[derek west]

going to buy an agitater in january 09.
not to bothered about price but it really has to be the D's B's.
got a sebo duo and its just not got that oomph. find i'm pushing down on it all the time to get right in there on bad soilage.

can people comment on machines they have, maybe with a photo to help me and possibly others who are considering this.

flexi 5 looks good but is the vaccuum worth the extra money, does it vac as good as the sebo b36. could it easily replace both sebo's (vac and duo)

prochem do a pre spray agitator, which also is appealing.

or theres envirodri which just agitates.
i'm sure theres others!

as you can see its swings and roundabouts but at £1000 to £2000 i want to get it right.
some advice so i can make my mind up would be gratfully accepted.

yours
a confused

derek

[gwrightson]

roto wash is what I use on most carpets, great aggitation and supberb for hard floors.

truvox  , pretty good and a little lighter or host .

I have started to use my cimex for aggitation in the larger areas,

geoff

[Mike Osbourne]

Derek

I thought this might be a thread about Truckmounters.

Can't you just turn up your pressure?

[Carpet Genie]

Hi Derek,

I used to have a duo and upgraded to an Envirodri in October this year - it cost about £1100 with an additional set of brushes but i have to say it's now the most treasured item on my van.
I use it on every job and there are times after i've used it where i look at the carpet and don't think i need to do anything else!  It's that good.  The pile gets rejuvinated and looks fantastic - it even does a great job on low profile carpets - i cleaned some offices the other day using it with the new prochem procaps stuff. It looked great and i just finihsed it off with a bonnet.

I can't comment on the other ones but i was looking at the Prochem one myself but plumped for the Envirodri after reading some excellent reviews on this forum.  Knowing Prochem though i'm sure that their machine will also be excellent.

[mark shannon]

Yep agree Envirodry the DBs like the white and gold brushes.

Mark

[derek west]

so an envirodri is basically a flexi 5 without the vac, do you think i would benefit from the vac? or again with the prochem but with a pre sprayer? i presume there all fantastic agitaters, the nitty gritty is, would the extra pounds for the add ons, (and which one is another one of my dilemmas) benefit me, and cut down my other equipment, or........... you know the rest.
sorry but i do occasional dither over certain purchases, especially when its 4 figures ££££££.
derek

[davep]

Lookin for an enviodri myself, maybe we can get a discount if buying 2..

[PaulKing]

go get a trail or at least a half hour go on one,  and work it out, you are the best judge of what would work for you.

Sure all the suppliers will be more than happy to help

[Joe H]

You best ring JK in the New Year as to the availability of the Flexi 5, cause Ive heared what Mike H posted on another thread (they may not be available)

[cleaningmaster]

I thought you had bought a RX

[derek west]

i have.
derek

[cleaningmaster]

Well how much agitation do you need,
i thought this was the dog`s doodarrs

Daryl

[Mike Halliday]

this was posted by John Bolton on cleantalk about thier CRB which I believe is the same as the flexi5;

Despite a protracted development period, we became aware of certain intrinsic weaknesses with the machine and took the decision to withdraw it from sale until the problems were resolved.

Subsequently the manufacturers decided to withdraw the machine from market and none are currently being imported under any brand name.

[derek west]

daryl
just use the rx  for commercial , all though i'm not getting much commercial at the mo but its early days, want the agitation for domestic and small offices. sebo doesn't do it for me. and the rx is a bit too heavy and cumbersome for small areas.

mike
do you think it has something to do with the vac and the prespray agitation, my guess would be the 2 don't mix well especially as the vac is a dry vac.

looks like i'll have to take a look at the envirodri or the prochem prespray agitator, anyone know the price of the prochem one, can't find it as i don't know its exact name.


derek

[davep]

http://www.cleansmartsupplies.co.uk/acatalog/Fibredri.html

[Joe H]

Derek
the Flexi5 and the similar one that was on sale from Solutions UK are no difference in principle to the more expensive Host.

You vacuum with the brushes working only in the dry situation.
You wouldnt want to vac the prespray would you. (think about it).

So, with the Envirodri, and small Sebo, you would need to agitate to loosen dry dirt, then get the vac onto it.

With the combined units you do this in one action, thus saving time, then you prespray and then agitate only (vac off)..

So, Once you prespray, you use the agitation only, to help the fluid do its job.

They were good value for money, but as Mike has reported, their seems to be a problem.

Spencer Davies took one of the new Prochem, but I think that went back with a problem. Whether he got a replacement - dont know and he doesnt seem to frequent here much now to answer..

[derek west]

yeah joe, i know they dont vac when wet, just thought thats where the problem lay, mixing the 2 at diff times, evntually some moisture may get in there somewhere, just a guess as to why theyve been decommisioned.
is the host a pre spray agitater or is it dry compound only?( I'll google it to see what it looks like)
also what do you use for agitation?
derek

[Joe H]

Host are only Ellesmere Port way (Capenhurst) - Host Von Schrader is the full name www.hostvonschrader.co.uk

Very expensive - with the vac pod it lists at about £3k.

I have the Envirodri Gen4

18 months ago I had both the Host and Envirodri demoed.
Couldnt see much difference between the two really. Host, I suppose, looks classy, but at a price.

I bought as an agitator, but also to do the occassional "dry" clean using the sponges where it was necessary/suitable.

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Derek

I also currently use the sebo for agitation - from what I have been told by many cleaners who use the Envirodri, it is a big step up in terms of it's weight and performance.

As such it is on my wish list although I don't know if I can stretch to a new one just yet - been looking out for a decent 2nd hand one. I do know that the manufacturers have some good deals on ex-demo ones though.

Steve

[mark shannon]

They did picked up one for £250  18mths ago as new

Those days i think are over. but worth a call.

[John Kelly]

The Flexi Five is exclusive to Chemspec. Solutions never had any to sell yet were advertising them at reduced price.

[pete sween]

You can still get them cheaper for the recon models (they have only been used once or twice at exhibitions) but you only get 3 months warranty instead of the usual 12. I know the owner well (even have me on their website as recommended) so happy to put in a call for you but as Mark said, you won't get them at that price any more, more like 4 or 500 but thats still half price.

Pete

[cleaningmaster]

All,
Do you think that all this agitation is really nessasary?
Dont you think that damage could be caused by agitating a carpet for 20mins or so ie de-twisting the pile, whether it be a "z"or "s" twist, due to the heat generated through the brushes.
I`ve seen it done with a slow speed roto when bonnet cleaning, NO not by me.

Chemspec recommend that when using their products that you only give a light agitate, and when you are spot cleaning you only blot and not rub.

I`ve used a Host machine some yrs ago, when we were given a demo, and i was shocked at how much lint came off the carpet (it was an old carpet we were using) i would dread to think what it would be like on a new`ish one, it really made the carpet look more "fluffy,"not in a good way but as the top of the pile had been damaged. It really was different to the other half of the carpet, that we HWE, as we could have a comparison.

IMO i think that if you have to agitate that long the products cant be that good, probably get the same results with water.
Has anyone tried this??
It would be interesting to hear from someone who has tried this......
but would they be honest with their results, if they did.

Regards
Daryl

[mark shannon]

Agree to some extent Daryl only agitate on very dirty.

Light work in of prespray with carpet brush seems to do the trick on most.

However a good agitating machine should IMO be in your arsenal.

Mark

[Joe H]

Dont know of any product that requires 20 minutes agitation!
Are you getting mixed up with dwell time?

20 minutes spent on a domestic sized carpet agitating is a long time, and of course the machine is not stationary in one spot.

and I would imagine there is a difference between lifting a pile as with CRB, and the possible shear action caused by the swirl of a rotary.

With spot cleaning you are looking for transfer of the spot.
With agitation you are looking to get the cleaning fluid in deep down and around the fibre so it can disolve the sticky dirt so it can be rinsed out.

[derek west]

daryl
interesting post, i wait for some good replies to this.

thanks for all the info, looks like i'm swinging towards envirodri allthough not heard much about the prochem one yet. if i go enviro, then yes pete, wouldn't mind a good word put in. cheers for that. think i'll wait the outcome and comments from daryls post,


derek

[davep]

Pete put my name in the hat for an ex demo one too please 

[mark shannon]

Envirodry is i think sold with white brushes which i find to be very harsh on domestics,  gold or white and gold brushes should keep you out of trouble.

Pete i think it was you who posted about ex demos and i bought mine the next day thanks .

Warranty i think void anyway if you use to agitate prespray.

Mark

[james roffey]

I have been looking for a Host or Envirodry for 3 months now on Ebay host went for £380 and it was 13 years old! silly money will probably have to buy Envirodry new, both very sought after second hand.

[Ken Wainwright]

I've been using an Envirodri E40 for about 5 years. Before that it was many years with a Host T6. IMO, the weight of the Envirodri is beneficial.

Pile damage?  None for me. I use predominantley the softest Gold brushes. Superb job. The standard white, or often even the Chipmunk, are too agressive for wool and many nylons and could cause pile burst and excessive shedding. The white brush is great on cut pile polyprops for opening the flattened pile and removing a little more fibrous soiling. Use this for commercial loop nylons and polyprops.

Never use the stiff blacks on any polyprop. I only use them on Flotex, both dry and wet. Superb.

Like many other users, I initially had a mind set that the stiffer the brush, the better the cleaning side of the job. WRONG The softest brush will usually perform all the pile lifting you want in a safe way, and the aforementioned JB likens the solution distribution of soft brushes as being more like applying  paint with a paintbrush as opposed to trying to do it with a stiff scrubbing brush. Much better job. Regardless of the explanation, soft brushes work best.

I clean many wool carpets every year and have not seen any signs of premature wear due to my agitation methods.

With the Envirodri and the Host, you can work with the handle from both sides of the machine. The last Prochem Fibredri machine I used was probably a nicer, quieter performer (but not better), but you could only work from one side of the machine, and not with the handle vertical either. Also, Prochem more expensive than Envirodri, but cheaper than Host.

Although rarely seen, the Host T6 replacement (Reliant?) without an attached vac, is probably still available.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

PS I may know of a lightly used E40 for about £400.

[cleaningmaster]

I thought that when you are spot cleaning you have to get the solution to the bottom of the pile to release it from there?

regarding the agitation folks on here have said (on other threads) that you have to "go for it" and keep" going for it " for 20mins whether it is shearing(this only happened because they hadn`t used enough prespray, too dry) or the stiffness of the brushes of the CRB, you cant really expect me or anyone to believe this is good for the carpet!

With the amount of equipment everyone recommends that they should have/carry around they will be turning up at customers in a 16 wheeler!!!

All i`m saying is if you cant get a excellent result with the correct chemicals, a bit of agitation and a truckmount(and a good porty....sorry derek) then all that agitation/expence is a waste of time and money.

It does make me wonder how many people on here, and other forums, work for or get commision off some suppliers for the amount of kit they say to carry around, mainly towards the Newbies.

Regards

Daryl

[Joe H]

With the amount of equipment everyone recommends that they should have/carry around they will be turning up at customers in a 16 wheeler!!!

It does make me wonder how many people on here, and other forums, work for or get commision off some suppliers for the amount of kit they say to carry around, mainly towards the Newbies.

Regards
Daryl

Daryl
16 wheeler - made me chuckle.  Feel like I need one at times.
I like to carry 2 wands - one glided 2 jet, and an unglided 4 jet. Different carpets, different wands.
Also, too many cleaning products.  Got stuff from Chemspec, Hydramaster, Alltec, Solutions, Craftex, Prochem, Amtech and probably three or four more when leather stuff included.

Re the other point........ Dont know of anyone in that situation. but personally, much rather be a free agent so I can choose what I want to use, when I want to use it.

[pete sween]

Daryl

I am guessing that your comments re commission are aimed (in part) at me. I have arranged for a few people to get envirodries at this cheaper rate and hopefully some of them are reading and will corroborate this. I really can't be arsed with making a few quid commission to help people out. How many on here have I helped with interenet advertising (a topic I know a fair bit about) and this has taken up hours of my time but because many others have helped me in areas where my skills are low than I am happy to do my bit back.

Think about what you say before you say things and more importantly who they are directed at because those who know me will simply shoot you down in flames when I am just trying too help people out.

Oh and by the way, judging from Dereks posts I would hardly put him in newbie status. He might not have been doing it long but he seems to have picked up alot more than alot of CCs near me that have been doing it for years.

Derek,

Ring envirodri yourself and ask for Gills or Gill and say I told you to call them and this will be enough for them to look after you. As for the damage element to carpet these machines have been rigously tested and that the different types of brushes are there for different types of fibre. The gold brshes are softer than those of a tampico brush so that comment made earlier is way off. Get yourself an envirodri or if you can afford it go for the Flexi 5. Your performance levels will be way through the roof mate.

Good luck
Pete

[cleaningmaster]

Joe
I was like that with chems, but since i`v had the TM i have cut right back.

I stand corrected regarding the CRB, i didnt know they had soft brushes.
Thats my point.. people are telling others what machine to get but not telling the whole story if i didnt know, how would anyone else?? it wasnt untill Mark said that everyone else did. So Derek (and others)may have been able to save themselves some money by ordering the machine with the brushes they needed.

After saying that i still won be getting one, i`ll stick with my slow speed roto,with soft brushes, if i need it. How many slow speed roto`s can you buy for the price of a CRB
As i said how much agitation do you need ??

Daryl

[Joe H]

For Daryl and others

Envirodri and Host do 5 sets of brushes.
Envirodri cost about £90 for 2 (a set), Host is about £170 per set of 2.
The Prochem machine has 3 sets of brushes (I think) costing about £90 per set.

For Envirodri and Host the colours are

Black - harsh and to be used on hard floors- tiles etc (Ken W. used them on Flotex as well).
Black/White harder then white
White - standard brushes as supplied
White/Gold bit softer then white
Gold  for wool

With Prochem the black is the softest

[mark shannon]

Like all our cleaning equipment these £100 brushes are a real bargain 

[Joe H]

Mark - sometimes I wonder how some can justify prices.

[cleaningmaster]

Pete
My comments are not directed towards you as i didnt know, and yes you have helped me regarding yell which i thank you for.
Why are you taking it so personal when i didnt know???
I know you have given your time for nothing but ,lets be honest,how many people out there are like that, in my experiance not many.
 Sorry if i tarred everyone with the same brush.
What i am saying is that when people give information through the forum they should try to be a bit more specific ie buy that machine with  that brush or this machine with this brush.
Not buy this machine or that machine and when they have , then turn around and say well you should have bought this as well.

Daryl

[Andrew Briscoe]

Derek, you could take a look at the Orbot, not quite an agitation machine, but will clean a multitude of floors
http://www.ukcleaningsystems.com/

Andrew.

[Carpet Genie]

Derek,

I've been using the Envirodri for about 3 months now and yes you do get some carpet residue brought up by the machine but not a huge amount when using the soft brushes.  I've used it on every job in the last three months and every one has commented on how good the carpet looked prior to any extraction.
I've not had any call backs either complaining that the carpet is in any way damaged.
I think you just have to be careful which brushes you use.

Good luck with your choice.

[Joe H]

Is it a bad thing having the agitator bringing up residue?

That residue will contain dirt particles that you want to get rid of.

and if the machine didnt lift them out to be vaccd away, some (but probably not all) will be sucked into your machine waste tank anyway.

[cleaningmaster]

Pete
as i said last night i was not directing my comments towards you in particular just in general.
Afterall i thought that this and other forums was for the purpose of airing their views, opinions and observations. If we had to watch what we said all the time, whatever happened to "Freedom of Speech"?

Oh by the way the word "Newbies" is what Derek uses to decribe himself in his posts, not by me.

Derek, just something else for you to ponder, another twist

If the RX20 is too big, have you thought about the RV360? it seems to have good reports from those who use them.
I am the same as Mark as i use a carpet brush for nearly all my jobs, but i have  slow speed rotary for the real manky ones.
As you know, these are similar to the machine that Andrew suggested.

Yes they are basic, old fashioned, etc, etc but thats no bad thing. Tried and tested.They are reliable, sturdy, good value (well under £1000) and very versatile,
You can....
Agitate carpets,
Bonnet clean,
low profile carpets,
Strip and clean Amptico / Hard floors,
Clean Stone floors,
Clean and Polish Wood floors,
Clean and Polish Marble floors.
What more do you want?

But its your money and your choice

Good luck with your choice.

Regards

Daryl

 

[Ken Wainwright]

Daryl

I don't mean to make this sound personal as what I am about to say is addressing some of your comments above, but also highlights how many of us will offer opinion on matters where we have no or little real world experience. And I include myself in that group.

Agitation is an integral part of the cleaning pie. The better the safe agitation, the better the job. I am not just refering to the amount of soil removed, but also the amount of alien fibrous material along with the enhanced finished appearance of the "lifted" pile.  You can also include in this the ease and speed of the rinse.

A T/M has a reduced need for pre-spray agitation as much of this is provided by the final rinse which will not only impact the carpet at elevated pressure but also in volumes much higher than any conventional portable could cope with.

However, although a porty user myself, I have worked also with colleagues' T/M's, both entry level and high end, and after carrying out our own field trials, came to the conclusion that CRB agitation in particular is beneficial to the overall cleaning and finished result and with lower water and running consumption/costs of the T/M. The trade off for this is the extra time (and hence cost) taken for agitation, but you do spend less time rinsing.

Finally, a rotary machine is a superb tool for agitation. I also use one of these myself. A soft brush isn't necessary as a stiffer polypropylene scrubbing brush, as recommended by Ron Tilley of Prochem, performs better. Also superb for agitation on these machines are various pads such as soft floor pads, microfibre and carpet skimming pads. Logic says that these shouldn't work, but you'll change your mind once you've tried them. However, extra care is needed when using a rotary on many residential grade  carpets in particular. It is very easy to "swirl damage" the pile. The IWS and since then Woolsafe do not approve of many rotary processes on wool pile carpets.  Rotaries can also be an absolute pain to carry upstairs.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[cleaningmaster]

Ken,
Thanks for a great reply.
As you have said we all have limited knowledge on all machines, and mine is CRB
machines. What i am really trying to do is to stop people like Derek from making another expensive purchase/mistake on a machine, that, does he really need?

Regarding the "swirl damage"caused by a roto machine, i would have to agree, that this can easily be caused by having the carpet too dry or more importantly the person on the end of the handles, is not trained.
Also this goes back to my earlier post, i`m sure that if a person buys a CRB with the wrong (to hard) brushes, and does not know any difference, could/would cause  damage to carpets.

Any machine you have to carry upstairs is a pain

Regards

Daryl
 

[JandS]

I have a powerbrush by Stimvac but quickly found that it was a pain to use in most domestics especially upstairs.
Find that a good carpet brush and wand are more than adequate for most houses.
Also thought that it was too aggressive on some carpets and tended to spoil the pile.
Now rarely use it even for commercials, find manual brushing far quicker.
Used to use it for both agitation and then extraction.

Regards
           John

[Jim_77]

Interesting debate   I have two lots of two pence worth to add

Firstly, regarding agitation causing shedding of fibre from an old piece of carpet.  The fibre is already loose, it isn't part of the carpet any more!  It has become broken off due to wear, and has just remained entangled in the "good" fibres.  You don't get this on newer carpets, obviously as long as you're not using too coarse a brush.

Secondly about the torsional effect of a rotary on a carpet's pile.  How many directions is the pad travelling in when it is in contact with the one tuft of a carpet?  One!  The only possible place a rotary-driven bonnet pad can be literally "twisting" a carpet tuft is slap bang in the centre of the bonnet.  But in this location, there is no pressure on the bonnet as most drive boards have a hole in the middle.  I'd think the most common mistakes during rotary cleaning that cause damage are not having the carpet damp enough for sufficient lubrication, and dwelling in one place for too long.

Having said all that, on a very new-looking carpet where the tufts are still fairly tightly twisted, I won't use a rotary or any mechanical agitation - partly because I don't want to cause any wearing problems, but also because generally if it's in that good a condition it isn't going to need the agricultural treatment to do the job.  Vacuum, pre-spray and a quick working in with a grandi-groomer is generally all that's required.

On a real minger, yes you're going to need to bring out the big guns.  As I've already posted elsewhere recently, I've scrubbed Axminsters with a stiff polyprop brush before.  The carpet is already half trashed so you're going to need to break a few eggs to make the omlette, aren't you?  It's all down to judgement and a bit of common sense - as long as you're ending up with a positive outcome for the customer, you're doing the job correctly.

[Buster Ingram]

You name it and I have used it from cylindrical brushes to  17” rotaries and I have to say it’s the look on the clients face that tells me which is the best to use.
As ken will tell you the cylindrical brush system is by far the best for raising the pile and removing the loose fibres, but in the customers eyes your thinning their carpets all they see is their carpet in your brushes when you have finished scrubbing in the pre-spray , and what a ball ache it is to remove from the bristles.
I know full well  from using my Host machine 10 years ago with the onset of One Step micro splitters.
I went on to using a rotary with all different brushes and pads and as some will tell you they are a pain to carry up stairs! Then came the orbital  Orick with its brush and pad system this I found more user friendly in domestic situation as it is more controllable than a conventional rotary machine in confined spaces, agitates the pile better without removing too much loose pile and is more universal then a cylindrical brush  so far as to say you can pad clean with them too.
But that’s only my oppion

[derek west]

swirls marks are an issue as i have read many posts where guys have said, "come up nice but took us ages to groom the swirls marks out"

seen a couple of pictures where the agitater was connected to the cleaning machine (tm or portable) so it was spraying agitating (with crb action) and extracting at the same time, was i halucinating or is there such a machine, and if so whats it called so i can take a look?
derek

[mark shannon]

Yeah Powerbrush heard there not great but never used one.

[Ken Wainwright]

Derek

Although effective, these powerbrush wands do have a draw back. The routine with presprays is to apply, agitate, dwell then rinse.

A powerbrush wand will agitate and rinse in one go, so areas that need extra agitation have lost their pre-spray and you loose on the dwell time too.  You could use a powerbrush wand just for the agitating without a rinse/extract, but they're typically too cumbersome for that and not as effective as a more dedicated agitator. They are, however, very effective when used as a rinse/extract tool on trashed carpets, esp restaurants/bars etc.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[cleaningmaster]

Derek
Swirl marks can be a pain to get rid of,especialy if they have been left to long before you "groom" the carpet, small section at a time, but with the suction power of the truck mount they shouldnt be to bad. Do you have a problem getting the triangular wand marks out? around the same kind of problem

Regards

Daryl

[derek west]

daryl
i leave them in, they look cool.
maybe i shouldn't but not had a complaint so far.
i never normally groom afterwards, carpets nearly dry and i'm guessing they come out with the next vac by customer,

waiting for a backlash of comments, eek!
derek

[cleaningmaster]

They dont usually!

Any closer to making your mind up or not going to bother with a machine,(roto-£600--- CRB- £3000) and buy a brush(£20) 

Daryl

[mark shannon]

I think envirodrys about a grand Daryl.

[cleaningmaster]

Mark
Your right, ;)i just rememberd Joe`s post regarding the Host

[derek west]

going for a cheap envirodri i think, sounds like i'll get one for 4 or £500, not definate yet, how easy is it to clean the brushes and change them over, any one know?
derek

[Mike Osbourne]

Do orbitals leave more or less swirls then?

I use a sebo and I think using MS a lot I'd be better off with something like an oreck orbiter and the cleaning of the sebo gets very tiresome after a while.

Derek

You are a naughty boy leaving triangles, you could use a wand technique that doesn't leave them if you can't be arsed to groom.

[Joe H]

Derek
Have you been in touch with Envirodri re their refurbs.?
About 18 months ago they introduced the Gen4 - new design and in black.
It was after that there came to be refurbs of the older blue ones.
I wouldnt be suprised to hear that the refurbs have dried up.

As for changing th e brushes.
THE host is easy peasy.
The Envirodri a bit fiddly. Knock 2 long pins out, remove/change brushs, replace pins.
Thats where the fiddly bit is - might go easy one time, then its a pain to get alignment.

[derek west]

mike
i like my triangles, there uniformed.
joe
youve just put me off, why don't they make them easy, is it the same with the gen4 one?
derek

[mark shannon]

Takes a couple of mins to change brushes on my E30

[Joe H]

Mark must have the knack.
Dont let it put you off - you asked was it easy to change brushes.
I said a bit fiddly, Mark says its ok.  2 different views, thats all.
Yes, it was the Gen4 I was describing. Thats what I got.

[Carpet Genie]

Derek,
I've got an envirodri and it takes about 2 minutes to clean the brushes - there are two pins which need to be knocked out to remove the brushes - never had a problem getting them back in. They just slide back in - the brushes need to be in the right place but it's not difficult.

[james roffey]

I phoned  them up last week and the envirodry is £1000 + vat it does not seem to be a lot of gear for that money, but does seem worthwhile using one, just wish i could get a used one somewhere, if anyone is selling one please let me know.

[mark shannon]

James i will get shot down but like most of our gear IMO its a ridiculous amount of money 

[des]

envirodri I would not be cleaning carpet,s if i did not have one .Ive got the small one and thats got enough weight Des

[John Kelly]

These machines are actually a carpet cleaning system. They are designed to carry out carpet cleaning using dry granules. Believe it or not there are a lot of cleaners out there using this system as a stand alone business. And a very succesfull one at that. One of my customers is actually franchising his business and has about 7 or 8 franchises on board already. Pre vaccing, pre spraying and then granule cleaning I am amazed at some of the results they are achieving.
That is why they are priced as they are. For £1000 - £3000 they are capable of making you 20 to 60 times the return. In this case it is a very low cost investment. Of course if you are just buying it as an agititator it does seem expensive. You can buy a brush for 20 quid. does the same job just a bit harder but keeps you fit

[clinton]

James

Like most of the cleaning gear thats is at the top money wise does not come up v often as there are less sold from new :

[mark shannon]

John i would have thought they are primarily used and sold as agitating machines and a bit of granule cleaning when needed, or is the dry market that big?

[cleaningmaster]

Mark
Now i am going to really stick my neck out and i will have to duck because of the flack.......
but i`ll have to say it , i know i shouldn`t but i will.......its because its not as good!

there i`ve said it

oh poo what have i done?

Daryl

Ps anyone got a hard hat???

[clinton]

 

[John Kelly]

Common sense tells you that dry granule cleaning isn't as good or thorough than hot water extraction. But you have seen how clean the carpets look after agitating a pre-spray. Now take that a step further with the granule clean and you have a happy customer. Seen it, believe it and the proof is in the pudding.

[John Kelly]

Don't forget Chem-Dry have a 5 billion Dollar business built on the word "Dry".

[cleaningmaster]

John
glad you didnt take the JOKE seriously

Daryl

[John Kelly]

Mark, they are sold as granule cleaning systems. A lot of commercial customers such as councils, hotels etc buy them for ongoing maintenance cleans. The suppliers want to make money on the on going sale of granules, pre-sprays, spotters etc as well as the machines. Its only recently that people have been buying them for agitation. Don't forget the warranty is void on some of these if used for wet agitating. There is a market for this type of cleaning and it is actually at a higher rate than hwe. Like I say I know people who do this full time and are doing very well. Stainbusters is another succesfull outfit and they just bonnet clean.

[John Kelly]

Daryl, we know that it isn't a thorough as hwe and never will be but at the end of the day these guys have happy customers and are getting well paid. It has certainly opened my eyes to the benefits of the system.

[cleaningmaster]

John
I know it may have its place in the market. but IMHO i cant see it, i dont think that it "cleans", and i wont give my customers an inferior clean.
As you say it "looks" clean, but is it clean?
Or is it they sell it because it , as you say, is DRY, no wet carpets, etc etc

I know i may be losing money by not giving this kind of service,but i cant give a service i dont believe in, i have to be true to myself.


Regards

Daryl

[John Kelly]

I know what you mean Daryl. Don't forget even hwe doesn't "clean" the carpet. You only have to hose down a rug after extracting it even 4 or 5 times and see how much crap still comes out of it. When I was doing it was sometimes 20 minutes before the water ran clear.

[cleaningmaster]

John
If granuals does`nt clean and HWE does`nt clean then what are we all doing??

And what are you doing selling carpet"cleaning" chemicals?
THAT WAS A JOKE
This forum would be called DRY it up or WET it up

You watch how many come up with other ideas!!!

regards

Daryl

[cleaningmaster]

John
One question i have always wanted answering, and seeing that with your experiance, cleaning /selling, your just the man i would have thought is......

How do they get the granuals to stick to the vertical surfaces on Upholstry and using a CRB on it , must be a right bugger 

Daryl

[mark shannon]

Johns right at the end of the day "Happy Customers" is all that counts and lets face it we have all had some who are happy after the prevac.

[John Kelly]

They use a Host Von Shrader (sp) machine for upholstery cleaning after first pre-spraying with Microsplitter.
And what you are doing regardless of what method you use is "carrying out a cleaning process". This was drummed into me by Bill Lakin who taught me most of what I know and is now Chem-Dry's training director. Also one time chairman of the NCCA I believe.

[John Kelly]

Also why you should never say you have sanitised a carpet. Always state that you have treat the carpet with whatever product you've used.

[cleaningmaster]

To some degree, but dont you have to be happy with the clean you give or is it how much money you have releived your customers of.
I have used the word "clean"and not "service" as not to confuse the issue.

You have to ask yourself the question,"could you go into a customers house and give a inferior clean and charge them more for it"?
I`m affraid i cant.

I`m also sure that the people talk there customers into having it done their way because its DRY, because its DRIER than a WET clean etc etc and not because its an inferior clean. I bet they dont go in there by saying thats its not a thorough clean or "you do know that there are much better cleans about that i can ever give you"

As i said i have to be true to myself, thats it!

Regards

Daryl

[cleaningmaster]

John
the post regarding the upholsty was ment to be a joke.
I know what they use
I was with SM for almost 19yrs, so i did quite a bit of training with them and came across a few "cleaning" methods, but they only stuck with the one.
Also, unfortunately, they only used their products.
Thats why now i`m getting the best results i ever have done, or seem to be anyway.
I also had it drummed into me that every thing we do is a "cleaning process".

Some are better than others

Daryl

[clinton]

What mark posted before was also right as many times the customer has come in the room and says it looks great and thats just with the pre vac

[Joe H]

You are providing a cleaning service, no matter what type of cleaning process you are using.

but no matter what you use, the carpet/suite will not be the same cleanliness as it was when it was new.
We get their carpet/suite cleaner - and very acceptably clean.

Rotaries and pads have the reputation of transferring dirt to the pad, but spreading other dirt more evenly about.
and rotaries are used a lot in commercial as you know.

I have used my Envirodri as the manufacturer intended - with their granules. And it works.
Used it twice in the last 3  months due to circumstances., and achieved a good result in mine and the clients eyes.
It is more expensive then HWE, due to cost of granules. It may take a bit longer as well.
But some customers ask for it to be done, and therefore they have to pay for it to be done.

Obviously pre-vacuuming to a high degree is imperative, the less loose dirt left in the carpet means the granules can work more on the sticky dirt. So you have to adjust the work method perhaps to suit this type of cleaning.

Dwell time is important too, so the granules can do their job, and then dry so they can be vacuumed up.
Need to explain to client that they may see granules appearing but they get vacd up easily as a matter of their routine cleaning.

Prefer HWE, but I have another string to my bow so to speak in the "dry" system.

[robert meldrum]

A good thread to start the year off.............

I loved the little Klanz machine which was sold alongside the original m/s product on the UK market and the CFR.

Foolishly I chucked mine out when an employee damaged it and I thought I was escaping from c/c. That was about 4 years ago and I'm still wanding.


Daryl

There is no PERFECT we and the products / systems, we use just offer IMPROVEMENT, but I'm sure you have often left a job feeling you had returned the fabric / fibres to their original state, even if only in the eye of the beholder.

[John Kelly]

Daryl, I knew it was meant as a joke. I replied as some of the new starters who lurk on here may not have knew. It is a question I get asked quite a lot.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

I am seriously considering having a go at building a dry cleaning offshoot.

I have 3 websites aimed at this and think there is definitely potential from the enquiries received.

Cheers

Doug

[robert meldrum]

Doug

You must know of John  Geurkink whose been o/p ing for 30 years, with great success and the " main man " in encap cleaning. I know the Cimex might have higher productivety, but the " Padman's " system removes, as it cleans, to a greater extent.

[JandS]

The powerbrush is a great idea but it's cumbersome.
You can agitate with it, let it dwell then extract just turn the vaccuum off and don't pull the solution lever while you agitate.
Or disconnect from machine while agitating.
When extracting it jets the water in, the brushes pass over agitating the extraction solution and the vac brings up the rear.
Great on heavy soiling.

John

[Paul_Ashworth]

Ken,
Could you please find out if the used Enviro dri is still available ??

If it is could you please send details by private E-mail to phashworth@tiscali.co.uk

Many Thanks
Paul Ashworth

Carpet Care Chorley

[gwrightson]

You know I had forgot how good the power brush are,

shall have to get mine out and give it a go for a change instead of stuck at back of shed.

Geoff

[Ken Wainwright]

Paul

Email sent

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Paul_Ashworth]

Ken,
Nothing has arrived yet 

Cheers Paul

[premiermaids]

I too would be interested in an recon/ ex-demo Envirodri if anyone can help.

Regards

Jim

[Ken Wainwright]

Paul

Call me on 0121 445 4247. I won't post the sellers details as someone might beat you to it

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken