carpetguy

Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2007, 10:02:25 pm »
Very, very tempted to say I told you so................but, that would be a bit sad and quite unnecessary as I expect some people have lost a fair bit of money.

I agree with much of what Ian Harper and Steve Gunn usually say, even if this sounds like a contrdiction.

One of the reasons I was unable to implement much of  the marketing, as promoted by Joe Polish and anyone attempting to market products that kill dust mites, is, as Ian suggests, the psychlogical impact.

If you understand the way our brain works, you will understand, that it's extremely difficult to eliminate a negative thought, once it becomes established.

You should never, ever, introduce a negative thought, in your marketing, or discussions. If you do, you are creating unnecessary conflict in your prospect's head.

This is what the marketing of "dust mite killer" type products, was doing and with others smartly marketing " the healthy aspect " of their flooring, carpet sales and cleaning, was suffering, instead of benefitting, from these products....................if you want to sell such products, it might be better to detach them from your cleaning business and offer a completely separate  business, aimed at peoples health and wellbeing.






Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2007, 04:41:14 am »
Paul,

My apologies for having only recently joined the forum and then having had the audacity to make a post which you appear to take some exception to judging by your accusation of me obviously using a pseudonym.

As for clarity, just look back at previous posts on the subject matter, its as clear as daylight exactly what Matt is setting out to do. 




 Ian Gourlay  replied

On checking back on Matts post I must agree with Mr Richards good of you to spare time drom your Villa.

When I first saw the post I thought the same but as we have many of the original supporters club back with is and making a great contribution to the Forum I thought it might be of interest to all.
 





dave401uk

  • Posts: 434
Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2007, 06:58:36 am »
I have a van full of the stuff..............if any one is interested ::) ::) :-X

Dave
Its never a pass of the wand,just a master stroke.

ianharper

Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2007, 07:12:07 am »
carpet guys well said.

so how do we turn this attitude around, so that we all can benefit from it?

do you think that most cleaners limit themselves by not using long copy in their marketing. the less you say promotes tha the services we provide are basic and don't have any skill or science behind it?

we all know how much science is behind what we do, but many fail to turn the benefits of our equipment and products into one that the prospect can see as benefits.

for example most Tm users if you look at their site fast drying is not part of their USP. they don't in any way use the benefits of that extra investment in a way that shows the prospect why they should choose them over a porty user.

For example i tested dry cleaning last year and got great response and its now part of my message.

most cleaners don't match their message to their chosen market.

given this subject it shows how hard it can be matching the message when you know your market. the flip side to this is as you say when you have a attitude like that you have with the asthma UK position when once its in the minds of our prospects it will be hard to change. so whats stopping us changing it around?

respect

ian harper


heritagecleaning

  • Posts: 713
Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2007, 10:03:58 am »
I am slightly confused by the original 'Keith Richards' post in that he asks us not to insult his intelligence. If you read the post he goes on to demonstrate that there isn't too much intelligence there to insult.

spindle

  • Posts: 680
Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2007, 10:23:03 am »
 i will start by apologising for my ignorance........

how exactly will these product "HELP" asthma??

as a former asthma sufferer(cured now).......i would like like to know what is so special about these products...........


dust(and other things) is breathed in by sufferer and starts to annoy the lungs making the patient short of breath............so what is wrong with cleaning/dusting/hoovering your house on a daily basis.. a very good hoover will pick up a lot of the dust.....

dust mites live off human tissue(found in beds/sofa/carpets) and the "dirt/poop" they leave behind is what aggrievates the lungs/breathing...

i think that it is impossible to eradicate these pests..........

i think that these "products" have been overhyped........and the cost cannot be justified.

just my opinion...............but as always someone always knows more than you do!!!


life is one big learning experience!!!!!!!

ianharper

Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2007, 10:34:39 am »
spiindle

first it not the answer for all asthma sufferers but those that suffer from air allergen.

if you can remove the cause by lowing the levels then it can prevent the attacks.

as an example daily use of the air spray or when a suffers feels a attack coming on then use of the air spray will reduce the level of air allergen and "hopefully" prevent the attack.

as you know it all about the levels of the allergen that causes the attack. this product only deals with air allergens. so it not a answer to all. but like most illnesses can be prevented if action is taken to do so.

if people did not rip their carpets up in the first place then the Uk level of asthma would not be where they are today.

i must point out that in no do my opinions reflect that of solutions. this is how i see the problem.

respect

ian harper

spindle

  • Posts: 680
Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2007, 11:07:42 am »
thanks ian..........

would you say that they work in the same way as say.......

when you have a building site and there is lots of dust...... they spray water to weigh down the"allergens/dust" in the air........

i am not having a go at anybody.........but do you not think that its expensive water??? ;)



life is one big learning experience!!!!!!!

ianharper

Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2007, 11:26:22 am »
your not just keeping the dust down but killing the allergen by breaking it down.

you cant live in a house with all doors and windows shut. allergen like pollen will blow in and i know people that suffer and the trigger is cats dander but still does not stop them keeping them.

of say you go away to a friend home or hotel that let dogs and cats in the air spray will deal with this

how about when again your trigger might be dust mite well the bed is number one on your list to defend. do they take mattress covers with them when they go away? mattress spray take no time to dry and will kill all dust mites?

Don't get me wrong i not trying to sell this its just a way to point out that the problem is out there and we have the answer from just cleaning items like bed carpets etc to full treatments like this one.

hygiene has come a long way. just think how bad thing would be today without the pressure that is put on the food industry. prevention again. only in this case you don't have hard floor or drug producers and the power they bring against you.

btw carpet are a renewable source not like trees. you can grow sheep much faster  :)

spindle

  • Posts: 680
Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2007, 11:37:54 am »
lol

thanks ian


dont get me started on food hygiene laws..........i am an expert....18yrs in the catering game. the changes that i have seen in the industry in the last 5 yrs alone is enough.

but i do get your point.......i think that some people will go for it and some wont..

bit like a steak......or a 100% beefburger ;D ;D ;D

wasnt trying to annoy anyone but expressing an uninformed opinion
life is one big learning experience!!!!!!!

*paul_moss

  • Posts: 2961
Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2007, 07:23:41 pm »
At the end of the day.
My view is

Good product
Does work
Not very many customers want it
No money to be made in using it
Not a good  investment
UK Owner not very knowledged in marketing
Very, very, very long term investment
Paul Moss  MBICSc
www.mosscleaning.co.uk
REMOVED FOR POSTING OFFENSIVE MATERIAL

mark_roberts

  • Posts: 1899
Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2007, 11:05:34 pm »
IMO the mistake made was too buy into a new product almost like a franchise with lots of promises being made.  It was also being sold to 'non-members' although a bit more expensive.

I think the market for this sort of cleaning is very very small at least those willing to pay extra for it.  And then how long does it last.  Dust is created all day every day.

A leader in the cleaning industry once told me very few houses have dust mites anyway!!

Mark

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2007, 05:08:49 am »
According to Richard and Judy there are millions but the main concern is a clean carpet with all the stains blu tac  Last Years dinner etc removed.

ianharper

Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2007, 06:42:52 am »
guys

with respect.

i can understand cleaners wanting to make extra money from a product but, if you can raise the level of you clean then would you not want to do so?

as i have said how would you feel as a customer if you had a cleaner coming into your home each week to clean it and they did a clean that to the eye clean but failed to use any products that would kill th ebugs on your kitchen surfaces or in you bathroom.

cleaning has two levels to it the firsts is the look and the second is the hygiene.

if you are using detergents then ok but if you are micrsplitting then well it not harder to switch.

I understand that there is a cost involved but this is pennies.

apart from the above your clean is unique in that you can provide a level to a much higher standard than those that don't use this product.

again i would point out i am not pushing this product but just pointing out some points regarding standards of clean.

one thing that we have a responsibility to is the eco subject again its something that cant be seen but we can choose to take it on or not. many people expect things to be provided within a service from value to being responsible.

its called ethic. and as a member of BICSC its part of what we as members should be doing each day.

respect to you all

ian harper

Mike1946

  • Posts: 24
Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2007, 06:45:59 am »
Ian I would be careful of saying that A/S prevents or stops asthma as it doesnt. It removes allergens which in turn could cause asthma but A/S in itself does not prevent asthma.
I am a network member and while I have not made a fortune from it, it is certainly another string to the bow when trying to get foot in door.
However I think this is just another pop at Solutions who could not be blamed for marketing errors made by some of the network.
It was never going to sell itself and needed to be worked at and still does. The ones who lost out were the ones who gave up on it and were not prepared to do the necessary work to turn it into a winner.

As for it being overtaken by M Power this is just not the case. M Power does not remove allergens and only has a limited life in the carpet for removing / killing mites.
Mike Dickerson

A D M Carpet Care

NCCA

Mike1946

  • Posts: 24
Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2007, 06:50:35 am »
Dave401UK if you want to give me your van full of it I will gladly take it off your hands ::) ::)
Mike Dickerson

A D M Carpet Care

NCCA

stevegunn

Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2007, 08:26:47 am »
Ian I would be careful of saying that A/S prevents or stops asthma as it doesnt. It removes allergens which in turn could cause asthma but A/S in itself does not prevent asthma.
I am a network member and while I have not made a fortune from it, it is certainly another string to the bow when trying to get foot in door.
However I think this is just another pop at Solutions who could not be blamed for marketing errors made by some of the network.
It was never going to sell itself and needed to be worked at and still does. The ones who lost out were the ones who gave up on it and were not prepared to do the necessary work to turn it into a winner.

As for it being overtaken by M Power this is just not the case. M Power does not remove allergens and only has a limited life in the carpet for removing / killing mites.

Sorry Mike but the marketing errors were made by Solutions promises of editorials that did not happen,adverts placed in obscure magazines,no marketing until the product had been out for a year then too much money paid for national advertising which brought no return.

So its turned into a winner has it I don't think so.The only winners out of this were solution and jm marketing with the sale of his workwear/leaflets.

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2007, 08:44:03 am »
I did not join so can only comment from the outside and my memory of events

First someone suggested that a Group of Carpet Cleaners should work together to promote the industry. (Do not know if this post was a plant to set master plan rolling)


It was suggested that we could get

 Editorials

National Advertising

National Lead System

National Contracts

Next Alerg Stop was born and this Forum was dominated with it for several months.

Probably what went wrong was lack of experience and although having a positive mental attitude  the above was not as easy to achieve as it sounded. And who ever was involved would have to make a commitment involving money to acheive this.

I do recall some members got Editorials in their local papers I presume they were not paid advertising

Personally although I did not like the attempt to dominate the rest of us  I admired your enthusiasim and the Going For it Attitude

John Kelly

  • Posts: 4461
Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2007, 08:59:13 am »
Just a word on how these products work. They change the "footprint" of the proteins in the allergen preventing the recepters in the human body recognising them and reacting.

ianharper

Re: AllergStop Network - Solution Uk
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2007, 11:24:23 am »
control the environment and you can some control over the illness.

don't get me wrong my view is no different to someone that is told that if they stop smoking they will not get ill.

take away the cause and you remove the problem.

I see it as preventing attacks by controlling the environment. no different to asthma UK say rip up carpets

what do drugs do they change the body. if you stop it getting to that point where you get the reaction you have prevented an attack.


again these are my personal views regarding asthma attack prevention.

respect