[Tosh]

Right, today I quoted for a customer who wanted his windows cleaned today also.

It was a posh - real leaded - place, built in 1912 in the style of 'Arts and Crafts' (so he told me).

I counted each section of 9 panes of glass as 'one unit'.  They were about a foot square each one (imagine small Georgian windows; but leaded; not with a wooden frame), and there were 35 of them and I thought 1 pound each is fair.

I then bunged on another fifteen quid for 'Matt's Rich Tax'.
 
I explained the diffiulty in cleaning his windows, said they would leak (some of them anyway) and said most trad only window cleaners would refuse the job (as they already had done).  I explained I clean a similar property to his, and do a top job.  That's 50 quid a clean please!

He accepted and the job took me 1 hour 20 minutes; easy to do; but it was a filthy first clean; I reckon I could get it down to an hour at least.

He then asked me if I could clean the inside of his kitchen, his study and a large section of glass on his stair case; overlooking a countryside view.

I said I do it for 20 quid, since I guessed it was about 20 units of glass.

What a nightmare.  These three areas took me 1 hour 30 mins to do, and were tough work.  The leaded windows are about 9 feet tall and situated about 3 feet from the ground.

The kitchen windows; the largest area; were covered in grease and hadn't been done in years.  They were a complete bugger.

So my first 1hr 30 mins I earnt 50 quid.  I'm happy with that.

The second 1 hr 30 mins, I earnt 20 quid; and sweated big style for it.

I really should've said 40 quid for the inside areas!

It's tough getting your pricing right!

Anyone got any tips?

[jeff1]

the only thing I do Tosh is charge x1.5 for inside, but what I also tend to do instead of just pulling a price out of thin air, is to stand at the window have a good look at it, and try to work out in my mind ''HOW LONG'' will it take me to clean it, you tend to get a rough idea how long it takes, and bearing in mind that its probablly be ages since it was last cleaned, but you can't always see the dirt. because of ambient light in the property, so I always add a little more if I think its going to take a while to clean a paticular window.
Just the way I do things.

[EasyClean]

Make an excuse that you don't possess a squeegie or winwash so you can't clean insides. Stick to outsides only usng WFP as it's quicker, easier, less effort and more profitable.

[Clive McDonald]

You still did pretty good and better than I would have.Try and make a virtue of it, after all officers have been getting the better of you all your life. Let him feel good, and have a little chuckle over it. Then as you shaft him for fifty quid every subseqeunt visit he'll still have that feel good factor.

[Adam Boss]

Easy, a pro window cleaner should be able to clean inside and outside windows, what's the point  just cleaning outsides when they are dirty inside and the cus wants them doing.
A pro windowcleaner should be able to use a squeegee if not then they shouldn't be in the business. IMO.
Regards

[Sir Squeaky]

Tosh, what I do if it's a big job and tough to price is give them a "ballpark" figure.
I say "Well it's tough to tell how long the job will take, and I don't want to lose out and get behind"
"I'd say, around the £40-mark, but it could take longer, in which case maybe £10 or so more"

Usually they say "Fine, just tell me what you want, they need doing!"

[Tosh]

A pro windowcleaner should be able to use a squeegee if not then they shouldn't be in the business. IMO.
Regards

On this job, I would've loved to use a squeegie; unfortunately they were all small georgian sized panes of glass, set in an anchient lead frame; most of them were original windows; so nearly 100 years old.

But I do take your point, and consider myself proficient in the use of a squeegie.

[Ian Rochester]

The only way is:

"Live and learn!"

You'll not fall into that trap again, it's all just a big learning curve and you never reach the top.

I'm sure there are others where you have priced it and it was done in half the time you reckoned on.

We generally work on 1.5 times for the insides, however did an inside of a new large oak wood framed conservatory in the summer, the wood inside had been sprayed with a protector and it was all over the insides of the windows.  We ended up taking nearly 2 days to do it and used 6 bottles of oilflo and solvent cleaner.

It ended up costing the custy £400, I had originally quoted £45!!, I swiftly reviewed that with them after doing only one window which took nearly an hour.

Don't be afraid to stop and say that your pricing was wrong and this is the new price.  We do it with carpet cleaning all the time, people tell you its about 4 yds square so you give them a price based on that, however when you get their its nearly twice the size.

[Tosh]

have a good look at it, and try to work out in my mind ''HOW LONG'' will it take me to clean it, you tend to get a rough idea how long it takes, and bearing in mind that its probablly be ages since it was last cleaned, but you can't always see the dirt.

Jeff,

This is a good tip!  I know it's common sense though.

I've just shown Wor Lass this thread and she thinks I should take more time working out how to do a job and how long it will take; when it's not a routine domestic job.

We did a bugger of a job yesturday; yet with a little bit of prior planning and preparation; it could've been a lot simpler instead of learning the 'hard way'.

Sometimes, I'm like a bull in a china shop and just want to get stuck in; and this isn't always the best approach.

For example, yesturday, Wor Lass at 5' 1" tall was faced with 9 or 10 foot high Georgian windows.  She really struggled to reach the top sections from her A Frame (we had to use the shorter one, since that's got articulated feet - safer on varnished wooden floors).

I was oblivious to this, since I was happily 'poling' the exterior windows, thinking 'this job's a peice of cake'.

But given that she really struggled to reach the top section of those interior windows, it makes sense if I cleaned those top sections; leaving the easier lower ones for her to do; then go and WFP the exterior!

Simple really; but I didn't realise this at the time; until Wor Lass exited the building telling me 'she's had enough of it'! 

But the thing is, when the customer is escorting you round the place; chatting as you go; you don't tend to take that much notice.  And I feel awkward saying, 'I'm going to have another look round; by myself; if that's okay?' 

I prefer it when they show me round and then sod-off; so I can do the quote in slow time.  I'll make sure this happens in future.

I know that's daft, but I've learned the tough way; and will do this in future - make the customer leave me alone - and spend longer working out the quote on bigger jobs; or more eccentric accounts.

[Tosh]

The only way is:

"Live and learn!"

You'll not fall into that trap again, it's all just a big learning curve and you never reach the top.

Coincidence or what!  I didn't read your post before posting mine!

You're right though; just when I thought I knew just about everything there is to know about domestic window cleaning, I get caught out two days in a row!

[EasyClean]

Easy, a pro window cleaner should be able to clean inside and outside windows, what's the point  just cleaning outsides when they are dirty inside and the cus wants them doing.
A pro windowcleaner should be able to use a squeegee if not then they shouldn't be in the business. IMO.
Regards

 
I can but don't clean any insides because there is enough work opportunities around locally to simply clean outsides only. I enjoy WFP outside windows but detest cleaning traditional insides. I am and always will stick to WFP outsides only (because of my chronic arthritus) and won't let the customer dictate to me that I have to clean the insides. It's up to the customer if they decide to use my cleaning services as I explain from the start that I only clean external windows because of my illness but do conduct myself in a professional manner and always do an unbeatable job.

[Adam Boss]

Tosh, the trouble with our job is that no 2 jobs are the same really,
price up future jobs with that last job in mind and you wont under price, I know what you mean as i have given quotes and thought half way through that I have under priced, when I explain to the customer they are nearly always happy as it states it's an estimated quote.
I have had it the other way also where the quote is way over what the job was worth. That's what makes this job interesting to say the least.
Regards

[JohnL]

I always tell the customer - show me the property then leave me to make notes and come up with figures.
If you rush or go in without thinking you are bound to get it wrong, so slow down! And good planning makes sense especially when 2 operators are involved.

Rogers comments were spot on for a difficult clean!

[Adam Boss]

Easy,
the customers don't dictate to me but ask, if they dictated then they wouldn't get anything cleaned. If they ask and you say no then it gives them no confidence in you ability as a pro. You have a valid reason regarding your illness which is fine but if the insides are really dirty then they wont care if the outsides are dirty so you will loose custom.
I am 99% commercial so insides are a daily routine for me and it's what my contracts require.
Regards

[EasyClean]

Befoe my illness when I was traditional I would ask to have a look if possible before giving a price for internal windows. If asked to estimate a price on the phone for internal windows I would estimate 1.5 times the external price providing the windows had been done on a regular basis beforehand and providing the internal window cills were cleared of ornaments and obstacles in the way otherwise the price would double to compensate for the extra time involved moving furniture/ornaments out of the way for access and to prevent any accidents i.e. knocking over ornaments by accident. I only clean external windows WFP now and yes I have lost some lucrative opportunities because I won't clean internal windows anymore BUT I have accepted that because my health comes first. I am happy with the work/contracts I've got with no regrets because at the end of the day I am still independant, working, earning a decent living and managing to pay my mortgage.

[Tosh]

Befoe my illness when I was traditional I would ask to have a look if possible before giving a price for internal windows. If asked to estimate a price on the phone for internal windows I would estimate 1.5 times ....

Easy, 90% of my work is exterior only; but I do have quite a few jobs that require insides too.

If you can get good paying WFP work that requires the outsides only; I can't see the problem with that at all.

Inside cleaning is a pain; especially in Winter! 

Today, I must've fannied about with those blue plastic overboots; to keep the carpets clean; about five or six times.

They were on, 'cos I had to go into the house; then off; 'cos I needed a Rojak ladder stopper; then on, 'cos I had to go into the house; then off; 'cos I needed more clean scrims; then off 'cos blah blah blah blah... etc!

KISS!  Keep it simple, stupid!

[supernova77]

I always charge 1.5x the amount for an interior job...

But the problem always comes when they ask for a quote for only a few interior windows... It's hard to work out how long they might take.

In future I might just say that I will only clean all interior windows and not a selection if asked.

Andy

[steve k]

Tosh...that was £35 an hour...  is that not good enough...

[supernova77]

Tosh...that was £35 an hour...   is that not good enough... 

No its not!

£70 total divided by 3 hours = £23.333333333333333333333333333333 per hour.

Andy

[Tosh]

Tosh...that was £35 an hour...  is that not good enough...

The first half of the job with WFP was 50 quid for 90 minutes work.

The second half of the job was 20 quid for 90 minutes work; and I worked HARD for that 20 quid.

I had five sections of 8 feet high leaded windows; real leaded windows; each one two foot wide; so in total I had five 8 feet high, two feet wide leaded windows; COVERED IN RUDDY GREASE.

To reach to top sections I was stood, one foot on the second from top rung, of an A Frame ladder.  The top sections were covered in grease and fly poo; so I was there for ages.  My leg muscles were aching (and I run to keep fit) and my feet were hurting from the rungs; and I was wearing rigger boots.

Then two other areas of awkward windows; one area requiring a single set of ladders taken inside the house.

It was just a total pain!

It was in total 3 hours at 70 quid which works out as what Andy says, 23 quid an hour.

I can do a lot more from cleaning small terraced houses.

[supernova77]

I hate jobs like that...

You spend the whole time thinking "maybe I should just make a run for it  "

Andy

[Tosh]

You spend the whole time thinking "maybe I should just make a run for it  "

Exactly!!!

I did find microfibre better than scrim though!  Unfortunately, I only used them for the last set of windows that I hand-bashed.

I am a total idiot!

[jeff1]

Tosh
Just get Wor lass to give you a good slap now and again,  then every time you price a Job, you'll just think to your self ''Now is this worth a good slapping from wor lass, or shall I price it right in the first place, I think these thoughts may Just slow you down to think Positive and avoid a good slapping next time

[JohnL]

and you are moaning for £23 an hour?  I'm sure some would like the opportunity to earn that sort of money!

[Paul Coleman]

But the thing is, when the customer is escorting you round the place; chatting as you go; you don't tend to take that much notice.  And I feel awkward saying, 'I'm going to have another look round; by myself; if that's okay?' 

I prefer it when they show me round and then sod-off; so I can do the quote in slow time.  I'll make sure this happens in future.

That's exactly what I have done for some time now on more complex jobs Tosh.  I have had the customer walk around with me before saying things like "...........and there's another window there and one over there too but that's only a tiny one" etc etc.  I find it a big distraction.  I like to go around again without that distraction and without anyone trying to influence me.  I learned this the hard way too if that's any consolation.

[DaveWilkinson]

I never quote and do a job same day, I like to ring the customer later in the day to give them the price and arrange a time to do it if its accepted, it stops you just pulling a figure out your head on the spot which is normally when you give stupid prices because you feel pressured.

Just tell them you can give them a price later that day but your to busy to work one out now. If they try to pressure you into a price now give them a high one and say because they want it now you have work on a worst case senario.

DAve

[steve k]

ah yes...got my maths wrong

If the outside took an hour and a half at £50, I would have guesstimated the insides at 2 hours so would have charged £60...reduced at the end for the half hour less and the volume of work in one place to £50...so a £100 for the whole job at £33 per hour.

I think the sums are right there...

(I hate doing insides... )

[Tosh]

and you are moaning for £23 an hour?  I'm sure some would like the opportunity to earn that sort of money!

I suppose there are regional differences, but this part of South East Wales is fairly affluent; we're right next to the Wye Valley and there's some posh places about.

I'm moaning about the 20 quid for an-hour-and-a-half part of the job (my fault completely); the vast majority of which were spent with one foot on the second from top rung of an A-Frame ladder; handbashing a multitude of anchient - at full stretch - real leaded windows that were covered in years of fly poo, mould and grease.

I've had easier punishments dished out to me in the army!

[Biscute]

You think you got it bad you wana be me, my round is at least 95% lead and georgan, my customers and old moaning twits and interbead i think. and when i uped the priceses wich are so low, the cheeky gets say well whys that my pention hasnt gone up so why is my windows going up. But i keep my self amused buy my silly pranks and soon to be hostage gnome taking 

[Tosh]

Biscute,

(Biscute is spelt 'biscuit' by the way; if that's what you meant ), I hope you use a WFP?

[Biscute]

nope its a nick name and stuck like that as i am dyslexic and from a kid always wrote it as that. also nope no wfp as of yet.

[Tosh]

nope its a nick name and stuck like that as i am dyslexic and from a kid always wrote it as that. also nope no wfp as of yet.

Biscute,

I feel bad now!  Sorry mate.  Wor Lass is dyslexic also; I know it's not much fun and understand some of the issues surrounding dyslexia.

But blimey, you've gotta get yourself a WFP!  Have you considered a backpack set up?

I got mine for around five or six hundred quid; and I think it's the bees knees.  I've been using it for around 18 months now and it's class. 

It takes some getting used to; just like when you started trad; but when you know what you're doing, you'll fly through those leaded windows.

[Biscute]

not a problem m8 i dont take offence at all, yer im gona get this week out the way then im going to go to cleantech they got a full starter set for 500, looks pritty good in my opinion.

[steve k]

or you could mosey on down to Garston and buy my van and 400 litre wfp system with 2 brand new unused poles from Brodexpoles...i`ll even throw in a cul de sac of  6 semis bringing in £50 for an hour an a half work and some training...£2500

[Biscute]

Steve i dont think im hard enought to work in garston,  but yer i am intrested init email me the info on the van and system or just add me to msn, keithwerbiskey@hotmail.com

[steve k]

Keith...
you have an email...

[Biscute]

Cheers m8

[Clive McDonald]

I laughed at some of your interesting constructions too. I realise now I mean't borrow, not lend.They should have one of those emoticoms with a red face.