[The Carpet Cleaning Pro]

I think this industry is in the mist of a massive decline if not doomed and think this is due to the way the internet has been used. Bookings just seem to be harder and harder to come by for some businesses. Seems to me the winners here are thew advertising companies taking the money from us that we work hard for getting from the customer for a job well done.

[Simon Gerrard]

Disagree with that. Like everyone sales are harder to come by these days but that is hardly surprising given the economic doom and gloom that has gripped the entire world. But to say our industry is doomed is going too far. We are as busy this year and we have ever been but we do have to work harder to to achieve that but it's do-able.

Simon

[Simon Gerrard]

And what advertising companies? The Internet is by a country mile the cheapest and most effective form of advertising, without it we really would be sunk.

Simon

[Mike Halliday]

when the going gets tough..... the tough get going

its a great time for the enthusiastic small business,   hard times are good for getting rid of the chaff and allowing us real men to reap the spoils

I love to feel the crunch of a failed business under my boot as i climb the height of success, i feed on the tears of their failed dreams as i bask in the sunshine of  victory.










I think that's enough metaphors for a Friday might

[Paul Moss]

Is metaphors a new kind of beer Mike and you have had a few 

[Mike Halliday]

ooohhhh just thought of another one........

as the light of the soul of another failure dims like the moon dims before dawn,

I blaze a path of brilliant illuminations that will act as a beacon of hope to the men who truly seek the path of riches  

hic..hic

[Simon Gerrard]

Someone get Mike's  coat and call him a  taxi

[derek west]

I think this industry is in the mist of a massive decline if not doomed and think this is due to the way the internet has been used. Bookings just seem to be harder and harder to come by for some businesses. Seems to me the winners here are thew advertising companies taking the money from us that we work hard for getting from the customer for a job well done.

and yet you swear by groupon, i really don't get it mick. 

[Simon Gerrard]

and yet you swear by groupon, i really don't get it mick

I was thinking that. No need for someone who can make a success of groupon can ever think the industry is in decline.

[Jim_77]

Mike, you're a taxi!

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Lol

I like it Jim

Shaun

PS I think Mike has been reading 'hitting the wall' or something like that,

PPS One from me

Thou whom tarry to syllan shall will end up with nary

[The Carpet Cleaning Pro]

I think this industry is in the mist of a massive decline if not doomed and think this is due to the way the internet has been used. Bookings just seem to be harder and harder to come by for some businesses. Seems to me the winners here are thew advertising companies taking the money from us that we work hard for getting from the customer for a job well done.

and yet you swear by groupon, i really don't get it mick. 

I was not talking about me personally. It was a general observation from reading many posts on here and looking at all the negative quotes from people on here. I think one of the main problems is that people haver lost the confidence in what we do due to what others do incorrectly.

[Fran84]

I like to see it as people who are struggling/can't run there on ship properly are just looking for someone to blame.

Our amount of jobs are down this year. However, the job average is going up so is compensating.

[Craigp]

Mick, you got half price on your site with no price? Huh, half price of what, to what?

why have a price list with no price.

****1 Bedroom House / Flat / Bungalow - All carpets cleaned HALF PRICE
2 Bedroom House / Flat / Bungalow - All carpets cleaned HALF PRICE
3 Bedroom House / Flat / Bungalow - All carpets cleaned HALF PRICE
4 Bedroom House / Flat / Bungalow - All carpets cleaned HALF PRICE
Carpet Stain Protector with StainShield™ - HALF PRICE
*****

[Simon Gerrard]

I was not talking about me personally. It was a general observation from reading many posts on here and looking at all the negative quotes from people on here. I think one of the main problems is that people have lost the confidence in what we do due to what others do incorrectly.

Mick,
Other cleaners, the so called 'Cowboys,' have been giving the rest of us a bad reputation for all 36 years I've been in the business. The public have always been wary of carpet cleaners because for every good one there seems many more bad ones, but there is nothing new in that and it certainly doesn't mean the industry is in some kind of terminal decline because of it. The 'upshot' for the professional outfits is that when a customer finds you they tend to hold on to you - forever.
I think you are completely misreading either your own, or other people's situations and I certainly don't detect any kind of decline.

Simon

[Kinver_Clean]

The same thing happens in almost any trade.

Builders have had their own programs on telly for years and still people get ripped off.

[wynne jones]

The industry is certainly in decline, it's being attacked from all angles.

Hardfloors/laminates, more competition, hire machines and QVC Bissels that do just as good a job as a truckmount, the new British climate, the economy, people have no shame when it comes to being dirty beggars....... the list goes on.

You can home in on these things as an excuse as to why you are not doing so well, yet the real reason is YOU. Because there's a guy down the road doing very well thank you and he is trading in exactly the same circumstances as you.

There are still tens of thousands of carpets waiting to be cleaned and you don't even have to be the number 1 in your area to make a very good living, but you do have to make it happen.

And when I say 'You' I mean anyone who is blaming anything but themselves for their predicament.  

[Simon Gerrard]

The industry is certainly in decline, it's being attacked from all angles.

Hardfloors/laminates, more competition, hire machines and QVC Bissels that do just as good a job as a truckmount, the new British climate, the economy, people have no shame when it comes to being dirty beggars....... the list goes on.

You can home in on these things as an excuse as to why you are not doing so well, yet the real reason is YOU. Because there's a guy down the road doing very well thank you and he is trading in exactly the same circumstances as you.

There are still tens of thousands of carpets waiting to be cleaned and you don't even have to be the number 1 in your area to make a very good living, but you do have to make it happen.

And when I say 'You' I mean anyone who is blaming anything but themselves for their predicament.  

Top notch post, Wynne, agree with every word.

Simon

[*Hector*]

 

[Mike_Roper]

Theres a saying 'if you want something doing ask a busy man '. Quite likely because a busy person is organised , motivated so manage their time more effectively. I also think looking a different way that if your not busy you seem to be discouraged which has a very negative effect on your self motivation, you get lethargic , cant be bothered , lack enthusiasm. Just think of a day when you havnt got much booked in , nothing in the morning perhaps, you find you waste time in the morning which in turn has that cant be bothered effect on the rest of the day.
Its a vicious circle you have to sort , its more of a mental thing. You have to keep enthusiastic , your heart must be in it. Keep the go get it mentality , go looking for work and when you get it do it to the very highest standard. Remember people buy 'you' as much as the service you offer, are you a people person ? If they dont 'like' you they wont get you back !
Mike

[Simon Gerrard]

Theres a saying 'if you want something doing ask a busy man '. Quite likely because a busy person is organised , motivated so manage their time more effectively. I also think looking a different way that if your not busy you seem to be discouraged which has a very negative effect on your self motivation, you get lethargic , cant be bothered , lack enthusiasm. Just think of a day when you havnt got much booked in , nothing in the morning perhaps, you find you waste time in the morning which in turn has that cant be bothered effect on the rest of the day.
Its a vicious circle you have to sort , its more of a mental thing. You have to keep enthusiastic , your heart must be in it. Keep the go get it mentality , go looking for work and when you get it do it to the very highest standard. Remember people buy 'you' as much as the service you offer, are you a people person ? If they dont 'like' you they wont get you back !
Mike

Yip, agree wholeheartedly with that too.
I think to be successful in business you have to be willing to change and adapt to different situations. Complacency is also a terrible thing, thinking that you've done everything right so never think to look at how you could change things for the better.

Simon

[Richard Basey-Fisher]

I believe that most service based industrys are at a turning point times are tough out there face it 50 % of the population have less disposable income so its likely everyone is tightrning their belts . 

although i have only being going 6 years i nearly feel like a vete as so many seem to start up and disapear as quick as they appear . in these times i feel that you reap what you sow i am still doing ok because of my recom and repeats and every new customer is a bonus .  customer service is king in these times .

[*Hector*]

Yup that is why the move into ducks this spring..  

and now.....  




hypnotherapy is forefront, as the duckling market has taken a dive and is very seasonal... So no more ducks until next spring, but  





look into my eyes    

[wynne jones]

3-2-1 You're a DUCK! 

[Dave_Lee]

There will always be work for those that that aren't lazy, don't cut corners, pay attention to detail, go about every job as though it was their own and generally excel in their trade.
If you are simply one of the average carpet cleaners, that form the majority in our business, you are placing yourself in an area of mass competition. Why then should the public choose you instead of someone else. Of course you may think that by making impresive claims in your advertising should bring in the calls and if it's good enough, it may. However if the job is not up to expectations, you not only won't be going back there, but you will get a bad name. A bad name is passed around 5 times faster than a good name to 5 times the number of people.
Impress every customer with an excellent standard of work, one which exceeds their expectation and you will never be really struggling for business.
Dave.

[garybristow]

spot on dave
do a great job and show some personality,if the customer likes you and trusts you she or he will always ring again
i get a lot of work from a site that ladies in the area recommend trades they have used,when i go to give a price that is your moment to come across knowledgable and project yourself and your business in the correct manner.
when you get the job you impress,then you are there carpet cleaner for the forseeable.
i know its corny but word of mouth costs nothing so no advertising costs,you have to earn a reputation
image and quality is everything,that applies to any business
gary

[Jim_77]

Word of mouth is the slowest way of growing any business though, unfortunately.

Also you need to follow up your first dazzling impression with some sort of regular ongoing contact.  How many of us have had customers say they were really pleased last time but since it's been a couple of years they forgot our name and what our business was called.  Some of these only ever find us again by chance or by ringing through the numbers in the book.

[John Kelly]

There will always be work for those that that aren't lazy, don't cut corners, pay attention to detail, go about every job as though it was their own and generally excel in their trade.

Spot on Dave, spoke to a ceramic tiler the other week who was moaning he only had 2 small jobs booked in for the following week. Me thinking the ceramic tiling industry is on its knees.
Yesterday dealing with a flooded house the women told me her husband is a tiler and he is booked up for 6 months. They moved back from Australia and he went into Jamies Tiles asking for work, nothing doing, he offered to work a week for free and do any of the staffs houses free. Booked 6 months in advance tells its own story.

[John Kelly]

Think I've told this tale before but worth doing again. A carpet cleaner doing market research outside a supermarket asked the question "have you ever had your carpets cleaned" of the ones who had over 80% couldn't name the company who'd done it.
Just as Jims said.

[wynne jones]

I read a book a while back called 'the referal engine'. I was really irritated with it as it kept waffling on about amazing your customer and do things to make you stand out blah blah blah.

Anyway about half way through it gets to the actual referal 'techniques' to get loads of new customers begging you to work for them ..... you guest it, the 'technique' is  just amaze your customers. 

No, actually it is good and I have saved a lot on advertising, but there's no point trying to get referrals through techniques if you provide just an OK service. 

[Mike Halliday]

customers are fickle, you can do an amazing service but they still will be tempted away by a special offer, a recommendation from a friend or just that you don't answer your phone when they called with an emergency.... so called some one else.

then you've at best have  lost them for a year.... at worse lost them for good

this is the fundamental flaw with the thought that once you been in business for a number of years you don't need to advertise as you have a huge database of customer, but the truth is most/some of that database are now probably some one else customers

[Simon Gerrard]

this is the fundamental flaw with the thought that once you been in business for a number of years you don't need to advertise as you have a huge database of customer, but the truth is most/some of that database are now probably some one else customers

Only partially true, Mike.
In an average week our sales are made up of around 70% existing customers and so our advertising costs are tiny because we work hard on customer retention and try as best we can to put our customers in a position where they can't get what we do anywhere else.

Simon

[Mike Halliday]

but if you kept only 10% of your yearly customers after 10yrs you would never need another customer ( i think)

which says the other  side of the coin is you also lose 90% of your customers

[Shaun_Ashmore]

To some point I agree with Simon but unless you have contact with customers you don't know when they will contact you and also you have to have some advertising to carry on getting customers to fill the void also recommends work 2 fold from a customers point view they can use you then pass your details on but another person can use a competitor and pass their details on then you are classed as recommended cleaners competing again for the same job, impressive cleaning is as standard to customers it's the little things that they remember you by ie personality or freebie spray bottle etc

Shaun

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

Carpet cleaning has always been a tough business to get established in as a stand alone, many combine with other types of cleaning.

There are  always willing new entrants attracted by the relatively low start up costs and perceived easy entrance. Howeer as we know there is an alwful lot more to running a CC business than just buying a machine and doing a 2 day course.

This tends to force many to compete on price alone and makes the bottom of the market much more crowded than the top.

Almost all those doing well charge relatively high prices, I would say you need to take a least Ł1000 a week to make any sort of living, taking into account the high costs of being a start up, advertising etc.

Is the market shrinking, well people have been saying this for as long as I have been in the industry and will be saying it for the next 30 years too.

Cheers

Doug

[*Hector*]

I would say you need to take a least Ł1000 a week to make any sort of living,

That might be what YOU need to take a week, but not everyone has the same overheads. It is very subjective.

Chemicals are cheap as chips now.

The major running costs in this business are IMHO fuel both for vehicle and TM
and Advertising.
The more advertising the more business and hence the more fuel.

So these 3 things are irrevocably linked.
And should be the same with anyone in this business.


#What is different and purely subjective is the overhead aspect. You may live in a 10 bedroom mansion that is mortgaged up to the hilt, and run a fleet of high price cars and women, so naturally your overheads are going to be high.

I on the other hand live in a barn, with no mortgage, very low rent and no real outgoings, so my overheads are negligible.

You may need to earn Ł1000 a week to make any sort of a living.

I on the other hand only need to earn that in 3 months and still have a good standard of living.

So as said at the begining everything is subjective.

[Simon Gerrard]

I noctice Mick uses the tactic of, 'You tell us how much you want to pay.' While that might seem an attractive way of doing things from a competitive angle, I think it could be a major 'put off' for many who dislike the aspect of 'haggling' as a way of buying a service. And whilst the hagglers may respond well to it, the majority may simply see it as a sales ploy where you ring up, name a price and then have heavy sales tactics used to get you to agree a higher price.
I think you've got to set out your stall as you want it based on prices you are happy with to provide a top quality job. Being competitive is not about price, it is about quality and it is the quality end of the market where the money, or should I say, profit isWe've got zillions of customers who have used a cheap and cheerfu cleaner, weren't happy with the result and realise that if you want a quality job done, you've got to pay for it and that is where the quality cleaners quite literally, 'clean up.'

Simon

[peter maybury]

customer loyalty is an important factor as it does seem harder to pick up new customers. I am just very happy that I am now established. Went to one of my regulars yesterday, the last time I cleaned her carpets was 21 years ago. She has not used anybody else since the last time I did the carpets and would not contemplating using somebody else. Carpet cleaning is just not a priority for some people. I do have sa few regulars that I see every couple of months but the norm is about every 5 years with the majority.
Markets change and you have to change with it and notice the changes. When I first started I had several pubs that we cleaned once a month and were doing several pubs per week including nightclubs. I still clean most of the pubs in my area but the pubs that were once a month are now four times a year, the pubs we were doing twice a year are now every 2 years. We saw the decline in that market and have moved on.
I am just glad I am not starting from scratch as you do need such a large customer base to make a successful business and feel that with the additional competition and current climate, that that would not be as easy to achieve as it was when I started. Even with the enthusiasum and motivation I had at the time, a lot of sacrifices had to be made to get the business established. Perserverance is important but so is the sense to know when you are flogging a dead horse. Unless you make money that you can reinvest into yourself and your business then you will not move forward, the more you make the faster it happens. I was taking Ł1000 per week from quite an early point and with the cost of advertising training, good equipment, Ł1000 a week I do not see that as a large amount of turnover in this day and age. I would have thought most people in start ups will not be fortunate enough not to have a morgage or rent to pay.

Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com

[wynne jones]

Starting  a business today has never been easier and running a profitable business has never been harder.

[Simon Gerrard]

Starting  a business today has never been easier and running a profitable business has never been harder.

Very true indeed.

Simon

[Terry Villain]

Starting a carpet cleaning business has always been easy. Its the ones who have other things attached to it that stay in business ie. other cleaning, carpet supply, repairs, fitting, cleaning product sales, office cleaning, window cleaning etc.

Just getting a decent living out of carpet cleaning is quite hard in my view as it's on the whole unskilled work and anyone can get started & involved.

[Simon Gerrard]

Starting a carpet cleaning business has always been easy. Its the ones who have other things attached to it that stay in business ie. other cleaning, carpet supply, repairs, fitting, cleaning product sales, office cleaning, window cleaning etc.

Just getting a decent living out of carpet cleaning is quite hard in my view as it's on the whole unskilled work and anyone can get started & involved.

I don't agree with that. All of the most successful people I know of in the business are specialist carpet cleaners who have dedicated themselves to becoming successful at it.

Simon

[Billy Russell]

Starting a carpet cleaning business has always been easy. Its the ones who have other things attached to it that stay in business ie. other cleaning, carpet supply, repairs, fitting, cleaning product sales, office cleaning, window cleaning etc.

Just getting a decent living out of carpet cleaning is quite hard in my view as it's on the whole unskilled work and anyone can get started & involved.

I don't agree with that. All of the most successful people I know of in the business are specialist carpet cleaners who have dedicated themselves to becoming successful at it.

Simon

Don't like saying it, but i agree with Simon

 

[Terry Villain]

Starting a carpet cleaning business has always been easy. Its the ones who have other things attached to it that stay in business ie. other cleaning, carpet supply, repairs, fitting, cleaning product sales, office cleaning, window cleaning etc.

Just getting a decent living out of carpet cleaning is quite hard in my view as it's on the whole unskilled work and anyone can get started & involved.

I don't agree with that. All of the most successful people I know of in the business are specialist carpet cleaners who have dedicated themselves to becoming successful at it.

Simon

But you probably only associate yourself with those types of 'specialist' carpet cleaner's so wouldn't know the wider picture. Saying that, noone really knows, maybe a poll on this would be good?
 

[Paul Moss]

I find that new people on the forum that come in with these type of questions are normaly the ones that are struggling but just make their point a bit more ballsy so we think they have been going a while and have some real experience. Once their real name comes to light, they are either a troll, sudiname or newby. Which are you Terry?

[Simon Gerrard]

But you probably only associate yourself with those types of 'specialist' carpet cleaner's so wouldn't know the wider picture. Saying that, noone really knows, maybe a poll on this would be good?
 
Wider picture? Rubbish, mate. The people that feel they have to spread themselves far and wide in order to make their business work are the ones that really don't understand what this business is all about.

Simon

[peter maybury]

The people that fail are the people that do not have the intelligence to see the investment training dedication and skill required to do a top job, that will have customers singing your praises.
To say that it is an unskilled job shows a total ignorance of the chemistry, and other skills that are needed to run a business.
Many people have no skill and knowledge and crap machines but do not see themselves as doing anything different to those that have invested heavily in equipment and training. As I have said I have worked with some real cowboys over the years but they always see themselves as doing a good job.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com

[Terry Villain]

I find that new people on the forum that come in with these type of questions are normaly the ones that are struggling but just make their point a bit more ballsy so we think they have been going a while and have some real experience. Once their real name comes to light, they are either a troll, sudiname or newby. Which are you Terry?

New members on this forum sure get a warm welcome 

[Terry Villain]

But you probably only associate yourself with those types of 'specialist' carpet cleaner's so wouldn't know the wider picture. Saying that, noone really knows, maybe a poll on this would be good?
 
Wider picture? Rubbish, mate. The people that feel they have to spread themselves far and wide in order to make their business work are the ones that really don't understand what this business is all about.

Simon

People will diversify for many reasons. Clearly you're happy with what you are achieving but others may not be, so they need to diversify to increase turnover. We did that about 30 odd years ago and haven't looked back. If we had stayed with one service then I and my family wouldn't have had the lifestyle we've been lucky to have. But each to their own.

[Simon Gerrard]

Why not earn yourself some added credibility by filling out your profile, people may take you more seriously that way.

[*Hector*]

Erm Simon........... 

His profile is filled out as much as yours is.... 

[*Hector*]

And probably more than mine is

 

[Simon Gerrard]

Erm, my email address is ther Ealing with websites.

[*Hector*]

yer but
no but
yer but
no but

Terry aint got a web site thingy has he???


 

[*Hector*]

Bet you were happy when I was gone Simon

 

[Simon Gerrard]

Loved it, Hector, seems we've got a new 'Villain' of the piece.

[*Hector*]

Oh dear....
Think I might go again

 

[Simon Gerrard]

The door is there, use it

[*Hector*]

 

[Terry Villain]

Hi Simon, you seem to be a sprightly fellow with your quick flippant remarks but hey somehow I like that!

You can answer me this one though;

Who are The Truck Mounters Carpet Cleaning Association as Ive never heard of them? Is it a national association or something you've set up? Just curious as Ive just had a quick look on your website.

Do you personally feel that those carpet cleaner's using portables and those that haven't been in the business too long should be 'looked down upon' due to lack of equipment or knowledge, or do you try and support them when you can?

[Simon Gerrard]

Terry,

The TMCCA is something me and Glyn set up when you took over the Truck Mounters Forum, but unlike Derek West and TACCA, we haven't taken it anywhere, so credit to Derek for that.

As for the second part of your question, most of the companies running TM's started out with portables and knowing nothing, including me so I am more than happy to given advice and guidance to those starting out, as I owe much of my success to the people who helped me along the way, so it is nice to give something back.


Simon

[Paul Moss]

Here we go :-) didnt take him long.  :

[Terry Villain]

Terry,

The TMCCA is something me and Glyn set up when you took over the Truck Mounters Forum, but unlike Derek West and TACCA, we haven't taken it anywhere, so credit to Derek for that.

As for the second part of your question, most of the companies running TM's started out with portables and knowing nothing, including me so I am more than happy to given advice and guidance to those starting out, as I owe much of my success to the people who helped me along the way, so it is nice to give something back.


Simon

Ah, ok. I'm confused with all these 'pop up' associations. So TACCA is a new one (just checked out their web page). Is TACCA run by one man then? How does that work?

Were members of NCCA but ditched them years ago.

Can anyone join your forum? Can I join?

Terry

[Simon Gerrard]

As the name suggests, you have to have truck mount, sorry

[Mike Halliday]

What I think causes the decline of our industry is the readily available information that the Internet has provided, I think there is more negativity than positivity which gives the illusion that 'the industry in in decline' because a lot of the successful people out there won't participate in these forum or have forums themselves that wouldn't let the majority of us join

But the less successful or the ones struggling are here searching for the answer to why they are not 'succesful' ..... so we get a loaded perception of the industry.

You often see post called 'my phone is dead' or 'how can get more work'  but never the positive post about how successful you are.... I understand it's hard to say these things without looking like you are bragging or being a big head but perhaps if more people posted positive information we would see a different picture of our industry.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

John Flynn used to say 'jfd' and he was right if you do nothing guess what you get?

Shaun

[Simon Gerrard]

There is no decline in this industry, just a lot of people being negative about not working hard enough at becoming successful and being jealous of those that have, which is why the successful ones keep it to themselves.

Simon

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

You often see post called 'my phone is dead' or 'how can get more work'  but never the positive post about how successful you are.... I understand it's hard to say these things without looking like you are bragging or being a big head but perhaps if more people posted positive information we would see a different picture of our industry.

"You're ripping people off at those rates"
"That's more than Solicitors charge per hour"
"I can't get those prices around here"
"It's not rocket science"
"You're only a cleaner"
"I'm happy with Ł40 for a mornings work, better than sitting at home"

Is it any wonder Mike, that you don't see more positive posts or more info shared by successful people on here, when you get replies like the above.

[wynne jones]

The industry attracts a lot of people who don't want much. They really should have a job but they can't find one.

And that just enough mentality will not sustain a business just like having just enough money till the end of the month and then a big bill comes in.

This is why you need something to constantly aim for to keep you pushing when you don't have to.

[Ferenc G.]

Without motivation and lots of hard work you wont succeed. Its usually down to the individual not the industry.

[Simon Gerrard]

And when they can't be successful they say the industry is in decline.

Simon

[Ferenc G.]

The main problem is people don't realize how much work and money involved in marketing and sales. Its not like the cleaning part of the game, you don't get paid for it immediately but you have to keep doing it to get results, and sometimes its hard to stay motivated.

[Craigp]

I would say you need to take a least Ł1000 a week to make any sort of living,

That might be what YOU need to take a week, but not everyone has the same overheads. It is very subjective.

Chemicals are cheap as chips now.

The major running costs in this business are IMHO fuel both for vehicle and TM
and Advertising.

The more advertising the more business and hence the more fuel.

So these 3 things are irrevocably linked.
And should be the same with anyone in this business.

#What is different and purely subjective is the overhead aspect. You may live in a 10 bedroom mansion that is mortgaged up to the hilt, and run a fleet of high price cars and women, so naturally your overheads are going to be high.
I on the other hand live in a barn, with no mortgage, very low rent and no real outgoings, so my overheads are negligible.

You may need to earn Ł1000 a week to make any sort of a living.

I on the other hand only need to earn that in 3 months and still have a good standard of living.

So as said at the begining everything is subjective.

I don't buy this arguement, whislt we all have different 'housing' costs we do all live in the same country, we pay the same for fuel, advertising, tax, food ect.

[*Hector*]

but advertising is down to choice.
fuel is dependant on how far you have to go to work, and how much work you do.
Food is very subjective but yes we all have to eat.
tax is again dependant upon how much you earn or turnover.
keep the turnover low and you don't have to mess about with VAT etc

Housing is varied.

But people come on here and say "how can you only charge Łxx when you have overheads?"

I was only pointing out that there are different levels of overheads.

I for example do not need nearly as much to live on as some other people, and I am sure that I need more than others.

[wynne jones]

You have a point Hector.

At the other end of the scale someone might say they are 'struggling' but actually the business is bringing in 5 times more than some. But they have a huge mortgage, a high maintenance mrs and high maintenance for the old one and the kids. 

[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

What I think causes the decline of our industry is the readily available information that the Internet has provided, I think there is more negativity than positivity which gives the illusion that 'the industry in in decline' because a lot of the successful people out there won't participate in these forum or have forums themselves that wouldn't let the majority of us join

But the less successful or the ones struggling are here searching for the answer to why they are not 'succesful' ..... so we get a loaded perception of the industry.

You often see post called 'my phone is dead' or 'how can get more work'  but never the positive post about how successful you are.... I understand it's hard to say these things without looking like you are bragging or being a big head but perhaps if more people posted positive information we would see a different picture of our industry.

So why don't we start a thread where we can share a few success stories without contributors feeling as if they are bragging but can at least go to show what there are nice/big/good/profitable/enjoyable jobs out there to counter-balance all the bad news that you normally find on this forum.

I for one would love to hear more about Simon's boat jobs and other cc's successful jobs which they enjoy telling to their families/friends in a one-to-one setting.

Rog

[Jim_77]

Hector, the other way of looking at it is that with very low overheads you will have a very large profit margin on a decent sized turnover, allowing you to drive round in a ferrari and take your luxury yacht to Monaco to see the grand prix

"You're ripping people off at those rates"
"That's more than Solicitors charge per hour"
"I can't get those prices around here"
"It's not rocket science"
"You're only a cleaner"
"I'm happy with Ł40 for a mornings work, better than sitting at home"

Is it any wonder Mike, that you don't see more positive posts or more info shared by successful people on here, when you get replies like the above.

This forum really needs a "LIKE" button for posts like this

[Ferenc G.]

What I think causes the decline of our industry is the readily available information that the Internet has provided, I think there is more negativity than positivity which gives the illusion that 'the industry in in decline' because a lot of the successful people out there won't participate in these forum or have forums themselves that wouldn't let the majority of us join

But the less successful or the ones struggling are here searching for the answer to why they are not 'succesful' ..... so we get a loaded perception of the industry.

You often see post called 'my phone is dead' or 'how can get more work'  but never the positive post about how successful you are.... I understand it's hard to say these things without looking like you are bragging or being a big head but perhaps if more people posted positive information we would see a different picture of our industry.

So why don't we start a thread where we can share a few success stories without contributors feeling as if they are bragging but can at least go to show what there are nice/big/good/profitable/enjoyable jobs out there to counter-balance all the bad news that you normally find on this forum.

I for one would love to hear more about Simon's boat jobs and other cc's successful jobs which they enjoy telling to their families/friends in a one-to-one setting.

Rog

"Like" :-)

[*Hector*]

Hector, the other way of looking at it is that with very low overheads you will have a very large profit margin on a decent sized turnover, allowing you to drive round in a ferrari and take your luxury yacht to Monaco to see the grand prix Smiley

This would be true if I were still full time and hard at it Jim, but I am winding down now, especially after last year, so only got a Peugeot 106 and a canoe.
 

[Simon Gerrard]

[/quote]

So why don't we start a thread where we can share a few success stories without contributors feeling as if they are bragging but can at least go to show what there are nice/big/good/profitable/enjoyable jobs out there to counter-balance all the bad news that you normally find on this forum.

I for one would love to hear more about Simon's boat jobs and other cc's successful jobs which they enjoy telling to their families/friends in a one-to-one setting.

Rog
[/quote]

Rog,
The problem is the moment you suggest that your in some way successful you get your head blown of for showing off, bragging, belittling people, being arrogant, looking down on people etc etc etc, so you tend to keep very quiet about it. The truth is the guy's at the top were once at the bottom and what should be of real interest to peope, how they got to the top, or even more importantly, how they stay at the top, which is even more difficult, but instead you're made to feel guilty and I know lots of the top guy's simply won't expose themselves to that sort of abuse and so keep what the know to themselves, which is a shame.

Simon

[Mike Halliday]

Simons right, unfortunately it's a trait of the British to keep quite about thier success or it's seen as big-headedness, in the USA it's seems to be ok to talk about success they don't seem to be so embarrassed about doing well

[Ian Gourlay]

Perhaps the problem with The Industry is these Forums. I think they encourage people to start in the business.

I do not think they read the negative  just the positive and think I will have some of that.

They see a plan , ie Website, facebook leaflets etc to get them off to a flying start. When it does not work first time and wife starts  to complain , savings diminish credit, card starts rising they wonder why and posts such as phone is dead start to appear.

What they should do is get out , on the street and be proactive.

When I started information was hard to come, you may have read about Servicemaster or Chem dry  in the Franchise Section of Daily Express  and thought that sounds good.

To me it was convincing as I hired Servicemaster , and some company from London to clean the large stores that I managed. And you know what they did not turn up with truckmounts  but bog standard portables  to clean 10, 20 25, 35, thousand square feet of carpet that was heavily trodden on grit dust tar, etc for the past six months
 
Sent for details from Ashcombe, Extracta or got Fortunes to be be made  from Ashbys.

Or maybe ended up buying a crap machine from Ashleys in Huddersfield got mixed up with Ashbys

Information on marketing was not readily available  just told put out 1k a week of leaflets part time, 4k , full time and spend a day a week  door knocking, offer money back guarantee  Get Carpet shops to recommend, hold carpet cleaning parties  keep records etc who needs Joe Polish
Dead easy as spent 5 days a week knocking to  sell windows etc. that is apart from crap machine.
How can the Industry be in Decline the recession of the 90s was worst than this record house repossessions high interest rates etc etc.

Today in my opinion there are more good quality supply companies who offer interesting products. They all appear to have success probably helped by these Forums

I have said elsewhere Mike Boxall should get the OBE for founding this Forum  Services to small Businiess  and the Cleaning Industry and also the original Founders of Cleantalk should get BEM , cant have OBE because they sold out.

The reason people keep quiet is we are a small country and they do no not want people nicking their work.




 

[Simon Gerrard]

   Re: Industry on the decline
« Reply #81 on: Today at 09:44:24 am »   
Perhaps the problem with The Industry is these Forums. I think they encourage people to start in the business.

I do not think they read the negative  just the positive and think I will have some of that.

They see a plan , ie Website, facebook leaflets etc to get them off to a flying start. When it does not work first time and wife starts complaing , savings diminish credit, card starts rising they wonder why and posts such as phone is dead start to appear.

What they should do is get out , on the street and be proactive.

When I started information was hard to come, you may have read about Servicemaster or Chem dry  in the Franchise Section of Daily Express  and thought that sounds good.

To me it was convincing as I hired Servicemaster , and some company from London to clean the large stores that I managed. And you know what they did not turn up with truckmounts  but bog standard portables  to clean 10, 20 25, 35, thousand square feet of carpet that was heavily troden on grit dust tar, etc for the past six months
 
Sent for details from Ashcombe, Extracta or got Fortunes to be be made  from Ashbys.

Or maybe ended up buying a crap machine from Ashleys in Huddersfield got mixed up with Ashbys

Information on marketing was not readily available  just told put out 1k a week of leaflets part time, 4k , full time and spend a day a week  door knocking, offer money back guarantee etc who needs Joe Polish
Dead easy as spent 5 days a week knocking to  sell windows etc. that is apart from crap machine.
How can the Industry be in Decline the recession of the 90s was worst than this record house repossessions high interest rates etc etc.

Today in my opinion there are more good quality supply companies who offer interesting products. They all appear to have success probably helped by these Forums

I have said elsewhere Mike Boxall should get the OBE for founding this Forum  Services to small Businiess  and the Cleaning Industry and also the origional Founders of Cleantalk should get BEM , cant have OBE because they sold out.

The reason people keep quiet is we are a small country and they do no not want people nicking their work.
Ive read over the years about Simon and his cruise ships but never any info on how he got his first job and how he set about it.

Ian,
Your original post included the above, but I notice you have now edited it.
I would be more than happy to start a topic on how I got into cruise ship cleaning, if people are interested, that is.
Also agree that Mike Boxall has done great things for this industry, hats off to the guy.

Simon

[garry22]

I would Simon,

I have no intention of joining you but I feel there is always something to be learned from success stories.

[Ian Gourlay]

In that case Simon from your bust up On clean Talk with ed. V I have been fascinated about how you got to clean a Cruise Ships in Southampton while living   in the North West

I do realize you have a big port that nicked all the trade from East Anglia in about 1650

[Simon Gerrard]

Ian,
Ed?
Not sure what you mean about the port in 1650, I wasn't around then

[Ian Gourlay]

We were the largest ports with the wool trade etc

Then you guys went slave trading and it all switched to Liverpool and Bristol

Got it back it a bit with smuggled goods and people traffic through Flexistowe

Ed Valenitine
  Big row when you posted a picture cleaning Cruise Ship Queen soothing I think

Guess what truckmount versus portable

 

[L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner]

Ian,do you know why Ashley`s in Huddersfield actually called
Himself Ashley`s ?
Don`t know wether they are still going or not.
Ashley`s,,,,,,,,that takes me back a bit.
If I write anymore I might leave myself open to liable,so better not
Perhaps.
Thinking about it further,,,yep,,,keep it buttoned.


Lewis  Doubtfire

P.S.

I will answer though the first line,provided you go first.

[Buckland]

Just come back from a long weekend in London and it was absolutely BUZZING and I mean BUZZING - you literally could not move for people - from before dawn to well after dark - the whole place obviously is about to be invaded further by the Lympic Movement etc but even so alot of the activity evident last week is only partially down to the Lympics - it is a truly Global city and the opportunities for carpet/uph cleaning are huge - I am sure there are plenty of people around london properly tooled up with tm's and porties ready to go but over five days I did not see a single Big Yellow or a privateer's van which surprised me.

We are in truth fairly few and far between and yet there are acres of hotel and restaurant plus theatre carpets let alone the upholstery plus the domestic side to be cleaned. I am sure there is plenty of churn and big jobs change hands all the time but outsiders must be able to go in and undercut. No doubt alot of the work is better suited to general janitorial companies with unmarked vehicles and porties for carpets and I guess nightime and weekend work is pretty routine for tm operators but there must still be plenty of opportunities for tm operators.

Now dont get me wrong I am (too lazy?) busy enough not to NEED to go there and CERTAIN I could not cope with the everyday hassle of working in London and full bloody marks to those that go in on a daily basis but there still has to be a sh*tload of work available FOR THOSE WILLING TO GO AFTER IT in a professional manner - no doubt it has tons of extra stress attached but I bet that don't stop Tony Moroni from Hicktown, New Jersey struggling into New York NY on a monday morning to clean carpets in a tower block in Lower Manhattan - I suspect there is also work for those that want it in London 24/7 week in week out, year in year out...

Just my take on a 'declining' industry - I think NOT!

Dave

PS Tony Moroni is a figleaf of my imagination!

[Ian Gourlay]

Hi Lewis no idea Bought Machine phoned up for advise as promised Mentoring about six weeks later told company taken over , phoned again thin line was dead.

Nothing against bloke  bought wrong machine.

if he had Internet it might have worked

Guy was called David Wilks do not think Ive said anything to be sued about.

There still is an an Ashleys Carpet Cleaners in Hull but I do not think there is any connection

And an Ashleys Garrage.  in Huddersfield . If I recall shop was near Rugby or Football Ground

[L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner]

Hi Ian,that’s right David Wilks.Called his company Ashley`s
Cos`, of Ashley Wilks a character in the 1938 film `Gone With
The Wind`.
Anyway enough of this cos`it`s off topic.


Lewis  Doubtfire

[mike roberts]

As we offer other 'cleaning' services (quick tin hat  ) A big issue which to be honest restricts our growth on the carpet / upholstery side is the demand for almost instant cleans. Most enquiries want the clean ...latest within next 2 weeks - on numerous occasions we simply cannot provide clean / service due to other commitments.
I know some will say its easier to fit the odd carpet in, But if there is such a demand for the service why / how is there room to fit these in  

With almost all the other services we offer customers are prepared to wait, in some cases over 8 wks. Has this situation always been the case with Carpet / upholstery cleaning

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I have customers that book 12 months in advance to reserve dates but on the whole no customers new and old cant wait that long (they will for decorators) but that's not so much an impulse buy.

Shaun

[mark_roberts]

There were a few years ago guys endorsed by Alltec who did tell us all how they where making thousands each week and driving new porsches (sp) etc etc.   But they all seem to have disappeared.

What ever happened to Martin Reilly from Devon. He was one of the big success stories when I met him.

The real secret of success is you.  People either like you or dont.  And if you dont have a likeable personality your sunk.

Mark

[clinton]

People have to like you as you said mark in the first place to get the work.

Shauns right as people will book a decorator months in advance but when it comes to carpets they want it asap

[Ian Gourlay]

Mark

I do not know how Martin is doing these days but legend has it he was one of the few who got it

Maximise your Business invest in other things and get out quick
I believe I was at Alltec  on a rug Course when the guy with Porsche phoned up and send he wanted to sell his truckmount a few years ago..as he was getting out.

My latest reading is the Shelf life of a carpet Cleaner is ten years You should expand like crazy  have 4 trucks and have systems in place so you can have a Manager and either sit on the Beach reaping the profits  or sell up.

by Mark Kennedy found it on Amazon. Secrets of Carpet Cleaning Giants or www.getofthevan.com

[benny d]

The above link has a spelling mistake. This works...

http://www.getoffthevan.com/

[Simon Gerrard]

I think some of you are confusing the word 'like' with 'respect'.
People need to respect you as a quality carpet cleaner, whether they like you as a person, whilst not unimportant, certainly isn't as important as them respecting you.

Simon

[Jim_77]

I think the general public have an equal amount of respect for those they perceive as "professionals" in a trade/service.  Unfortunately they give respect where it isn't due, when they don't know the difference between a highly qualified veteran of 10-20 yrs plus and a new start or cowboy who doesn't know his ar*e from his elbow.

If you respect two different plumbers equally, but one you like and the other you dislike, which one are you going to hire?

Just a thought

Also another thought, I have made some quote visits where I've genuinely really hit it off with the customer, we've chatted for ages about all sorts of stuff and the quote is just an incidental thing... next question "when can you come?", they barely even look at the quote.

The frostiest people are the ones who pore over a quote with furrowed brow and give you the "we'll be in touch" as they open the door as a hint for you to leave!

So I am definitely in agreement that it's very unlikely to not win a job from people who obviously like you when they meet you!

[wynne jones]

You have to adapt to each person. I can be frosty, I can be friendly. So long as they say yes!

Some people call this rapport. But basically you are a tart. 

[*Hector*]

You have to adapt to each person. I can be frosty, I can be friendly. So long as they say yes!

Some people call this rapport. But basically you are I am a big tart. 

corrected it for you Wynne......

You really must be more careful with typing

 

[Simon Gerrard]

Hector,
Basically you're a t_at

[wynne jones]

 

[neil 47]

eh up Ian have u got copies of them cds ill send you two first class stamps

Cheers neil