[carpetguy]

Ian

I'm sure you are as aware as I am, that someone who is " self taught "and had no formal training, will find it difficult to go along to what they perceive as " beginner's level " courses, in case they make a fool of themselves.

I've suggested before, that such a situation could easily be overcome, by adopting a self study program, for the early to intermediate levels, allowing absolutely anyone to overcome any shyness / lack of confidence / or, whatever.

I've been there, myself, but attended many, none the less and was the old geezer on the IICRC course and the only one to pass, first time.

[Neil Grainger]

Derek

No offence was ment by my comments. I was just pointing out the these sorts of Organisations are run by older people who have been successful in their Business and want to share with others and have the time to do it.

Most young people dont do it because they dont have time because they are building business up, have young family and are still married

A point I would like to make is that why dont the NCCA have a grading system as regards membership, because if they are truly after the proffesionals within the industry to join, and want to make Carpet Cleaning a truly respected industry they would have different levels of membership.

Junior Membership New to 2 Years
Full Membership 2-5Years
Senior Member 5 Years onwards.

What upsets me is that you can have no experience, never cleaned, pass an exam and be a member and have all that comes along with it.   

To me this is misleading to a customer because you are saying they are certified and proffesional. But what are they really certified in, maybe good at exams but no good at cleaning. We have all come accross people with all the qualifications in the world that cant change a plug and the NCCA are no different in this because of the way they are structured.

If a customer ever asks me about the NCCA and why I am not a member I explain this to them and they are amazed that it is so easy to become certified.

In my eyes you are misleading the public, but you say this Organisation is not for the public, If that was the case none of these guys would have NCCA plastered over everything the market.

Would love to join as I see lots of advantages but the negative outway the positive within the current system of joining the club.

[carpetguy]

I think your comment about grading membership have merit Neil and your thinking is closer than you might think to mine and probably many others.

[ianharper]

Guys

My advise would be

1. free membership. the money lost from this would be made up from course fee's with membership levels starting with student, then full member and so on. BICSC make loads of money this way and I don't know why they still charge annual fee's?
2. a nation recognised certification. like city & guilds. i sat mine as a open learning by post. and sat hands on and written exams at national recognised centres. it would not take much to put a extra module on to the cleaning science course.
3. A volunteer commitment for all members to promote the values to the public though their marketing, local chapters doing charity work in the local areas to gain publicity for the NCCA. min hours each year.

Respect

Ian Harper



 

[carpetguy]

I think Ian's FREE membership ( resricted ) could work and his description of what's going on elsewhere, is exactly what I've been suggesting for some time.

Regulation, WILL come in and it's better to have an industry standard ( graduated through 4 or  5 levels before regulation.

Although I hate being regulated, there are advantages, particularly, the elimination of cowboy operators, through heavily promoting the INSURANCE / HEALTH / GREEN aspects.

[Derek]

If the NCCA offered free membership then I would leave...immediately

I agree with the comments about members being suitably qualified but you are then imposing even more restrictions that many on the forums (and this thread) object to...

It OK thinking you are professional but who is the judge of that....

Neil...I wasn't offended hence my tongue in cheek reply 

[Neil Grainger]

Derek

If you dont have a tyred system than its a sham as regards a professional body. It needs to be more forward thinking witch was actualy my point to begin with.

Old Heads no new idea's. Young Heads new idea's but may make mistakes.

[Terry_Burrows]

I think you make a valid point Neil :

[prodry]

Does the NCCA produce any form of annual report as it not a charity or a limited company. Does anyone have a copy of this? I am interested in joining although would like to know how the membership and other fees are spent. I did ask the NCCA direct some time ago and was brushed off.

[Liahona]

Prodry, I was brushed off as well.  I feel it is the public that needs to be informed about this or any organization.  To say it is for us as cleaners.  Big deal!!! It needs to kick Joe Public to be aware of our services not ourselves.  I commented on another thread about this so wont again on here but if the N.C.C.A. is looking at this thread and the other one then feel free to comment.  Especially on the other thread cos its the reasons on there that gets my goat.  Best, Dave.

[stevegunn]

Neil has made some valid points ref different levels of membership maybe the directors should take them on board.

[Derek]

Old heads Neil?....don't underestimate older people (you will be one  some day soon)... that remark also smacks of ageism.

You quite obviously don't know me very well at all 'young man'

[prodry]

I stand corrected NCCA is a limited company with no share capital. So no divedends are paid to any shareholders. I shall buy a copy of the companies house report tommorrow to see if I can answer my own questions, unless any of the members, directors have a copy of there AGM  they are willing to share.

CARPET CLEANERS ASSOCIATION LIMITED(THE)
62C LONDON ROAD
OADBY
LEICESTERSHIRE LE2 5DH
Company No. 01724576

[carpetguy]

Why are some of you so hostile about an association which is the only one likely to help drive the industry towards credibility.
I think Neil could be persuaded to attend an open seminar/ roadshow type meeting as many others might.
I only read excellent reports about D B and K W and although I'm approaching 62 I clearly remember my arrogance  / confidence / conceit, call it what you will, when I was in my late teens and early twenties, but it was only, when a little older, I appreciated the reality of .........older people have worn virually all the T shirts you'll come accross, some with different names, but the situations have repeated for centuries and will continue.......
What I suggest and the only reason I nevr joined was geographical, is the NCCA arrange a few roadshows and that you all get along to them, meet the people and talk, listen, sonsider, act.

ps
Just noticed Andy Foster's post below

[prodry]

Carpetguy I dont think anyone is out to get them, however we have an industry with very little credibility, no customer education, and 1000's of splash and dash uninsured cowboys.

Surely the way to solve this is with a large national association that useses it resouces for that purpose. By resources I mean money and its members.

Not a days training and a sticker!

I have been involved with other industry associations in other sectors in the past. Some good and some bad. Some are just old boys clubs and others work for their members. I want to know more about the NCCA before i make a decision on them, however so far they have been very hard to get any information about either direct or indirect.  What do they do with all their revenue? What are the directors paid etc..

Chem dry, S Master, Rainbow pay sofa retailers/makers to have their numbers on their care instructions. These chains/franchises get insurance work for their members and many other methods. Surley it would not be to hard for NCCA to come up with something along these lines for its memebrs and use the increased revenues to promote their members interests and raise their and the industrys profile.

 

[francis]

Interesting thread.

I should start by saying that I am not nor ever have been a member of the NCCA.

As far as I can see the association is run by a board of directors who quite rightly decide what direction the association takes.

From the posts above there seem to be members who feel the association is not doing what they think it should. - well get yourselves elected onto the board and change things if you feel that strongly.

For those who are not members - don't join if you don't like what they stand for.

Neil - you obviously have strong feelings that those who run the show are of a different age group to yourself and thus have different let alone the wrong idea of what should be done.

There is a simple anse=wer to that:- Set up the 'Neil Grainger Carpet Cleaners Association' and put all of these ideas of yours into practice. Then we will see what youth can do.

Liahona - you seem to imply that the association should be doing your advertising for you. Wrong thats down to you.
Others seem to imply that the association should be there to give them credibility. Wrong, if you can't get your own credibity don't expect somebody else to do it for you.

There seems to be a misconception by a number who have posted above about what a trade association actually is.

[carpetguy]

Thought this thread  might run, when started a few days ago and it's got a lot of people talking / expressing opinions, which is great, even with the odd insult, being traded, but brushed off........

[Neil Grainger]

Francis

Never said that age is a problem, I was just pointing out the these Organisations
are set up and run by older people.

I have issues with the way the NCCA are run which I have stated to them and on here. I want to be part of a group but feel that the NCCA is not want it says it is and misleads the general public by stating the all members are Professional and follow at set sytem of cleaning which they dont.

For me if they change these things which should not cost them any more money it would be worth joining.

Not ageist at all me just think they should be put down at 65 keeps them off the road too.

[Liahona]

I am not asking the N.C.C.A. to advertise for me or any cleaner.  My point is that other trade associations make the public aware of ....... that they should use a member of that trade.  If people need electrics and or plumbing done then they are aware of Corgi and other trades that a member of should be the tech to come into the house.  Its no good us knowing, we already know.  As Neil has said, there is a lot more that needs to be done.  Best, Dave.  If I was involved which I am sure they wouldnt let that happen, I would inform the carpet suppliers to advise their customers on the importance of having thier carpets maintained.  Also to maybe, just maybe try to sway them to use an N.C.C.A. member.  Is that such a bad idea??

[carpetguy]

NEIL

I was very fortunate to find an old man of 63 about 5 years ago, when everyone else told me, I was heading for a wheelchair, or would urgently need spinal surgery ...........which leaves many in a wheel chair !!!!!!

All of the many people I visited, were in their 30's and early 40's, including the surgeon and all of them are recognised, as highly competent, in their field.

Because of his greater experience and determination, the "old guy" had researched and experimented and eventually broke down walls, that no one before him had succeeded in doing.

Thanks to this " old guy " I had my flexibility restored and returned to normal activities.

Don't assume the brain ceases to be active as you get older...........I get fabulous stories about  people in their 80's and 90's who are very alert indeed and have our young girls ( carers ) in stiches at their antics.

The frustration I sense is not new..........you want something...........but what's on offer, isn't quite what you feel you want,

If this was a machine, what would you do ?

It ticks some of the boxes, but not all of them..................if you bought it..............could you improve it, with your experience, your ability to change settings, get more out of it ?