[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

 ncca good or just fat cats ? ive never been a fan of joining groups like this due too if you not in the click ! it just doent work. 



what does the custmer get out of people joining this group ? if you ruin there carpet does the group send out one of there people with the groups check book to pay for the damage ? then the group claims off yourself ?   if not i cant see the benafit ?

i rang the ncca five  weeks ago got to speack to a girl that realy hadnt a clue about anything i wanted to know

why if there so this and that have they got a  very thick girl anwsering the phone ? that doesnt know anything about cleaning ?

so she gave my a number of a guy thats runing a corse,  after  three calls and three txs to his moblie and no return call i give up what a shower of poo

im not haveing a go at the ncca but just  after this frist dealing with them i cant this the benafit , maybe the prochem corse would be better i mean they do make the chems we use surely these guys must know more ?

let have you thoughts on these groups please

susan xx

[carpetguy]

I'm not a member of the NCCA and joined the IICRC years ago, but never kept up my membership. I believe the NCCA are beginning to improve and they ran a couple of practical courses last year.

Depends what you are looking for, from the course.

There are a number of courses throughout the country, but, you have just become a T/M owner and I'd  imagine Prochem / Hydramaster / ETC , who sell T/M 's would be your best bet.

I'm sure a couple of the guys will suggest something.

[Ken Wainwright]

Oh susan xx, what a lot to take on board

Firstly, my apologies, on behalf of the Association and my fellow directors for a breakdown in communications.

For an insight about some of what we do, please read my posting under the topic of "Important Lesson"

The staff in our office are administrators who carry out the administrative duties of the Association as directed by us, the directors. For this, and other reasons, referal to a director is the best way of making contact about specific queries.

One of the objectives of The NCCA is set training standards for Members. This means that any applicant for membership will have to attend an approved "generic" course and pass a test. A manufacturers course rarely meets the generic requirement. Upon obtaining a pass, an applicant will then show proof of holding both Public and Treatment Liability Insurance. Once these requirements have been met, and the membership fee being paid, the applicant becomes a Full Member of The National Carpet Cleaners Association.

So where does the consumer come into this? By choosing an NCCA Member to clean their carpets, the consumer has the assurance that their chosen contractor has received formal training, passed an examination, has Public and Treatment Risk Insurance and will abide by a laid down code of practice. If something goes wrong on the job, the Member will have the back-up of the above mentioned Insurance. Peace of mind and security for both the customer and the member. If there are any disputes between the Member and the customer, The NCCA will act as arbitrators.

So that nobody is under any misapprehension, The NCCA will NEVER accept any financial or other liability for errors made by any individual member. I regard that as being a totally unreasonable expectation. I am not aware of any type of organisation offering that type of guarantee (insurers excepted).

As for Membership Benefits. I know that this is going beyond your enquiry above, but here's some of them.

Newslink magazine (11 months a year)
FREE legal Helpline
Website with your own listing (Google Carpet Cleaners)
Link to your own website (one off fee required)
Technical Help and Support
Referals from website and office
Discounts on NCCA organised events
Technical Roadshows
Workshops
Help with Press releases
Low cost YP and Thomsons advertising
the list goes on and on, but these are the main headline benefits.

The NCCA trainers are highly skilled and knowledgeable. A major advantage they have over many other organisations is that as well as being trainers, they are also very experienced carpet and upholstery cleaners. They are also very highly regarded throught all sectors of our industry. Paul Pearce, our Technical Director, is widely regarded as being one of the top trainers in the UK and, perhaps, beyond.

If you have any further queries you would like to discuss susan xx, then please drop me a line at: ken@ncca.co.uk and I'll do my best to answer your queries.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken Wainwright
Marketing & Media Director,

NCCA
In business for yourself
Not by yourself

[spickandspan]

Oh Susan just get some proper training and away you go why line other peoples pockets for nothing.
As you say just fat cats.

[carpetguy]

Changed your mind Susan ?

Ken's the man who did the hands on shows last year and with Derek Bolton, you have a couple of experienced and " mature "gents

Spick and Span

Why do you say that and Susans not new to this business, just raising her game and credibility

[spickandspan]

No problem with that,  sorry but i dont have much faith in NCCA, or other groups only thing they are interested in is ................

[Teddycare]

The NCCA is not a bad thing, especially if you are starting out in carpet cleaning for the first time, because let's face it, you know absolutely nothing, and as I found out in the early years that can be very expensive.
If you want steering in the right direction then any body That knows more than you is a good thing, after saying that I left the NCCA for a short while (probably about ten years) and was refused re-membership unless I retook their courses which of course I didn't really need, as I actually had 10 years more experience, I actually have been cleaning carpets and upholstery for twenty five years, probably longer than a lot of you, and I consider it an insult when I'm invited to re-join an organisation, to be told that I have to resit those exams, especially when the person who is in charge at this time I have never heard of.

So please form your own opinion whether it is worth joining this particular body of men, personally I do very nicely without them, yours sincerely Ted, an extremely professional carpet cleaner.

PS, I have also been a truck mount operator for the past 15 years so hopefully I know what I'm talking about. 

[Teddycare]

Nice one Glenn, at least I'm not the only one

[Steve Chapman]

I had been cleaning carpets for about 12 years and went on the NCCA course and still learnt a bag load of new things - And to have a legal dept and technical helpline at hand is really useful, something people only find out when they hit a problem or difficult situation.

Incidentally being a truckmount operator does not neccesarily make a proffesional carpet cleaner  -  up to date training does!

regards
steve

[Buster Ingram]

Well said Steve the key factor to any success is training.
I am not a member of the NCCA but like many others that does not give me an  opportunity to have
a pop at them.
There is good and bad in all associations but what the NCCA do have to offer is training and surpport.

I was told once that if I wanted to change things you have to be a part of it to do so :

[Ken Wainwright]

Ted

In some ways, I agree with you, but I hope you will agree with what I have to say about the sort of situation we could be  put into.

Many people, when they attend training courses, will learn quite a bit. But not all of what they have been taught will be retained. They will typically put into practice some of their new knowledge and teachings, but much of the rest will fade from memory due to lack of application and practice. In a hypothetical case, we could have a technician who attended our training course 30 years ago and has spent his time since with a rotary machine offering a crystalisation (shampoo) maintenance programme to his clients. He has rarely cleaned upholstery. After an initial couple of years as an NCCA Member, he decided not to re-new.  He now wants to reapply for membership. Do you think his skills are upto date? Would it be responsible of the Association to just let him in? I, and my fellow directors, think not. Hence our policy. IICRC have not too dissimilar arrangements for their Registrants.

OK, someone in your circumstances Ted, have a much broader experience base than the example I have given.  But we have to draw the line somewhere.  For this reason, we have an option, which you would need to talk through with our Training or Technical Directors, whereby you can take a written exam providing certain conditions have been met e.g. proof of a previous pass in an approved exam/test.

When you look at the bigger picture, I hope you will appreciate our reasons for setting these standards.

As for an assumption that because someone has a truckmount, so they must no what they are talking about, it is very dangerous for us to assume. The NCCA is frequently called upon, not only by Members, Trading Standards or the consumer, but by non-members too, to inspect damged carpets and upholstery. We seem to be attending more and more problems created by T/M operators. They are frequently established businesses with many years experience, but the amount of heat, sometimes combined with elevated psi, is creating pile burst and over wetting related problems. In recent years there has been a growth in the amount of lower grade carpet on the market. To compete at a lower price point, corners have been known to have been cut to meet a lower price. So I hope you will all agree that, although a Truck Mount is probably the most desireable tool for us Carpet Cleaners, it doesn't suddenly make us the font of all knowledge.

As for the NCCA, we have been taking steps in recent years to help our members, and frequently non-members, to keep their technical knowledge and skills upto date. There have been technical seminars for many years at the AGM, but we extended this three years ago when I started the Technical Roadshow series of events. This has now been extended even further by introducing a workshop element into the events. This started last autumn with the LM and VLM workshop, and continued earlier this month with an Upholstery Cleaning Workshop.

Like most organisations, the NCCA isn't perfect. But we're listening to constructive criticism and addressing the issues where possible.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[John Gregory]

As a complete newbie i joined the NCCA last monday paid me 135 quid ,40 quid for some stickers for the van . I got my first enquiry tonight off there website 3 bedroom mews in a really nice part of Manchester is it worth it?

PS if your watching Dave Ingram , i will ringing you to ask some advise how to price it      Thanks John NCCA 1735

[Robert Watson]

I`ll be renewing my membership.

[carpetguy]

Whether you join an association or not is entirely up to YOU..........but consider the advantages.......
we have been members of an association, for 6 years, at around £300 per year.

In that time we have been kept up to date with all Legal and Health and Safety issues / best advice for virtually all matters we're likely to come accross/loads of training material / all of the policies and guidelines, for staying Legal and Safe

Last week , we were saved at least £3000, possibly £5000 when we had expert representation at an Employment Tribunal.

The cost was fully covered, through our being members.

I don't know how extensive the NCCA coverage goes, but it will include some of the above and you never know when you might need help.

rob

[Geraint Jones]

Hi

I've been involved in the trade on & off for the last 20 years but only joined the NCCA begining of this year , best thing I ever did ,   The carpet cleaning industry is a relativley new trade compared to most trades , fitted carpets were only introduced in the 50's , so the trade is still young.
As most will agree the whole profile of the industry needs to be raised, this in turn will allow us to become more proffesional & in turn demand greater earnings .The NCCA are at the forefront of this  drive in my opinion , if you don't like them then fine  don't join but please still give them some respect for the work that they are doing for the whole industry in generall . Every proffesional trade needs a regulatory body  & standards , what are the other options?

Geraint

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

i not causeing trouble just trying to rise my came in the c.c world and looking at all things now

we have started uping the prices and with moveing forward with the gear and chems we use thanks to a good few on here ! 

im just trying to find out veiws on other things , for the last 20 years our buisness as been ticking along doing ok but now it time to move on to bigger and better things the only way to do this is buy try to take on board and much as possable
 

[carpetguy]

Susan

I don't imagine anyone thinks you're trying to cause trouble, by enquiring about training courses, it's just, that a great many people have, for the past thirty years, wished there was a way of improving the industry's  image and get rid of the cowboy type operators.

So this kind of discussion comes up regularly.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Remember though.....the NCCA isn't there to get you work, only you can do that.

Shaun

[craigp]

not a member myself, but the NCCA is a good thing and will undoubtly add creditibility to your company.

personnally im going to become IICRC certified firm instead (have to be IICRC quilified in all services you advertise)

and im too tight to do both


ps. does not matter if you been cleaning carpets 50 years, if you been doing it wrong you just been doing it wrong a long time, lol.

[spickandspan]

If you have been c.c for 50 years you cant be doing it wrong???

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

not a member myself, but the NCCA is a good thing and will undoubtly add creditibility to your company.

personnally im going to become IICRC certified firm instead (have to be IICRC quilified in all services you advertise)

and im too tight to do both


ps. does not matter if you been cleaning carpets 50 years, if you been doing it wrong you just been doing it wrong a long time, lol.

i dont think ive been doing it wrong mate due to only haveing 40 pounds a week paper bill and keeping three exels flat out most of the year 

just its time to up the came , so here anthor question which is better to do ncca, or IICRC  ?   are they both the same ? i may do the iicrc myself and send hubby on the ncca corses this way we will get the best of both worlds ? and we realy need to learn hoe to use wands again as we havnt use them in over 12 years due to useing scrbbas.

 this board as realy open my eyes over the last few months but as thrown alot of things in the air as well , i realy have been working for bugger all but no more 

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys,

I have a lot of respect for the guys who run the NCCA , but personally am in a very similar position to Ted and Glynn.

I am reluctant to go over old ground,  but still feel the NCCA should be much more forward thinking and use the oppurtunity the internet has created through these forums,  to bring the experienced CC's into the organisation.

Cheers

Doug

[craigp]

if you go IICRC, its this course NCCA will put you through anyway, but its your techs that will need to be doing it for you to advertise that fact.

you are not allowed to advertise if its just you the owner who is quilified and not the guys carrying out the work.

spick and span, imo you could have been doing it 50 years and still not know the basic princebles of C/Cing, if you not been taught.

[Neil Grainger]

I think the NCCA suffers like any organisation is where the old School run the show thus not being able to be upto date with the latest Technology for marketing and sales. Carpet cleaning skills are secound to none but running  information awearness for customers is not what the NCCA is about.

Look at the any association run by older people that are Finacially safe so dont need that extra workt that comes form doing all this advetising and marketing stuff to make the public awear of the NCCA, The sad thing is that probably only 5% of people who get their carpets cleaned have ever heard of the NCCA.

TV Producers working on daytime TV love information about these sorts of industries but have we seen the NCCA on these programmes. Never

What would the pull be for NCCA members if THIS MORNING did a feature on carpet and upholstery cleaning that was done by a leader of the NCCA, people would flock to it straight away.

[Ian Gourlay]

Doug,

I think with Kens roadshows and other inititives the NCCA has done a lot in the past 18 months. Ken has mentioned about Web Site etc.

[carpetguy]

Neil's response is the classic response from " younger people " who all through history, have thought they had all the answers, to the worlds' problems, only to find, how wrong they were, a few years later.

If you feel the organisation would benefit from your input.................YOU KNOW THE ANSWER !and you might get a hell of a shock to discover how much more the older guys know than you, not only about the practical aspects of cleaning, but the latest technology and marketing skills.

How do you think they got to be " the older guys, in the industry "when thousands of others have come and gone.

[Neil Grainger]

Carpet Guy

Dont get me wrong I am not questioning their Carpet Cleaning skills and fully understand that they have far more knowledge in Carpet Cleaning than me.

I am 34 and have spent 10 or so Years working for a bluechip organisation so consider myself experienced in somethings. Why are their no old people working in IT because the young are dynamic & forward thinking, Sorry to say it but most Older people are not, set in their ways. I bet most of the Older Guys are set in their ways with business not growing but making lots of money because they have been in the business for a long time and have a settled customer base. Does it matter to them that things are they way they are, of course not. Their are still making money from the prestige of running such organisations.

CC's would pay more money in membership if they marketed to the public witch they dont, Nobody know's who they are and being a trade organisation surley people should no who they are. Most Important thinng. If the Public cant find them why is it worth being a member.

Trademark Windows are a classic of this, were a small business and got fed up with all the sharks so set their own Trademark for Windows and Conservatories, Most people in the south of England no who they are. Not sure about the north.

Why cant the NCCA do this. Market to the People not us we would love to be part of it but until they do, its not worth it.

[spickandspan]

Well said that man.

Most cutomers who i have done work for have not even heard of NCCA so whats the point?

[Phillip Mold]

I have been a cc for less than a year, and now I am convinced I would have been hopeless without the training that I received. (OK other people/organisations could have provided that too)

In my first six months have had four jobs from customers who got my name from the NCCA website, total value over 500 pounds, and also received invaluable assistance from the directors.

I would not deam of not renewing!

[Ken Wainwright]

I love this debate

As I have said before, the NCCA isn't perfect, but then, only the good Lord is

Firstly, our Association is named the National Carpet Cleaners Association. It's an association FOR carpet cleaners, NOT Mr and Mrs Jones at number 22. Our moto is Service With Integrity.  OK, we do generate through our various media efforts enquiries from the public, but the Association is NOT a marketing company with a raison d'etre of generating lots of work. This is left to other organisations. Fast Track/Joe Polish,  and Brian James springs to mind.

This position is supported by most other Trade Associations. When did you see an association for upholstery manufacturers advertise to the public. How many of these associations can you name. Ditto electricians, plumbers, carpenters et al.  And I'm talking about proper specialist trade associations, not "Badge Marketing Companies" like the Guild of Master this or that.

Our media department has a regular monthly output of articles which is sent to many womens and homes magazines. We have regular contact with the daily press who call upon our expertise to give technical and  commercial advice. Directors have appeared on Breakfast TV and radio  and programme researchers frequently call upon our expertise.

Due to the size of our industry and more importantly our membership, I cannot forsee a day when  the NCCA will be able to afford an effective advertising campaign through any of the media except for our own website. Being a member of virtually any trade association is a marketing tool for the individual member to use to their advantage. YOU are the carpet cleaner.  YOU are the businessman. YOU are the salesman. So go out and sell YOUR company and YOUR services and the benefits  that YOUR  membership can bring to YOUR prospects and YOUR customers.

As for young blood, we are not ageist. Any person of any age or background is welcome to become involved with THEIR Association. It's the way the Association has always been. The way I became involved is typical of most directors. I offered help at NCCA events. Erecting stands and breakdown afterwards. Assisting in Branch Meetings, demonstrating techniques/equipment at Branch Meetings, until one day I organised a Branch Meeting which was way beyond what the format was. This was the forerunner to the Technical Roadshows. By showing my enthusiasm, dedication and organisational skills, the directors felt that I could bring something to the Association, so I was invited to join the Board. So, if you feel that the NCCA can be improved, get up off your bum and do something about it. The present Board has!

To be fair, although the system described above has been shown to work well, it can be improved. For this reason, I have put some proposals to the Board which will, perhaps, encourage more new blood to become involved with their Association. For the right people, this could lead to Directorship. There is quite a lot of work to be done yet on this project, so no announcements are imminent. As always, you'll need to be patient.

From my perspective, it would appear that most of the  problems that are/were percieved to exist have are being answered. It is my view that the Association has made enourmous strides in recent years to actively promote the benefits of Membership to the industry at large. The increase in membership supports this. We are not for everyone and not matter what we do or don't do, this will never change. But, IMO, the appeal of the NCCA is at the best it's ever been, and it's getting better all the time.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[spickandspan]

I rest my case.

[rambly]

By choice I am a member of the NCCA and would say I have benefited from membership.

Just be happy there is no compulsion (so far) in this industry, to be a member of an organisation such as Corgi which seems to have obtained Government approval to try and achieve almost total domination of all aspects heating and plumbing.

[Mark Stanley]

I would endorse membership of the N.C.C.A. - without hesitation.

Regards
Mark

[Terry_Burrows]

must say we are giving this some thought to I met Ken at the NEC most helpful and willing to answer anything,I do admire these people who have all the years of carpet cleaning to share,

simply priceless

respect

[Phillip Mold]

Terry, I am sure you, like most on here have been cc ing far longer than I but I can tell you Kens advice and help has been invaluable not only to myself since starting. Surely it makes sense to be professional and that means having a professional body to support and dare I say regulate us?

[stevegunn]

It suits some and not others but personally I think there should be a refresher course every few years or so as things change so quickly.

[Bob Robertson]

Steve

Only if they were held across the UK and not down south all the time ££££££££

Tihson

[carpetguy]

I've never met Ken Wainright, or Derek Bolton, but have been on a few courses with Paul Pearce and all of these guys, some of you would regard ,as " old / stale / set in their ways/ behind the times "

Well, I'm older than any of them, and am continually seeking new products and methods, even 'though
I'm gradually backing out of the business.

Don't mistake the rushing around, of younger folk as more productive, than the calm and confident way a more mature person might adopt.

In my past life, as a driving instructor, it was proven to me and others, that you can drive in a safe, controlled and legal way and get to your destination ( about 25 miles away ) before others who were less cautious, less controlled and flaunted the law.

We ( the youngsters ) were soundly beaten by " the old, boring geezers " who were proving their expertise and supremacy, by using their experience and ability.

[Derek]

Neil

I take issue with your remark about 'old'boys' at the NCCA...at your age (34 I believe) you are just about the same age as some of the Directors...what does that say then?

I was one of the old fogies you refer to and I did leave the Board of Directors last year making way for an energetic 34 year old...we are still waiting 

On a more serious note...I have said this before many times...the NCCA may not suit everyone but I have found that it has definitely brought me business by belonging in adDition I have met people whom I would never have met.

As dear (getting old) Uncle Kenneth says..."I may work alone but I am not alone"

[ianharper]

Guys

I am not a member but from the sound lots of people think that it a marketing organization for carpet cleaners. if i understand what these organisations are about its about professionalism.

we all benefit from the NCCA how would all our business look if their where a load of guys running around the country with extraction machines not know what they where doing? its the training that produces professional people and then in turn a profession. its in the the name we are professional carpet cleaners.

Ken what is needed is a charter or mission statement so that everyone knows what the goals is for the NCCA. then there will be no doubt. and that's what i think you get in these chats.

I know as a member that BICSc is about training they make loads of money from this and with it have taken the mission all around the world. raising standards and the industry. remember how people looked down on cleaners years ago. know many (not all) have respect for what we do.

The message will not across to the customer if you just print a logo on all your marketing. you have to explain what it represents. the time will come when you don't have to do this, like everyone know what city and guilds stands for.

If everyone promoted the NCCA then prospects would know the difference between someone that has training and someone that does not. and with many people setting up cleaning business it is more important than ever to promote professional service.

I have written a leaflet as a example of how you can promote professional service. its just an idea and I have not use it, check it out at my blog

http://cleanersnetwork.wordpress.com/2007/02/20/problem-with-cheap-cleaners-in-your-area/

Respect

Ian Harper

ps. ken does it not bother you that from many off the comment above that many cleaners with loads of experience are not members. I for one am very surprised at how many what i would call professionals are not members. with all that experience and knowledge?

[carpetguy]

Ian

I'm sure you are as aware as I am, that someone who is " self taught "and had no formal training, will find it difficult to go along to what they perceive as " beginner's level " courses, in case they make a fool of themselves.

I've suggested before, that such a situation could easily be overcome, by adopting a self study program, for the early to intermediate levels, allowing absolutely anyone to overcome any shyness / lack of confidence / or, whatever.

I've been there, myself, but attended many, none the less and was the old geezer on the IICRC course and the only one to pass, first time.

[Neil Grainger]

Derek

No offence was ment by my comments. I was just pointing out the these sorts of Organisations are run by older people who have been successful in their Business and want to share with others and have the time to do it.

Most young people dont do it because they dont have time because they are building business up, have young family and are still married

A point I would like to make is that why dont the NCCA have a grading system as regards membership, because if they are truly after the proffesionals within the industry to join, and want to make Carpet Cleaning a truly respected industry they would have different levels of membership.

Junior Membership New to 2 Years
Full Membership 2-5Years
Senior Member 5 Years onwards.

What upsets me is that you can have no experience, never cleaned, pass an exam and be a member and have all that comes along with it.   

To me this is misleading to a customer because you are saying they are certified and proffesional. But what are they really certified in, maybe good at exams but no good at cleaning. We have all come accross people with all the qualifications in the world that cant change a plug and the NCCA are no different in this because of the way they are structured.

If a customer ever asks me about the NCCA and why I am not a member I explain this to them and they are amazed that it is so easy to become certified.

In my eyes you are misleading the public, but you say this Organisation is not for the public, If that was the case none of these guys would have NCCA plastered over everything the market.

Would love to join as I see lots of advantages but the negative outway the positive within the current system of joining the club.

[carpetguy]

I think your comment about grading membership have merit Neil and your thinking is closer than you might think to mine and probably many others.

[ianharper]

Guys

My advise would be

1. free membership. the money lost from this would be made up from course fee's with membership levels starting with student, then full member and so on. BICSC make loads of money this way and I don't know why they still charge annual fee's?
2. a nation recognised certification. like city & guilds. i sat mine as a open learning by post. and sat hands on and written exams at national recognised centres. it would not take much to put a extra module on to the cleaning science course.
3. A volunteer commitment for all members to promote the values to the public though their marketing, local chapters doing charity work in the local areas to gain publicity for the NCCA. min hours each year.

Respect

Ian Harper



 

[carpetguy]

I think Ian's FREE membership ( resricted ) could work and his description of what's going on elsewhere, is exactly what I've been suggesting for some time.

Regulation, WILL come in and it's better to have an industry standard ( graduated through 4 or  5 levels before regulation.

Although I hate being regulated, there are advantages, particularly, the elimination of cowboy operators, through heavily promoting the INSURANCE / HEALTH / GREEN aspects.

[Derek]

If the NCCA offered free membership then I would leave...immediately

I agree with the comments about members being suitably qualified but you are then imposing even more restrictions that many on the forums (and this thread) object to...

It OK thinking you are professional but who is the judge of that....

Neil...I wasn't offended hence my tongue in cheek reply 

[Neil Grainger]

Derek

If you dont have a tyred system than its a sham as regards a professional body. It needs to be more forward thinking witch was actualy my point to begin with.

Old Heads no new idea's. Young Heads new idea's but may make mistakes.

[Terry_Burrows]

I think you make a valid point Neil :

[prodry]

Does the NCCA produce any form of annual report as it not a charity or a limited company. Does anyone have a copy of this? I am interested in joining although would like to know how the membership and other fees are spent. I did ask the NCCA direct some time ago and was brushed off.

[Liahona]

Prodry, I was brushed off as well.  I feel it is the public that needs to be informed about this or any organization.  To say it is for us as cleaners.  Big deal!!! It needs to kick Joe Public to be aware of our services not ourselves.  I commented on another thread about this so wont again on here but if the N.C.C.A. is looking at this thread and the other one then feel free to comment.  Especially on the other thread cos its the reasons on there that gets my goat.  Best, Dave.

[stevegunn]

Neil has made some valid points ref different levels of membership maybe the directors should take them on board.

[Derek]

Old heads Neil?....don't underestimate older people (you will be one  some day soon)... that remark also smacks of ageism.

You quite obviously don't know me very well at all 'young man'

[prodry]

I stand corrected NCCA is a limited company with no share capital. So no divedends are paid to any shareholders. I shall buy a copy of the companies house report tommorrow to see if I can answer my own questions, unless any of the members, directors have a copy of there AGM  they are willing to share.

CARPET CLEANERS ASSOCIATION LIMITED(THE)
62C LONDON ROAD
OADBY
LEICESTERSHIRE LE2 5DH
Company No. 01724576

[carpetguy]

Why are some of you so hostile about an association which is the only one likely to help drive the industry towards credibility.
I think Neil could be persuaded to attend an open seminar/ roadshow type meeting as many others might.
I only read excellent reports about D B and K W and although I'm approaching 62 I clearly remember my arrogance  / confidence / conceit, call it what you will, when I was in my late teens and early twenties, but it was only, when a little older, I appreciated the reality of .........older people have worn virually all the T shirts you'll come accross, some with different names, but the situations have repeated for centuries and will continue.......
What I suggest and the only reason I nevr joined was geographical, is the NCCA arrange a few roadshows and that you all get along to them, meet the people and talk, listen, sonsider, act.

ps
Just noticed Andy Foster's post below

[prodry]

Carpetguy I dont think anyone is out to get them, however we have an industry with very little credibility, no customer education, and 1000's of splash and dash uninsured cowboys.

Surely the way to solve this is with a large national association that useses it resouces for that purpose. By resources I mean money and its members.

Not a days training and a sticker!

I have been involved with other industry associations in other sectors in the past. Some good and some bad. Some are just old boys clubs and others work for their members. I want to know more about the NCCA before i make a decision on them, however so far they have been very hard to get any information about either direct or indirect.  What do they do with all their revenue? What are the directors paid etc..

Chem dry, S Master, Rainbow pay sofa retailers/makers to have their numbers on their care instructions. These chains/franchises get insurance work for their members and many other methods. Surley it would not be to hard for NCCA to come up with something along these lines for its memebrs and use the increased revenues to promote their members interests and raise their and the industrys profile.

 

[francis]

Interesting thread.

I should start by saying that I am not nor ever have been a member of the NCCA.

As far as I can see the association is run by a board of directors who quite rightly decide what direction the association takes.

From the posts above there seem to be members who feel the association is not doing what they think it should. - well get yourselves elected onto the board and change things if you feel that strongly.

For those who are not members - don't join if you don't like what they stand for.

Neil - you obviously have strong feelings that those who run the show are of a different age group to yourself and thus have different let alone the wrong idea of what should be done.

There is a simple anse=wer to that:- Set up the 'Neil Grainger Carpet Cleaners Association' and put all of these ideas of yours into practice. Then we will see what youth can do.

Liahona - you seem to imply that the association should be doing your advertising for you. Wrong thats down to you.
Others seem to imply that the association should be there to give them credibility. Wrong, if you can't get your own credibity don't expect somebody else to do it for you.

There seems to be a misconception by a number who have posted above about what a trade association actually is.

[carpetguy]

Thought this thread  might run, when started a few days ago and it's got a lot of people talking / expressing opinions, which is great, even with the odd insult, being traded, but brushed off........

[Neil Grainger]

Francis

Never said that age is a problem, I was just pointing out the these Organisations
are set up and run by older people.

I have issues with the way the NCCA are run which I have stated to them and on here. I want to be part of a group but feel that the NCCA is not want it says it is and misleads the general public by stating the all members are Professional and follow at set sytem of cleaning which they dont.

For me if they change these things which should not cost them any more money it would be worth joining.

Not ageist at all me just think they should be put down at 65 keeps them off the road too.

[Liahona]

I am not asking the N.C.C.A. to advertise for me or any cleaner.  My point is that other trade associations make the public aware of ....... that they should use a member of that trade.  If people need electrics and or plumbing done then they are aware of Corgi and other trades that a member of should be the tech to come into the house.  Its no good us knowing, we already know.  As Neil has said, there is a lot more that needs to be done.  Best, Dave.  If I was involved which I am sure they wouldnt let that happen, I would inform the carpet suppliers to advise their customers on the importance of having thier carpets maintained.  Also to maybe, just maybe try to sway them to use an N.C.C.A. member.  Is that such a bad idea??

[carpetguy]

NEIL

I was very fortunate to find an old man of 63 about 5 years ago, when everyone else told me, I was heading for a wheelchair, or would urgently need spinal surgery ...........which leaves many in a wheel chair !!!!!!

All of the many people I visited, were in their 30's and early 40's, including the surgeon and all of them are recognised, as highly competent, in their field.

Because of his greater experience and determination, the "old guy" had researched and experimented and eventually broke down walls, that no one before him had succeeded in doing.

Thanks to this " old guy " I had my flexibility restored and returned to normal activities.

Don't assume the brain ceases to be active as you get older...........I get fabulous stories about  people in their 80's and 90's who are very alert indeed and have our young girls ( carers ) in stiches at their antics.

The frustration I sense is not new..........you want something...........but what's on offer, isn't quite what you feel you want,

If this was a machine, what would you do ?

It ticks some of the boxes, but not all of them..................if you bought it..............could you improve it, with your experience, your ability to change settings, get more out of it ?

[Derek]

Thank you Francis...your post was a breath of fresh air and common sense..

Those who continue to knock the NCCA can, as you rightly say, do something about it ....

1.   They can join

2.   They can give up some of their precious time to help run it and participate on a voluntary basis.

3.   They can put up with the constant criticism and personal abuse from those who have nothing better to do

Those people who set up the CCA in 1968 were just about the same age as Neil when they started out...they got off their backsides and did something.

I have seen much younger people come and go over the years ...no staying power

I have to admit that the concept of how to run an Association looks easy from outside but if you just stop for a minute (something us old fogies are able to do) you will hopefully see the true logistics of the undertaking... but the again perhaps not.

I am afraid I will have to say to you yet again what I have said on numerous occasions when this issue has arisen...you don't have to join its your choice...no one is forcing you.

Neil's 'old' remark did hit a raw nerve with me....my days are full, my brain is extremely active and I am involved in many other activities both inside and outside of the industry...perhaps a hell of a lot more than the much younger Neil.

I and, I am sure I can speak for other 'oldies', can work just as hard (if not harder) certainly smarter and probably do a better job than a lot of younger technicians.

OK...I have got that lot off my chest I will now go out and do a good days work

[carpetguy]

Morning Old man

Just kidding I suspect I'm the oldest on here a the moment and I know exactly what you mean. I t's a bit like...........Parents boards at school
                     Football coaching , etc etc

Everyone wants it but few will give up their own time, however, it would be nice to think some good will come of this kind of " discussion "

old Rob

[ianharper]

Guys

One very important aspect of business is when a customer complains, or chooses not to use you., they give you a view on your business that if taken positively can benefit your business.

I make it part of my business to ask twice a month to all my maid service clients what they think and use this information to provide a better service.

Recommendation is the life blood of any business. it free and will say much more about you than anything you say yourself.

Respect

Ian Harper

[carpetguy]

Ian

I know what you are saying and we use such systems in our Domicilery Care business................but.....some of these QA, checks can easily become a formality and a chore,

I changed ours, to become " an informal visit " with brief notes taken during a chat with clients, resulting in clients relaxing and feeling happy about the visit, rather than worrying about, form filling.

An analogy, might be.................but it's demanding of time and costs money...........is low cost " to prospect " roadshow, where trade rep's could attend and offer demo's.

Something like this - I think- was being done recently, by Ken Wainwright and was reported on here. So maybe the NCCA is already in the 21st century, in spite of what some might think

[Neil Grainger]

Derek

I Truley ment no offence I was just making a point that most GROUPS are run by older people with more time than younger people. Look at the Football Association run by People in their 70's-80's located at local counites that make all the desicions for all football. So stayed in their ways that they cant move forward.

What is the average age of the Senior NCCA Team?

I was brought up by my Grandparents so have nothing but respect for older people but feel that the young have just as much to offer but Groups just dont allow it to happen. Its a bit like the Golf Club.

I would love to get involved with the NCCA but they would not like some of the idea's that I would like to put forward as stated above and would probably get thrown out.

My First Question would be Different Levels of membership, Its just wrong that I can come on a course have a good memory and be able to pass an exam and be classed as a competent cleaner who is proffessional and get all that comes along with that. They are lieing to the public by using this as a Statement of Professionalism.  Please answer this question for me. This would be easy to do and not add anything to the workload.

If I am wrong please correct me please.

[ianharper]

Carpetguy

one is done by phone
one by letter.

and if there are problems customers go on what we call "red alert" which means site visit every week for four cleans.

I used to have four staff checking as much as possible but had more problems with this than the system we use now. staff don't like being look at over their shoulders so much. we do still if we feel there is a problem do spot checks and the staff known and it keeps them on their toes.

The phone calls are done by one lady that does not have contact with the staff so there are no familiarity issues. and she has a PC at home that is sync though Act to mine, and all i have to do is scroll though the history tab to check each weeks comments. its great when a customer calls me direct and says that she has had a problem for ages. i can quote back all the contact that we have had and the chances she had had to comment.

we found that in the early days that they just needed an excuse to cancel, and the real reason was that that could not afford it any more. strange how people don't like admitting this?

Prospect and customer feed back is a goldmine for any business. I know a carpet cleaner that calls to asks why he did not get the job. takes nerve this. but he knows why and can use this info.

Respect

Ian Harper

[Ian Gourlay]

Neil,

If you want to get involved in something usually all you have to do is volunteer.

Yes you do get organizations where Fred has been president for 25 years etc

But remember if you push Fred are you prepared to do it for a period of years.

It can take over your life. And hit your profits and wallet.

Or you just do not do anything and the organization is in worse position than when Fred was in charge.

[Neil Grainger]

Ian

Going to do just that. Have just written aletter for the NCCA asking if I can get involved. Going to try and put my money where my mouth is.

Cheers

Neil

[Derek]

Neil

If that is the case then my comments have not fell upon stony ground...well done.

I would say that currently the average age of the Directors of the NCCA is between thirty and forty years ...when I left the Board the average dropped

As a Director of the NCCA for many years I have been privy to most of what has transpired and there have been many ideas that have been discussed...many have been implimented whilst others have fallen by the wayside usually for a good reason.

The NCCA have in the last year been putting in place various things to take the Association forward ...this will mean some major changes ..so watch the press. As I am no longer a Director I am not aware of any timescale of events so I am unable to discuss them further.

A few years ago there were two elderly gentlemen on the NCCA Board who were both in their eighties...their minds were as sharp as razors and if I am as alert at that age I will be more than happy...I am working on it.

Steady on Rob...I take issue with you too....I reckon that there are a good few older carpet cleaners posting on the forums than yourself....so you don't get your medal just yet. 

[carpetguy]

Damn !!!!!!

My only claim to fame, shot down

[Ken Wainwright]

As requested, please find the NCCA Mission Statement as below.

NCCA Mission Statement

The mission of the NCCA is to be the independent voice of the carpet and upholstery cleaning industry in the United Kingdom.

To set and promote high standards and ethics.

To promote excellence through continuous education and training.


To act as a central conduit in the exchange of information between all segments of the carpet and upholstery cleaning industry in order to enhance product quality, value and service to the customer.

To be the authorative source of information and the guardian of industry standards.


Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Neil Grainger]

Hi Ken

Thanks for that.

Could please give me your view on the suggestion of membership grading.

cheers

Neil

[Kinver_Clean]

I am 65 in May and have just filled out my pension claim form! I now am taking life a little easier- I try to work 4 days a week, but I find I am putting as much in 4 days as 5--

If you want to change something dont sit on the doorstep and moan! If everyone who wants the Ncca to do more for its members joined then it would be easier to afford the cash for more publicity etc  etc.

Trevor  Mem no 763

[Ken Wainwright]

You're welcome Neil

We have discussed graded technicians at Board Level. These discussions are confidential

Watch this space.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Buster Ingram]

There you go Neil you have it from the horses mouth or is it an eye.  Wink Wink

[Neil Grainger]

Dave

Its my major bug bear about the NCCA and as soon as it comes in I will join.

No problem with Egg on my face jst wanted to put my point accross from the way I see it, If I am misguided then shoot me down I have not problem with that.

Are you still building your Truckmounts for people to buy, I was going to buy John Flynns sometime ago. The machines look great.

Cheers

Neil

[the red carpet]

Craig p, has got one for sale on e-bay

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

with fourms like this and others its so easy these days to lisen and see what people are saying and what they want out of something like the NCCA its ok them comeing on here saying this and that but how do we know if its getting took on borad ?

ok some will say join and find out  ect ect ect well thats ok,  ive seen loads of people do this , put alot of time in helping  things like the NCCA  only to find out three years later theres no change  so i can see why people are holding back like myself

i know how hard it is putting a show on (road show) as me and 12 of my friends do it every year for 5000 people all weekend !

but why cant the NCCA do say four road shows one year and aks people to come and join in a mini agm ? it would nt cost a lot at all they could get the hall sponsored by say " clean it up " they would be the only traders there and have the cleaners ( us) pay £5  useing pay pal for the cost of food befour the event is due

this way getting to know the  numbers on how many would turn up this way they could lisen and talk back too non members,  takeing  notes from non members  instead of giveing the sales bit at shows like i have seen them do

would make people feel a little better about joining im sure

[Derek]

The Roadshows are not hard sell but informative...they are sponsored by NCCA Associate members who are given an opportunity to do a presentation ..this presentation is on a topic selected by the NCCA to ensure that it isn't a hard sell event.

The Roadshows do go around the Country ...so that's that one out of the way..

Neil...when the new NCCA grading systeme comes in there will obviously have to be exclusions....anyone with their surname beginning with a 'G'

[Neil Grainger]

Derek

Can I ask Why, what have I done?

Cheers

Neil

[Ian Gourlay]

And there was I hoping to get a Knighthood

Would be interested if grading system was based on years in NCCA or proven Years in CC plus exams etc.

[carpetguy]

I think the only fair grading system, would be;
                                                knowledge
                                                ability
                                                experience
possibly, with an associate membership for non working, bit involved in the business, personnel.

As I said many times..............the basic  / entry level could be, by completion of a pretty basic questionaire, avoiding resistance from older participants, who might feer embarassment.

Further gradings, could still be done through distance learning with practical elements taken, in groups, by independent supervisor.


                                                                 
                                                                                               

[fletch]

Neil,
I have been a carpet cleaner for 9 months & also a NCCA member.
I did'nt have a clue before I started the NCCA course, but it gave me an extremely professional template to work from and joined together with my own high personal standards, I went forth and  competently cleaned domestic and commercial carpets & upholstery.

The NCCA set the professional standard for the industry, it's up to the individual to combine their own level of personal responsibility with knowledge =Professional.
                                    Regards,
                                      Fletch.

[Ian Gourlay]

In answer tomy own Question.

If Non NCCA amembers are interested in what is happening in the future,What happened at Confrence apart from AGM The information is on www.ncca.co.uk

[Phillip Mold]

Just come home from doing a(nother) job referred to me from NCCA website for 190.00.  Thats paid my sub for the year!

[Phillip Mold]

Another one - local publican looked up carpet cleaner on the web, fround NCCA, called me, job now booked, another 210 pounds! 

[*paul_moss]

Well Done Phil  : : : :

[Mark Stanley]

Best job (value wise) I have had via the NCCA website was £1000 in March - Domestic.

Regards
Mark

[*paul_moss]

Mark
What did that consist of ?

[Mark Stanley]

7 rugs
8 seat & stool Leather suite
8 draylon chairs
bedroom / bathroom carpet

In a huge multi barn conversion.

Electric gates the lot.

Regards
Mark

[*paul_moss]

Mark you got a good price .
How much did you charge for the gates ?

[Mark Stanley]

Not too good a price Paul the rugs were large and dirty the leather was very dirty and there was many an awkward stain to test the skills of your average cc (me).

Oh and 10 mins to get in the gates every morning.

Regards
Mark

[*paul_moss]

 

[Phillip Mold]

Another one - local publican looked up carpet cleaner on the web, fround NCCA, called me, job now booked, another 210 pounds! 

Just got better, did this job yesterday, cleaned a couple of barstools as well, so charged 230, they were so happy they gave me a tenner tip and I have a referral from it already!

[stuart_clark]

I remember speaking to a company Directer a few years ago regarding NCCA members he is the managing directer for a large low moisture system machine and his comments were that he had met more cowboys within the NCCA than out of it, I know this is going to get some peoples backs up but I think some folk join the NCCA to use the logo and dont ever put there teachings into practice