily to keep your custom?

[David Slater]

I thought the whole point of working for yourself was to go beyond everybody else stuck in the rat race.

Sure you have to be aware of the current business climate, but you don’t have to react like the majority. There should be more to you than reacting and being pushed from pillar to post by just what is in the news.

Point to remember when you get large changes in the economy; it will go hand in hand with what is called transference of wealth. Put simply people with money will lose it and some who never had any will get it.

The money is still there it hasn’t disappeared, although the way some people talk you would have thought it had vanished.

 

Ewan,

The money HAS "just vanished".. if it was merely a transfer of wealth then thats all well and good and quite a natural part of a capitalist society (we buy and sell things usually for a profit).

But this is the problem we have today -

If you had bought a house 12 months ago for 200k in all likelyhood it is now worth 10%-15% less with further falls predicted. This money hasnt been "transferred" to someone else. It has quite literally disappeared!

If you had bought Northern Rock shares, the money hasnt been transferred to another person, it has literally gone!...never to be seen again.


Normally, being cash rich in this sort of environment is the best policy. But not so today! If you're lucky you'll return 6 or 7% in a decent deposit account....but gas has risen 35% and electricity 9% and food by 24% and petrol (well, I think we all know whats happened there!). So even your savings are being eroded by inflation. Your cash savings are literally disappearing before your very eyes.

For an extreme example think of Germany (post war) and Zimbabwe today with hyper inflation.

Unless wages rise by 10 - 15% this year, we are all poorer than we were this time last year....and I dont see the government offering more than 2-3% to most of their workers! So in effect almost all public sector workers have had a pay cut.

It doesnt really matter if you have cash or assets. Your 'wealth' is eroding very quickly.
If you have customers who are cash rich (pensioners) they are getting poorer each day and if you have customers who are asset rich (landlords, builders, management companies) they too are getting poorer each day.

Asset Rich customers also have another serious problem beyond their asset being worth less - the cost of servicing their debt has risen dramatically. Mortage rates have been climbing steadily over the last 24 months with no sign that they will  come down. Again, their 'wealth' is quite literally vanishing just servicing the debt.

That my friend, is why they are calling it a Perfect Storm.


Not a very happy picture if you ask me.

[Tosh]

David,

If all that was 'your own words', good post mate. 

None of it was new to me (ahem!), but it was concise and sounds logical; easy to read too.

If I were this site's owner, I'd send you a bent squeegy channel for the 'post of the month' competition.

------------------------------------

So when do you think we'll come out of this current financial crisis?  I've read somewhere, I think it was Hello Magazine, that it'll take till the UK Olympics take place in 2012!

[David Slater]

David,

If all that was 'your own words', good post mate. 

None of it was new to me (ahem!), but it was concise and sounds logical; easy to read too.

If I were this site's owner, I'd send you a bent squeegy channel for the 'post of the month' competition.

------------------------------------

So when do you think we'll come out of this current financial crisis?  I've read somewhere, I think it was Hello Magazine, that it'll take till the UK Olympics take place in 2012!

Thank you Tosh,

Yep, they are all my own ramblings.

A swanky new Autobrush would be a nice prize   

[David Slater]

I thought the whole point of working for yourself was to go beyond everybody else stuck in the rat race.

Sure you have to be aware of the current business climate, but you don’t have to react like the majority. There should be more to you than reacting and being pushed from pillar to post by just what is in the news.

Point to remember when you get large changes in the economy; it will go hand in hand with what is called transference of wealth. Put simply people with money will lose it and some who never had any will get it.

The money is still there it hasn’t disappeared, although the way some people talk you would have thought it had vanished.

 

Ewan,

The money HAS "just vanished".. if it was merely a transfer of wealth then thats all well and good and quite a natural part of a capitalist society (we buy and sell things usually for a profit).

But this is the problem we have today -

If you had bought a house 12 months ago for 200k in all likelyhood it is now worth 10%-15% less with further falls predicted. This money hasnt been "transferred" to someone else. It has quite literally disappeared!

If you had bought Northern Rock shares, the money hasnt been transferred to another person, it has literally gone!...never to be seen again.


Normally, being cash rich in this sort of environment is the best policy. But not so today! If you're lucky you'll return 6 or 7% in a decent deposit account....but gas has risen 35% and electricity 9% and food by 24% and petrol (well, I think we all know whats happened there!). So even your savings are being eroded by inflation. Your cash savings are literally disappearing before your very eyes.

For an extreme example think of Germany (post war) and Zimbabwe today with hyper inflation.

Unless wages rise by 10 - 15% this year, we are all poorer than we were this time last year....and I dont see the government offering more than 2-3% to most of their workers! So in effect almost all public sector workers have had a pay cut.

It doesnt really matter if you have cash or assets. Your 'wealth' is eroding very quickly.
If you have customers who are cash rich (pensioners) they are getting poorer each day and if you have customers who are asset rich (landlords, builders, management companies) they too are getting poorer each day.

Asset Rich customers also have another serious problem beyond their asset being worth less - the cost of servicing their debt has risen dramatically. Mortage rates have been climbing steadily over the last 24 months with no sign that they will  come down. Again, their 'wealth' is quite literally vanishing just servicing the debt.

That my friend, is why they are calling it a Perfect Storm.


Not a very happy picture if you ask me.

Money doesn’t just vanish as you say it does, a house is not money you are talking about valuation, as with shares. Its people confusing the two, as always. Money and valuation are to very different things.

I don’t think you should be comparing the UK current situation which is not as bad as people are making out. With post war Germany and Zimbabwe, which is a very ridiculous thing to do?

According to you everybody is getting poorer and yet you go on to talk about relative small changes in the economy regarding the inflation with individual examples which themselves don’t give the full picture. By your examples the economy is in deflation.

As for the Perfect Storm I saw the film it is very good. I don’t know where you picked that up in this context probably the media again behaving like a drama queen. Then people like you running around like Chicken Little saying the sky is falling.

If you could comprehend how wealthy this country is your view will change, and maybe you will start to look at the real issue.

 

I'm not quite sue what you mean by the real issue?

The phrase 'Perfect Storm' was around long before the film! Its just a short way of explaining a whole series of seemingly unconnected events which conspire to bring about an even bigger problem.

Money can and does 'just vanish'...lets say you had £5 in 1950 do you think you could buy the same amount of goods/services today for that £5 as you could back then? Of course not. Unless you invested your money into something which gave you a return equal to or above inflation then to all intents and purposes your money has vanished (or should I say, your buying power has vanished).

You may still physically hold that £5 note in your hand but your 'wealth' has indeed vanished over time with inflation.

Zimbabwe and Germany were (as I explained) two very extreme examples of hyper inflation. The UK is not experiencing hyper inflation but its is experiencing inflation well above the official figure of 2.7%...and I think we'd all agree on that!

No, I dont think a few small changes have brought about deflation. We are experiencing stagflation which I feel will lead us to an inflationary enviroment. INFLATION is the killer!

You need to understand first and foremost that Fiat money is just a way of transferring goods/services from one person to another.....we could use beans or leaves or coconuts!!

I dont post my 'feelings' or 'opinions' on this subject. I post the facts that I see before me every single day. If I saw my petrol, gas, electric, food, mortgage or council tax payments going down then I would talk about that. I dont. I see them rising and I dont see wages rising to meet them. So yes, to all intents and purposes you are working for LESS today than you were this time last year.

Its a very complex subject which isnt easy to explain in a few short posts.

Try googling -

Fiat Money
Inflation
Stagflation
Gold Standard
....the list goes on

There some very good lectures and discussions on youtube which are worth a look as well.







 

[avesovum]

Well Dave,

I understood that perfectly.

Good post for the non financial savy to read.

[David Slater]

Well Dave,

I understood that perfectly.

Good post for the non financial savy to read.

Thank you avesovum,

I dont pretend to understand how it all works but I do have a basic understanding of how it moves around the globe and how it can rise and fall for seemingly no reason! Its a fascinating subject once you get into it.

I'm trying to keep it very light without getting bogged down in too much technical analysis....which is heavy going and VERY boring!

I just hope one or two people will go searching the web for more information.

Knowledge is Power as they say!

[ftp]

Well done David, i don't know about the perfect storm but that was the perfect post!
I can't believe how daft some people are not being able to see what's going on and not understanding basic maths. Anyway, i must go now because i'm going to print loads of money to help the economy - might even pass it on to the people who havn't got any.  :

[avesovum]

David Slater, You don’t know the real issue, like most people, so that’s not unusual.

It doesn’t vanish, its called inflation a word you keep using but don’t understand.
Inflation devalues money, again this misunderstanding about money and valuation.

You may not understand this but you must have inflation! The alternatives are worse.

You might understand this one money is an idea!

Stop confusing money and valuation and you will get clarity.


As for working for less today than I was last year, I don’t think so, for some maybe but I have a better understanding as to what I am doing. How else are you going to get ahead?

Keep googling and understanding, most wont and it will give you an edge over the rest and you will have an accurate understanding of what’s going on in business while the rest get there info from hearsay and the media. Or to put it another way, the rest get the info from Joe Bloggs or from journalists, hardly the best people don’t you agree!

 

Well Ewan,

I think Dave did a good job explaining it in Layman terms meaning "One of the people, in distinction from the clergy; one of the laity; sometimes, a man not belonging to some particular profession, in distinction from those who do." and it still looks like people can't grasp it.

Never Mind I sympathise.

[David Slater]

David Slater, You don’t know the real issue, like most people, so that’s not unusual.

It doesn’t vanish, its called inflation a word you keep using but don’t understand.
Inflation devalues money, again this misunderstanding about money and valuation.

You may not understand this but you must have inflation! The alternatives are worse.

You might understand this one money is an idea!

Stop confusing money and valuation and you will get clarity.

As for working for less today than I was last year, I don’t think so, for some maybe but I have a better understanding as to what I am doing. How else are you going to get ahead?

Keep googling and understanding, most wont and it will give you an edge over the rest and you will have an accurate understanding of what’s going on in business while the rest get there info from hearsay and the media. Or to put it another way, the rest get the info from Joe Bloggs or from journalists, hardly the best people don’t you agree!

 

Oh my word!!!

Ewan...No! no! no! no!

We DONT want inflation. Every Chancellor spends countless hours lying in bed at night pooping his pants trying with all his might to GET RID of inflation and banish it from the economy.

Gordon Brown and his 'Golden Rule' of borrowing less than 40% of GDP should show you that. He has had praise heaped on him for keeping inflation pegged at less that 2% for nearly 10 years. That was a GOOD thing....what wasnt so good was the off balance sheet PFI PPP deals which falsely kept the real debt burden off the books! (thats coming back to haunt him now!).

Inflation is a self feeding cancer. It helps nobody. It achieves nothing. It devalues savings and thus devalues your 'wealth'.

I'll try and explain -

Lets say:

In 1950 a pint of milk cost 7p and the milkman was paid £1 per hour.
INFLATION rears it ugly head and the farmer needs 12p because his cattle feed supplier has raised his prices beacause of bad weather or a strike....so the dairy need to sell their milk at 20p

Now the milkman needs a pay rise...because he needs to buy milk as well for his family.

So the dairy pay him £2 an hour.

Question -

Who is better off now a pint of milk is 25p instead of 7p ?

Question -

If you had savings in the bank (your savings dont get a payrise remember!)...are your savings worth more or less than they were yesterday?

Growth is good. Inflation is BAD

 
 

[Moderator David@stives]

The money hasnt vanished if you bought an house for £200'000, 12 months ago the person who you bought it off has got your money.

The same with the Northern Rock shares the person you bought them off has got your money.

[David Slater]

The money hasnt vanished if you bought an house for £200'000, 12 months ago the person who you bought it off has got your money.

The same with the Northern Rock shares the person you bought them off has got your money.

The 'Greater Fool' as they call it.

Well, surely you must realise that just like pass the parcel....eventually there will be a 'greater fool' who is left nursing the loss.

It doesnt matter which party it is - if you sold your house then good for you! but the person who bought that house is now nursing a loss.

Someone, somewhere is now holding a pile of useless bits of paper with the words 'Northern Rock shares' written on them which they paid 'real' money for and which are now worthless.

They could have bought a loaf of bread or a car with that 'real' money but they cannot exchange the Northern Rock share certificate for anything can they?

In my book, thats a loss.

[gary999]

great post by david slater.

we can all argue whose right or wrong about whats going on
but the reality is the pound in mine and my customers pocket
isnt going as far as it did last year or even six months ago

thats what concerns me and know doubt my customers!

[Moderator David@stives]

 might have a worthless house worth £200k but does it matter it is quite affordable and i have to live somewhere.

If you look back in History house prices long term ALWAYS go up.

At the moment I welcome a fall in the propert market, just makes my next move a bit more affordable

Share prices come in and out of favour , but overall the stock market is a long term winner.

[Glyn H]

This is the time when millionaires and billionaires are going to be made
buying property at  cheaper prices and selling when the prices rise again as they always have done.

This has been the busiest window and gutter cleaning month we have had for years - probably because people have decided not to sell but to make good the property they are in.
I heard the same from a fencing contractor who has never been as busy!

The media only reports on negatives never on positives - the newspapers and news reports sell us fear of what might/could happen. Its just got worse and worse creating a  fear of terrorism,global warming,inflation,immigration

[Moderator David@stives]

I have had a record month every month for the last 6 months.

Where is this doom and gloom  ?

[Clive McDonald]

Right at this very moment a group of slanty eyed rascals are sat around on great sack fulls of banknotes eating egg foo yung  shouting greater fool are you Ewan!!!

When you go on holiday you can't move for rich russians elbowing you of the way at the allinc food troughs. We are the new poor people. We've either sold or given away our knowledge, have no energy or mineral resources, and are fast becoming a nation whose leading industries are window cleaning and landscape gardening. Neither of which produce wealth :

[bluez]

Im no economist but surely moderate inflation, well controled by central banks and interest rate changes, and consistant gentle growth in gdp and a surplus of exports over imports is economic utopia.

You can play semantics but the facts are that if I need cash tomorrow my nett worth has been deminished in both actual terms and theoretical terms and my ability to borrow has been harmed.

Translation: cash is king
 

[Clive McDonald]

Well at least I do my bit for the country, I'm right in there with the ruskies elbow to elbow- did you see they kicked the BP boss out?That'll be another asset they sieze.

A lot of good posts on this topic but you can't even grasp the wealth creation concept.

[paulscotney]

The only time the economy went wrong for more than a 10 year period was when the black death occurred and that was quite a few centuries ago.

[peter holley]

iv just bought a house  and its gone down in value.... do i care? no! why should i its worth more than the money, its my home where i intend to live for many years.....also i still have equity. on my last house i also had it go down in value after i bought it, did it matter ? no , as i lived there for years and i sold it for 3x its original purchase price ;
what matters to me is that i can keep my buisness growing by finding customers that can pay me...
i am not worse off than i was this time last year,,,,, yes, my bills are higher , but my wage has increased more than inflation....

i keep positive and strive to increase and move forward

[WCE]

The point is how many as a percentage of your window cleaning round, have actually cancelled or adjusted like you mentioned because of the current talk/news of the day or economic climate.

That’s what you should be looking at as this directly affects your business all the rest is just rubbish, scare mongering nonsense.

So let’s see the percentage posted on here to give everyone a true picture of the current times. I expect it to be in single figures for the majority.

Mine is zero % and have been recently getting some big jobs.

 

To answer your question Ewan, I think it depends on what you do. I have in the past made good money from build cleans with all the big names but I would say that in the last 4-5 months I have seen an 80% decrease in this work. If this was all I did than I would be in trouble - people are just not buying new builds. However commercial/domestic - Better than ever so no effect. However although business in these areas is booming I am no better off! If the construction Industry hadn't fell to bits then I would be on for a record year however despite all the new work all I've really done in effect is replace the build cleans with this new work. So when I had been planning to build my business further, despite the effort I have actually in effect stood still - no worse off no better. 

[mark dew]

haha
funny thread this one. Doors open and others close all of the time, whatever the scenario.
Things are more expensive now. There is no argument there. I have lost 2 jobs in the last few months. But gained much more.
The last 2 months has seen my income increase by a one and two hundred quid respectively.
For many people, getting their windows cleaned once a month is as definite as getting the newspaper delivered.
I think this credit crunch will be a fantatstic opportunity for many to streamline our business. As long as we are living within our means it won't adversely affect us.
The biggest trouble i find with wc is that it is easy to find a comfort zone and to stick within it. For the ones who are prepared to step out and invest in right equipment, there will always be plenty of opportunities.
The only people i see who are at risk of losing out work wise, are the people who are too dependant on 1 source of income.
For the rest of us, as long as we keep moving it will be happy days.

[Paul Coleman]

This is the time when millionaires and billionaires are going to be made
buying property at  cheaper prices and selling when the prices rise again as they always have done.

This has been the busiest window and gutter cleaning month we have had for years - probably because people have decided not to sell but to make good the property they are in.
I heard the same from a fencing contractor who has never been as busy!

The media only reports on negatives never on positives - the newspapers and news reports sell us fear of what might/could happen. Its just got worse and worse creating a  fear of terrorism,global warming,inflation,immigration

Glyn.  You forgot the bird flu   

[Paul Coleman]

I have had a record month every month for the last 6 months.

Where is this doom and gloom  ?

If I had shifted my rear and earned another £20, I would have had another record month in July.  As it was, it turned out to be my second best ever.

[Paul Coleman]

Im no economist but surely moderate inflation, well controled by central banks and interest rate changes, and consistant gentle growth in gdp and a surplus of exports over imports is economic utopia.

You can play semantics but the facts are that if I need cash tomorrow my nett worth has been deminished in both actual terms and theoretical terms and my ability to borrow has been harmed.

Translation: cash is king
 

Paradoxically, such a utopia can be a problem in its own right.  This is because such a stable economy will attract investment and will eventually overheat which, human nature being what it is, causes inflation..  The tinkering to prevent this overheating  has to become greater and greater over time until the only method left is to allow a recession to occur.  There's nothing new about this scenario.  I'm no bible basher (far from it) but I believe there is a parable about 7 fat cows and 7 thin cows that (according to some) emulates economic cycles.

[geefree]

anyway , not had any cancellations and work still coming in.... luxury or not.... most people still want windows cleaning... most respectable people will always value an essential service ( because they dont want to do it themselves)... wether we are in a "credit crunch"  or not ..( what an absurd saying for a near recession)...

would you clean a smelly wheelie bin?

would you clean your conservatory roof?

would you , in fact clean all your windows ? ... and all to a satisfactoy standard as your missus would want... and very regular...?

no of course not... these jobs are left to others, for a very small fee....


chin up lads.....

we are needed! and always will be.

[David Slater]

haha
funny thread this one. Doors open and others close all of the time, whatever the scenario.
Things are more expensive now. There is no argument there. I have lost 2 jobs in the last few months. But gained much more.
The last 2 months has seen my income increase by a one and two hundred quid respectively.
For many people, getting their windows cleaned once a month is as definite as getting the newspaper delivered.
I think this credit crunch will be a fantatstic opportunity for many to streamline our business. As long as we are living within our means it won't adversely affect us.
The biggest trouble i find with wc is that it is easy to find a comfort zone and to stick within it. For the ones who are prepared to step out and invest in right equipment, there will always be plenty of opportunities.
The only people i see who are at risk of losing out work wise, are the people who are too dependant on 1 source of income.
For the rest of us, as long as we keep moving it will be happy days.

Mark,

I feel you've hit the nail right on the head!

"I think this credit crunch will be a fantatstic opportunity for many to streamline our business. As long as we are living within our means it won't adversely affect us.
The biggest trouble i find with wc is that it is easy to find a comfort zone and to stick within it."

Yes, I feel there are some very challenging times ahead and looking to previous years isnt necessarily going to be the best answer. We are entering a new pardigm and that can be a hard adjustment.


Ewan, you seem to be talking in riddles my friend.

You intimate you know the problem and possibly the answer but dont put forward what that may be?

I'd very much like to hear your views on what you think the 'real issue' actually is?

[Pat Purcell]

Interesting discussion, I have to say I agree and disagree with a lot said but , as Dave St Ives said buying a house thats now down in value has not caused that wealth to vanish, but inflation can make you less wealthy unless your prices rise with inflation or your savings are pegged to inflation rates
This lady has a lot to say about how we are less well off than our parents and if you can sit thru it its worth watching although its difficult to stay awake
h ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

[bluez]

Im no economist but surely moderate inflation, well controled by central banks and interest rate changes, and consistant gentle growth in gdp and a surplus of exports over imports is economic utopia.

You can play semantics but the facts are that if I need cash tomorrow my nett worth has been deminished in both actual terms and theoretical terms and my ability to borrow has been harmed.

Translation: cash is king
 

Paradoxically, such a utopia can be a problem in its own right.  This is because such a stable economy will attract investment and will eventually overheat which, human nature being what it is, causes inflation..  The tinkering to prevent this overheating  has to become greater and greater over time until the only method left is to allow a recession to occur.  There's nothing new about this scenario.  I'm no bible basher (far from it) but I believe there is a parable about 7 fat cows and 7 thin cows that (according to some) emulates economic cycles.

Good point the shiner, if we lived in a world where utopia was the norm we would need another word for a better place than utopia

There is neither a wrong or a right in most of the points in this thread just a different interpretation of what constitutes real wealth and what outside influences affect the value of this wealth.

As someone said (was it churchill) let me live in interesting times. All times of change either good or bad change, create opportunity if we are smart enough to recreate our selves to exploit them.

[Tosh]

Right at this very moment a group of slanty eyed rascals are sat around on great sack fulls of banknotes eating egg foo yung  shouting greater fool are you Ewan!!!

You do realise I have slanty-eyes don't you?  Although I'm a mongrel, I do have a strong Oriental appearance (and a Geordie accent); no kidding.

Unfortunately I'm not sat round sack fulls of banknotes; though I quite like egg foo yung.