Tony Rowley

  • Posts: 257
Pricing
« on: November 09, 2011, 10:08:43 pm »
A lot has been discussed lately about prices, operators advertising extemely silly low prices and especially Groupon.

But I was thinking after the thread that Mike Halliday started about prices on websites, how many of you (and by that I mean the average bloke) think that the high prices some of our colleagues on here (and they know who they are) purport to charge(or would have you believe) drives customers away from carpet cleaning as they feel it is too expensive and in the end don't bother to get their carpets cleaned at all.

And by the way you wont find their prices anywhere because they are too scared to advertise them.

Some operators allege that they wont get out of bed unless its for £xxxx (without really even naming a figure, but clearly inflating their ego's), are these people doing as much damage to our industry as the low prices and Groupon? I think the answer is yes.

Being a good operator and providing a good service for a decent price is one thing, being a close relative of Dick Turpin is something else!!!!!

I wait to be burned......feel free to discuss. (or ignore me)

Tony






derek west

Re: Pricing
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 10:21:50 pm »
you can earn extremely good money without charging extortionate prices, its all about working smarter.

AshWhite

  • Posts: 3427
Re: Pricing
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2011, 10:26:02 pm »
I don't think people charging "too high" is really damaging the industry (though I am certainly not one of them).

Whenever I think that these prices are extortionate, I remember a job I was on a few months ago for a brother & sister who's father had just been put into a care home. The house was empty, and the locks needed changing. The locksmith came while I was there. I cleaned 3 rooms, charged £80 took me about 2 hours in total. The locksmith (I think it was a franchise company) was there no more than 15 minutes - "£127 + VAT please".

Call a plumber, electrician, carpenter out for any jobs, you'll be lucky to get any change out of a £100 - not to mention the fact that they get a markup on materials they supply.

If you perceive this to be a "unskilled" trade, then that's all you'll ever charge for.

It's not ideal, but I'm looking to increase my prices steadily over the next 12 months once I have established something of a reputation in the local area.

Also, I don't care what anyone says - if you're charging more then you are more able to provide a better service. For example - putting the rotary around after every suitable job to help drying/lessen wick back, perhaps spending more time on stubborn marks etc.

If you already have the time to do these things without worrying, then perhaps you are already charging enough FOR YOUR NEEDS.

That said, we're all self employed for a reason.
Carpet Cleaning http://www.floors2show.co.uk
Google Adwords Management http://www.pagecrest.co.uk

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 10:28:21 pm »
Do you see Mike Halliday's prices as being high ?

Shaun

John Kelly

  • Posts: 4461
Re: Pricing
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 10:34:04 pm »
Tony I see the full spectrum in my business. Would you rather be the guy who tries to buy a second hand vac motor when one of his blows or would you rather be the guy who can replace his truckmount every 3-5 years. I also have the largest Chem Dry franchise just up the road. His techs are in my place on a weekly basis. They have great pleasure in showing me their job sheets for the day and ther customer satisfaction forms they get back. High tickets good feedback. This is a business and you need to treat it as such. My feeling is with any business if you price mid range and do a good job you will succeed. However high returns are possible if you are that way inclined. I would never call anyone for pricing high. Most people only don't do it either because they don't pitch to that market or are scared.

Jamie Lindsay

  • Posts: 478
Re: Pricing
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 11:02:18 pm »
up here guys are charging 2 carpets £25 so I think thats killing it as when I talk to people I know they always talk about the bad cleaners

I think chemdry etc are good as they USUALLY do what it says on the tin

Jim_77

Re: Pricing
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2011, 12:42:50 am »
Tony, what do you think is a fair price?

For example:

- 3-pc suite
- 250ft² lounge
- EOT whole empty house 600ft² & stairs
- minimum charge (and how much work you'd do for it)

As JK rightly says above, it depends on the market you cater for and also your own perception of what is "value".

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: Pricing
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2011, 04:45:24 am »
how can we decided what the customer thinks is too high? we are not mind readers, really we are saying we think it is too high but we are not the customer.

i give my price to the customer and usually they say yes without a moments hesitation they don;t think the amount i have quoted is a great deal of money.

I went to a Wine & Xmas  Fair last night basically it was an expensive wine tasting, they were selling wine  at prices I thought were ridiculous, I saw a Christmas cake at £75 but people were putting orders in like crazy.... no matter what I thought was expensive they didn't.

 'High' prices are in the eye of the beholder
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Doug Holloway

  • Posts: 3917
Re: Pricing
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2011, 07:31:10 am »
Hi guys

The trick is to get top prices for adding perceived and real value.

A TM will assist in this, as will unique selling points.

Some customers like to pay a higher price, they think theyare getting a better job and therefore better value which is the key.

Cheers

Doug

Craigp

  • Posts: 1272
Re: Pricing
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2011, 08:27:10 am »
Tony you seem to have a lot of emotion attached to money, this is a problem for alot of people on here.

£ 150 might be a lot of money to you but it's really not too a lot of buyers of carpet cleaning.

Low prices puts some customers off.

Depends the market your targeting.

In 10 years the only successful carpet cleaners ive met charge high. Is this a coincidence?

To be honest you sound resentful.

Tony Rowley

  • Posts: 257
Re: Pricing
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2011, 09:11:58 am »
Interesting replies and overall the ones from the people I expected, however not what I originally asked.

Do I think Mikes prices are high? I have no idea, I looked at the web page on the other thread at the time and didnt particuarly think so but the question was not aimed at any individual, although some clearly feel it was.

I am not resentful of any amount any other individual makes and am happy making decent money at the prices I charge but directing that comment at me makes me think you are a litte childish Craigp.

Just wondered what the reaction would be when the tables were turned, many slag off the low price operators as damaging our business, which they probably do to an extent. I was just pondering wether the prices some would have you believe they charge could have the same affect.

Question asked and answered (I guess)


Tony

Helen

Re: Pricing
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2011, 09:25:09 am »
Hi guys

The trick is to get top prices for adding perceived and real value.

A TM will assist in this, as will unique selling points.

Some customers like to pay a higher price, they think theyare getting a better job and therefore better value which is the key.

Cheers

Doug

My ex boss is the type who gets insulted if he doesn't pay top whack for something....we do loads for him ;D ;D ;D

Helen

Re: Pricing
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2011, 09:29:17 am »
Tony you seem to have a lot of emotion attached to money, this is a problem for alot of people on here.

Being emotional and passionate about earning money is a problem??? I think not! Hands up who can honestly say they are not motivated by money

£ 150 might be a lot of money to you but it's really not too a lot of buyers of carpet cleaning.
Agree
Low prices puts some customers off.
agree
Depends the market your targeting.
Agree
In 10 years the only successful carpet cleaners ive met charge high. Is this a coincidence?
Maybe

We have advertised prices in the past, but mostly we don't.....didn't make a blind bit of difference :)

Colin Day

Re: Pricing
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2011, 11:43:39 am »
And here's Colin with "Cliché Corner"... ;D

If the customer's happy and you're happy, that's all that matters.

How many times do you say to someone "Yes, you'll be looking at £60 for me to clean that carpet" and get either of these 2 replies:- "Blimey, that's expensive! or "Wow, it's cheaper than I thought it was going to be!"

Not all cheap carpet cleaners do a crap job, just the same as not all expensive carpet cleaners do a good job.

Pricing is rather a personal thing IMO, if you want to earn enough to survive, that's fine. If you want to earn enough to be able to drive around in flash cars and snort charlie through a £50 note, then that's fine too.... :)

AshWhite

  • Posts: 3427
Re: Pricing
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2011, 11:55:40 am »
And here's Colin with "Cliché Corner"... ;D

If the customer's happy and you're happy, that's all that matters.

How many times do you say to someone "Yes, you'll be looking at £60 for me to clean that carpet" and get either of these 2 replies:- "Blimey, that's expensive! or "Wow, it's cheaper than I thought it was going to be!"

Not all cheap carpet cleaners do a crap job, just the same as not all expensive carpet cleaners do a good job.

Pricing is rather a personal thing IMO, if you want to earn enough to survive, that's fine. If you want to earn enough to be able to drive around in flash cars and snort charlie through a £50 note, then that's fine too.... :)

How much do I need to be charging, TELL ME PLEASE!!

 ;)
Carpet Cleaning http://www.floors2show.co.uk
Google Adwords Management http://www.pagecrest.co.uk

Colin Day

Re: Pricing
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2011, 01:49:06 pm »
And here's Colin with "Cliché Corner"... ;D

If the customer's happy and you're happy, that's all that matters.

How many times do you say to someone "Yes, you'll be looking at £60 for me to clean that carpet" and get either of these 2 replies:- "Blimey, that's expensive! or "Wow, it's cheaper than I thought it was going to be!"

Not all cheap carpet cleaners do a crap job, just the same as not all expensive carpet cleaners do a good job.

Pricing is rather a personal thing IMO, if you want to earn enough to survive, that's fine. If you want to earn enough to be able to drive around in flash cars and snort charlie through a £50 note, then that's fine too.... :)

How much do I need to be charging, TELL ME PLEASE!!

 ;)

God knows, I can't even afford pot..... ;D

Steve. Taylor

  • Posts: 1036
Re: Pricing
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2011, 02:31:06 pm »
God knows, I can't even afford pot.....

I can't afford a pot to p*** in me ;D ;D
Steve T       All the gear but no idea!
www.leatherrepairsouthampton.co.uk

clinton

Re: Pricing
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2011, 04:53:57 pm »
With the price list on the sites does it stop price shoppers now ???


Robin Ray

Re: Pricing
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2011, 05:15:38 pm »
The whole point of being self employed is to earn the most amount of money in the least amount of time.

You know when you are charging too much when people start saying no.

I don't know about anyone else but I would rather do one job at £200 than two at £100. Competing with other cleaners on price means rushing around doing a rubbish job at a low wage. Don't worry what others are charging, focus on providing a good service at the rate you fell comfortable earning and let the hear today gone tomorrow cleaners devalue themselves.

Rob

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2011, 05:47:07 pm »
It's easy to say get a £200 job instead of 2 x £100 but try selling a £100 job for £200!

Carpet cleaners on the whole are poor at selling their services because they are afraid of rejection, unless you are falling over with enquiries and getting your share of conversions then price is one key component in selling the idea is to switch price only to 'what would you like madam? Dry,deeper clean,Eco clean?' changing tact offers a premium service at a more premium price because you are offer options not the same and that is how to sell for £200 for a £100 job (which incidentally probably takes the same amount of time)

Shaun

Doug Holloway

  • Posts: 3917
Re: Pricing
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2011, 06:04:52 pm »
Hi Guys

There will always be CC's charging a whole range of prices, that is the way a market works.

Remember there are also a whole range of customers with a whole range of requirements.

I don't think either high or low damages the industry , it's just a fact of life.

Cheers

Doug

Robin Ray

Re: Pricing
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2011, 06:25:44 pm »
Not only is it easy to say it is also easy to do with a good customer base.
Its not about doubling what ever you think the job is worth. Its about building trust so you can charge what you think is reasonable rather than undercutting yourself just to get work. Its got to work for you otherwise theres plenty of jobs in tescos.

Up selling is a good way of making a job worth more, however what many people consider to be an add on should really in truth be part of a standard service. With all due respect though Shaun im not saying this is what you do.

Rob

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Pricing
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2011, 06:35:06 pm »
I sort of agree with Shaun, no one likes rejection and when you're desperate you fear 'losing' it, but guess what the guy who doesn't need it and goes in higher often wins the business.

If you are a one man band and only 24hrs in a day can you blame him for charging top whack if he has more work than week.    

Take responsibility for your own predicament not the guy who does 2 carpets for a tenner or the guy who charges £100/hr.
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2011, 06:42:32 pm »
Robin I never took offence I would also add that it's bad enough trying to get cleaners to get the peak price but up selling is classed as taboo to most, cleaners don't like to be sold to therefore they don't like selling extras, try buying a new car and see how many different up sells there are, we've just been looking to upgrade and I counted 8 up sells (it's a game I play sad really)

Shaun

Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)

  • Posts: 1834
Re: Pricing
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2011, 06:52:33 pm »
I don't think it's down to high prices - more a case of the type of properties that are worked in.

For example: my job this afternoon was 2 bedrooms, the price £ 143 !!

I charged my normal price per square metre, which is by no means extortianate - it's simply that this house was bloody huge.

And that's really my point. I'm lucky to live and work in an affluent area with some very exclusive estates containing multi million pound homes.

That's the lucky part, the skill is being able to deal with these people - offering a service that establishes trust and that makes price a secondary issue.

But I don't charge them any more than I would charge someone living in a 2 up 2 down - there's simply more carpet to physically clean than the average house.

The flip side to being able to earn that sort of money is the extra care that needs to be taken. I spent nearly an hour just setting up - dustsheets everywhere as they has expensive wood floors in the entrance hall and on the landing. I needed 75 foot of hose just to reach the bedrooms, which all had to be securely and safely tied off, so as not to cause any damage.

It all depends on what type of market you want to work in - my job on saturday is £ 280 for a 5 bedroom house - I'm not bragging and I don't consider myself to be expensive. But I do work in large properties and that's the type of client I market towards - I don't want to do 4 jobs a day, but each to their own.


Re: Pricing
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2011, 07:14:25 pm »
Steve, I couldn't have worded that better.

derek west

Re: Pricing
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2011, 07:20:13 pm »
picked up a leather chair from a regular today and his exact words were. "bring us the invoice on monday and no stupid mates rates prices, charge me properly"
i'm a bit of a softy with my regulars, yes i know, but thats just me.

Robin Ray

Re: Pricing
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2011, 07:46:58 pm »
" the skill is being able to deal with these people - offering a service that establishes trust and that makes price a secondary issue"

Absolutely!

bennymon

  • Posts: 816
Re: Pricing
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2011, 08:11:48 pm »
do a good job and you will keep a lot of your customers but times are hard for most people at the moment. im finding the new inquires will not pay as high no matter what you offer . lets face it when things are tight getting carpets cleaned is way down the list. :)

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2011, 08:36:22 pm »
I'm not too sure about that my average spend has gone up by 20% this year.

Shaun

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: Pricing
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2011, 08:36:39 pm »
the reason some carpet cleaners moan about the higher priced people in our industry is because they don't have the bottle to  look at themselves with a critical eye, its a lot easier to call someone a robber than to admit they are a bad businessman.

some lower priced carpet cleaners will always be able to justify to themselves that the price they charge is right and anyone else who is higher is ripping of the customer.

they can give themselves loads of excuses reason why customers won't pay a higher price

were the real truth is they are not worth the higher price as they don't believe they are worth it
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2011, 08:50:58 pm »
Spoken like a real Yorkshireman, where's the like button?

Shaun

bennymon

  • Posts: 816
Re: Pricing
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2011, 09:32:17 pm »
when it comes to price im not ever gonna be really cheap but im prepared to lower prices a bit to get work .if you have a bad month you cant pay bills on a promise the next month will be good. ;)

Tony Rowley

  • Posts: 257
Re: Pricing
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2011, 09:35:04 pm »
the reason some carpet cleaners moan about the higher priced people in our industry is because they don't have the bottle to  look at themselves with a critical eye, its a lot easier to call someone a robber than to admit they are a bad businessman.

some lower priced carpet cleaners will always be able to justify to themselves that the price they charge is right and anyone else who is higher is ripping of the customer.

they can give themselves loads of excuses reason why customers won't pay a higher price

were the real truth is they are not worth the higher price as they don't believe they are worth it


That, to be honest is the biggest load of nonsense I have read in a long while.

Tony

Re: Pricing
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2011, 09:50:05 pm »


were the real truth is they are not worth the higher price as they don't believe they are worth it


That, to be honest is the biggest load of nonsense I have read in a long while.

Tony

I can understand both sides of the arguement here but consider this:
My BMW is getting near it's service date do I (a) take it to the local garage who will charge me £124 or (b) do I go to a BMW dealer who will charge me £224

They will both do the same job and the end result will be the same, so which should I go for?

AshWhite

  • Posts: 3427
Re: Pricing
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2011, 09:57:57 pm »
Neil,
If you were buying a BMW, would you buy the one with full BMW SH or the one with part BMW part local garage?
Carpet Cleaning http://www.floors2show.co.uk
Google Adwords Management http://www.pagecrest.co.uk

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2011, 09:59:54 pm »
A BMW service stamp will add value to your car also if you are unhappy you can make more noise.

Shaun

Re: Pricing
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2011, 10:22:57 pm »
Thanks guys
I was hoping you'd come back with exactly that. So on that basis



A carpet cleaned by Chemdry must be better than if cleaned by 'Cleanacarpet Ltd'???



On that basis we should be really cheap compared to the big 3 franchises, but are we really?

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2011, 10:29:04 pm »
There's no resale value of a 2nd hand carpet

Shaun

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: Pricing
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2011, 10:34:37 pm »
that BMW comparison is wrong, you cannot compare a service  from main dealership who supplied a car with cleaning a carpet.

 to make the comparison correct then it would have to be........

'Axminster' supply & fit a carpet, they then clean the carpet and reapply the protector to maintain their 10yr warranty  this is what you are buying when going to a main dealer

then this would be better than cleanacarpet LTD
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Pricing
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2011, 10:56:22 pm »
the reason some carpet cleaners moan about the higher priced people in our industry is because they don't have the bottle to  look at themselves with a critical eye, its a lot easier to call someone a robber than to admit they are a bad businessman.

some lower priced carpet cleaners will always be able to justify to themselves that the price they charge is right and anyone else who is higher is ripping of the customer.

they can give themselves loads of excuses reason why customers won't pay a higher price

were the real truth is they are not worth the higher price as they don't believe they are worth it


That, to be honest is the biggest load of nonsense I have read in a long while.

Tony

I'd take stock and consider what Mike is saying again. No one else can put you out of business only yourself. If you accept you are the problem you can do something about it, if you don't you can blame others when you're going for job interviews.
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

Re: Pricing
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2011, 11:04:18 pm »
Sorry but Cleanacarpet Ltd don't make carpets so can't be compared with Axminster.

You buy an item, could be anything, car, carpet, oven, boat etc which from time to time requires servicing.

There's is a choice between (a) the manufacturer/manufacturers representitive doing the work or (b) someone else qualified but not tied to said manufacturer.

Choice (a) does it for £x but (b) does exactly the same under the same standards for £x-30%

I know which one I'm going for.

Of course people think they are getting better because they pay more, and with plush premises, suit and tie that's helps push the price up too, but it doesn't really mean you are getting more for your money

AshWhite

  • Posts: 3427
Re: Pricing
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2011, 11:08:50 pm »
But Mrs Jones doesn't know what she's getting for her money. Would she feel aggrieved if there was no pre-vac, if it took 24 hours to dry, if ALL the stains didn't come out?

If you said "I know I'm £50 more, but check out my new polo shirt" you'd get nowhere. If you said "I know I'm £50 more, but I'll leave your carpets drier, cleaner, and do a more thorough job than someone who only charges £X amount" then you've at least got a fighting chance.

She wouldn't know any different until she's tried 2 seperate companies. In the mean time, it's up to you to convince her that the extra you're charging makes a difference.

Carpet Cleaning http://www.floors2show.co.uk
Google Adwords Management http://www.pagecrest.co.uk

Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)

  • Posts: 1834
Re: Pricing
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2011, 11:24:22 pm »
If you can afford a BMW you don't quibble about the cost of a main dealer service.

If you can afford a £2 million pound house you don't quibble about the cost of carpet cleaning.

You do, however, expect a certain standard of workmanship, customer service and trustworthiness.

I know the guys who charge top money in this game and I know the type of clients they work for - you don't see them on here bitching about cleaning up cat poop and being knocked for £100, they are not working for that type of client.

If you advertise cheap prices then you're going to get a diverse cross-section of clients - or maybe not, but I know what market I prefer.

Jim_77

Re: Pricing
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2011, 11:51:50 pm »
Yeah, what steve said! :)

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2011, 04:11:53 pm »
I've had many a barter with people in the biggest homes, as one of my other customers once said to me "big house, big car, nowt int fridge", Jason L said that alot of his Groupon buyers were from the poshest homes and I'd agree.

I'm a BMW owner (well my gaffer is) and we don't go their for tyres I can tell you!

Shaun

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Pricing
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2011, 04:52:56 pm »
Cleaned this on a group on , most floors were wood or tile , one lounge alone was 38m2  , that was her groupon deal , she expected 2 big bedrooms cleaned too in with the deal.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-29875222.html/svr/2702?premiumA=true

Eventually agreed on £70  so I ended up with £93  for 2 hours on site , by the end of the job she was delighted ,got to go and clean 4 flats for her next month/early Jan .

She has lost millions in the recession because of developments left unsold , wanted a bargain , got one , I am happy she is happy.

This has been repeated several times on my Groupon project , I also cleaned a barnsley footballer house yesterday on a groupon , £130 extra booked in .  
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

derek west

Re: Pricing
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2011, 07:06:44 pm »
Cleaned this on a group on , most floors were wood or tile , one lounge alone was 38m2  , that was her groupon deal , she expected 2 big bedrooms cleaned too in with the deal.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-29875222.html/svr/2702?premiumA=true

Eventually agreed on £70  so I ended up with £93  for 2 hours on site , by the end of the job she was delighted ,got to go and clean 4 flats for her next month/early Jan .

She has lost millions in the recession because of developments left unsold , wanted a bargain , got one , I am happy she is happy.

This has been repeated several times on my Groupon project , I also cleaned a barnsley footballer house yesterday on a groupon , £130 extra booked in .  
cheers for that jay, ive been looking for a retirement home ;)

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2011, 07:25:33 pm »
That's the start of the expensive house area and they are as tight as anything (sitation deleted) I prefer the poorer classes.

Shaun

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Pricing
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2011, 07:29:26 pm »
What you on about Shaun it was one step below your place
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

Paul H

  • Posts: 878
Re: Pricing
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2011, 07:41:23 pm »
Barnsley footballer......

You want to be football league or premier league...?   think this sums this post up quite nicely

Im happy being sunday league! lol :D 

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2011, 07:42:53 pm »
I live in the cardboard next to the wheelie bin, bet they have a bigger mortgage than me though :o

Shaun

Re: Pricing
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2011, 07:46:02 pm »
Cleaned this on a group on , most floors were wood or tile , one lounge alone was 38m2  , that was her groupon deal , she expected 2 big bedrooms cleaned too in with the deal.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-29875222.html/svr/2702?premiumA=true

Eventually agreed on £70  so I ended up with £93  for 2 hours on site , by the end of the job she was delighted ,got to go and clean 4 flats for her next month/early Jan .

She has lost millions in the recession because of developments left unsold , wanted a bargain , got one , I am happy she is happy.

This has been repeated several times on my Groupon project , I also cleaned a barnsley footballer house yesterday on a groupon , £130 extra booked in .  

Someone tell me this flies in the face of the 'normal' groupon type customer. I'm finding it hard to believe that people living to that standard are scrubbing around the net looking for Liddle type bargins.
Somehow I bet the car she drives isn't a Y Reg Ford Escort

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Pricing
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2011, 07:55:21 pm »
2010 MERCEDES eCLASS COUPE ON A NICE PRIVATE plate .


Was in a Bamford mill conversion yesterday , barn conversion , retired owner of a welding set manufacturer today , ex director of Forgemasters last week.

I have been amazed at the amount of high end customers using Groupon , princess anne is a user! 

I am also amazed at the latent demand for carpet cleaning , people want VALUE not cheap prices.

When people see me  and use my services they know that next time they will get ,,,

No nonsense or fuss, low profile carpet cleaner

Well dressed , clean operator they can trust

Fast drying

ON time

Fair pricing

Most stains removed

That is what these bust people want  nothing more or less , they  just think it is flim flam all this TM talk and amazing chemical chat , and price plan bull.


I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2011, 08:09:07 pm »
They are nice the ones opposite the dam I nearly bought one a few years ago but they weren't cheap and the let very well and only a hop skip and a jump to the Yorkshire Bridge pub which do very nice dinners.

Shaun

Re: Pricing
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2011, 08:20:38 pm »
2010 MERCEDES eCLASS COUPE ON A NICE PRIVATE plate .

Not surprised at all, which beggers the question why would someone who shops at Groupon spend £40k-£50k on a car instead of just making do with a Skoda. Yet when they want a service think they can get it for next to nothing.

Mr Confused

Ricky M

  • Posts: 852
Re: Pricing
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2011, 08:27:01 pm »
mm... pricing eh, that old chestickle nut !

after 4 years and completely changing the processes involved in general wall to wall carpet cleaning I charge 2 - 3 times as much , various factors involved here i.e distance, type of carpet, stature of client-they want the extra mile services and there not normally in !!
   ( min job ticket for joe bloggs: 1 small room, at £54 inc vat ) and yes I/we are busy , maybe a little too busy to really enjoy all the hard work but I really interact with my clients and it opens lots of doors for us.

Pricing in in the eye of the beholder ,its what they value there services and wealth of knowledge at, this is a very personal business we are involved in and if done correctly is bloody skilled and hard work .

All IMO of course  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
www.ability1975.co.uk
                          www.carpetcleaninguttoxeter.co.uk  
              NCCA !? but why have non of my clients herd of them ??

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2011, 08:30:52 pm »
There's a lovely cafe near us ran by a farmer they are on Groupon selling meal, we buy from them at the full price it really is good quality stuff so my mrs has taken advantage of groupon (the turn coat :o) if people want a bargain let them have it but I'm all out of bargains but as Ester used to say "that's life"

Shaun

Tony Rowley

  • Posts: 257
Re: Pricing
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2011, 09:21:56 pm »
I started this subject to see what replies would come forward and overall I got what I expected from most people. I can honestly say that the only persons views or opinion that made sense was Steve Barnnets, without being predudice or vindictive or belittling others made his point honestly.

The thread was not about what was right or wrong regarding pricing but was just to raise discussion.

Snide remarks and  vindictiveness is what I and many others get from the "BIGGER BOYS" suggesting that I/we dont know  to run a business etc etc etc.

I have been around a bit, for 20 odd years I have been managing people and customers and I can honestly say that in any business I have been involved in I have valued my honesty and integrity above anything else. When in business ( unless you are a politician or a banker) they are the key fundamental values to success (sounds old fashioned  I know).

In my last job I walked after 10 years from £40k, company car etc because i did not believe in the direction the company was going in and the MD was a complete idiot, I valued my honesty and integrity more than my job.

Do I regret my decision? never, only wished I had left earlier and started working for myself many years ago.

Some of the BIGGER BOYS on here need to get a grip, I think its a fear of old age but I could be wrong but reading your replies honesty or integrity are probably words your not familiar with, robbery and.............., sorry sounds like sour grapes.....

So I and many others will continue to run our businesses run on basic, honest values and you BIGGER BOYS will continue with yours.

Discussion is a wonderful thing.

This is clearly all assumption as I have never met you and you have never met me!

Tony





Carpet Dawg

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Pricing
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2011, 09:33:38 pm »
You sound like a barrel of laughs Tony!  ;D

Tony Rowley

  • Posts: 257
Re: Pricing
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2011, 09:57:26 pm »
To be honest I am, just some people and their opinions really p**s me off, I am passionate about what I do and the business I run and the service I provide, albeit a below par simple service for the unemployed council house customer!!!!

Thats mostly rubbish, i avoid council estates as much as I can but being in central London sometimes its unavoidable. And my service is THE BEST in the area.

Tony

Paul H

  • Posts: 878
Re: Pricing
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2011, 10:04:44 pm »
I started this subject to see what replies would come forward and overall I got what I expected from most people. I can honestly say that the only persons views or opinion that made sense was Steve Barnnets, without being predudice or vindictive or belittling others made his point honestly.

The thread was not about what was right or wrong regarding pricing but was just to raise discussion.

Snide remarks and  vindictiveness is what I and many others get from the "BIGGER BOYS" suggesting that I/we dont know  to run a business etc etc etc.

I have been around a bit, for 20 odd years I have been managing people and customers and I can honestly say that in any business I have been involved in I have valued my honesty and integrity above anything else. When in business ( unless you are a politician or a banker) they are the key fundamental values to success (sounds old fashioned  I know).

In my last job I walked after 10 years from £40k, company car etc because i did not believe in the direction the company was going in and the MD was a complete idiot, I valued my honesty and integrity more than my job.

Do I regret my decision? never, only wished I had left earlier and started working for myself many years ago.

Some of the BIGGER BOYS on here need to get a grip, I think its a fear of old age but I could be wrong but reading your replies honesty or integrity are probably words your not familiar with, robbery and.............., sorry sounds like sour grapes.....

So I and many others will continue to run our businesses run on basic, honest values and you BIGGER BOYS will continue with yours.

Discussion is a wonderful thing.

This is clearly all assumption as I have never met you and you have never met me!

Tony






Paul H

  • Posts: 878
Re: Pricing
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2011, 10:16:38 pm »
Tony... i left a 42k a year job mate... i earn less at the minute but i know now and in time i made the right decision.. i wont get into the whys and what for ..

cant believe the negativity and stereo typing towards council estates...  i was dragged up on one so was my wife.. we have done ok.. parents still live on such estates... together with many other decent down to earth people... these poeple are polite friendly ... they will pay without quibble (i aint bothered where are how they get their money) so long as they pay....some are probably as well off as those on private estates but choose to remain in that community as its all they have known....

cant believe the ignorance of people on here towards them.... sound like too many up their own a£ses and have been brought up with a silver spoon in their mouths... get with it!.. in the current climate its about retain and improve what you have as its cheaper than replacing..... so council estates may just prove a lucrative market for those leaflets!!!

to finish i have seen a chem dry operator working on such estates... food for thought

Paul H

  • Posts: 878
Re: Pricing
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2011, 10:22:27 pm »
happy mondays

sounds like you need a better accountant... or you have one and should be really payong 60K tax

Tony Rowley

  • Posts: 257
Re: Pricing
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2011, 10:48:39 pm »
I won't mention any names but there is 2 real big gobs here always putting people down, 1. Put out thousands of leaflets a month, if you put out that amount of leaflets you could not fail to gain business, but surely if you have been in business that long you would have a decent customer base and wouldnt need to do that every month! Also said person does not send out reminders because the leaflets remind them to call him, where is the premium personal service in that? Just does nit make sense to me! The other has a franchise so obviously feels superior to the rest of us but has the comfort zone of knowing its nit in someone else's interest for them to fail! Bur has such an ego he probably couldn't get his head into wembley stadium.

These kind of attitudes really get to me.

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2011, 11:00:16 pm »
Jim and Mike are 2 of the best contributors on here they have added loads to the forum nearly as much as me!

Shaun

 PS Come on Tony you've only been here 2 mins I'm afraid you'll have to stand in line before you get first shot at these 2

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: Pricing
« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2011, 11:00:40 pm »
 Tony

i would take your post to heart if it wasn't for the fact I've looked at your prices on your website......... and now i just smile to my self ;D ;D ;D

 we are different cleaners obviously in different leagues
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Tony Rowley

  • Posts: 257
Re: Pricing
« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2011, 11:09:17 pm »
Mike

Yes, you don't advertise your prices but charge by deception where as I am honest and charge with honesty and integrity, oh yes and I am younger and you!

Tony Rowley

  • Posts: 257
Re: Pricing
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2011, 11:15:11 pm »
Shaun

You have been here a long time, does that make you opinion more valuable than mine?

Tony Rowley

  • Posts: 257
Re: Pricing
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2011, 11:29:33 pm »
Mike

Doing the same thing every month does not make you a good businessman however much you charge

Tony

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Pricing
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2011, 11:55:32 pm »
Tony

If you are doing well and your customers are happy why even start this thread, forget other peoples pricing policy.

This Dick Turpin idea of yours doesn't wash. Do these guys who charge BIG MONEY in your eyes have satisfied customers who have them come back year after year? Er I think they do. So who are you to say these customers are being robbed?

You seem to be pointing the finger at those  who charge low prices and people who charge high prices. Are you feeling squeezed out or something?
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: Pricing
« Reply #71 on: November 12, 2011, 04:18:29 am »
quote;
Mike

Doing the same thing every month does not make you a good businessman however much you charge

Tony


errrrr.....  yes it does,  finding a winning formula and repeating it is what a successful business does to stay successful

quote:
Mike

Yes, you don't advertise your prices but charge by deception where as I am honest and charge with honesty and integrity, oh yes and I am younger and you!


I'm guessing you have been drinking, this topic was started because you saw my post about my prices on my website, then took the hump  because I made a suggestion that low priced cleaners like you should do a bit of self evaluations.

Its so  nice  having someone with your honesty & integrity here..... it balances out all the crooks who charge with deception :) :)
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Steve_Knight

  • Posts: 399
Re: Pricing
« Reply #72 on: November 12, 2011, 07:16:00 am »
I've had many a barter with people in the biggest homes, as one of my other customers once said to me "big house, big car, nowt int fridge", Jason L said that alot of his Groupon buyers were from the poshest homes and I'd agree.

I'm a BMW owner (well my gaffer is) and we don't go their for tyres I can tell you!

Shaun

Tell me about it Shaun
£5-600 per boot!! :o

Re: Pricing
« Reply #73 on: November 12, 2011, 07:47:50 am »
that is all that I pay for a CAR never mind a wheel.................

 ;D ;D

Nigel_W

Re: Pricing
« Reply #74 on: November 12, 2011, 08:26:16 am »
Tony

If you charge too high a price for the service you are providing then you will go out of business within a short space of time. Alot of the people on this board who charge higher prices have been around a long time and have clearly found a successfull formula for finding and retaining clients at better prices. If they were highway robbers they simply wouldnt last long because to survive in this business you need repeat clients.

Whether people tell the truth about pricing and how busy they are is a different matter. I guess some do and some don't. Those of us who have been around these boards a long time get to know who is consistent in their messages and whose information can be relied upon.


Nigel



 

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Pricing
« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2011, 08:38:35 am »
Nigel is quite right in what he says. I tend not to quote figures and  take little notice of those that do, simply because there can be an element of bravado involved in it. Pricing is a very local thing, I believe. Some people in affluent areas can get higher prices than those in less affluent areas, but the trick is to work out what price you want, given your costs etc and how much the local market will bear so that you end up getting more people that say yes, than say no. I certainly wouldn't base my prices on anything I'd read on a forum and that is why it is pointless asking the question because often the answers, even if they were true, would not apply to your area.
Simon

fitz2kleen

  • Posts: 373
Re: Pricing
« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2011, 08:42:07 am »
( coffs )
Hi there :D

Dont post much these days as im out and about doing the blood sweat and tears thing ,

while i have no intention of putting anyone down in all of these comments there is one thing that stands out 'salesmanship'

Yes there are C/C's out there who have the gift of the gab and could sell there granny, I for one dont fall into that catergry, but I can talk the hind legs off a donkey and interact with a customer which at the end of the day makes that person want to use ME.
A C/C is what a C/C does if you are robotic and offer a C/C service yes you will get bookings but you wont get the return bookings.
I used to survey every job enquirey but like we all know that is an expense we can all not afford unless our conversion rates are 100% but I will still survey a quote if the customer is unsure or unclear of what they want and my conversion rate there is 75%-80%.
There are a lot of C/C's out there that think this buisness is an easy way to earn a living how wrong they are, just cleaning carpets/upholstery every other day moght be fine today but tomorrow there are overheads to pay, We never intended to be just C/C's as we have other strings to our bows that are comming into there own now.
I know people in the C/C trade that sell themselves on the fact they have a truckmount and because of this they believe they are the bee's knees of C/C think again.
Where you live and the area's you service has a paramount effect on the price you charge, knowing you customer is important and more so how you treat that person.
how do you talk to a person on millionaires row?
I talk to the council estate potential customer as though they live on millionaires row but I cut my pricing cloth accordingly,
Yes I have a minimum charge otherwise id be doing granny crabapples carpets for nowt but she will be more likley to book me because by the time she has put the phone down she will feel that I will be looking after her house/flate/bedsit as though it were on millionaires row.
lets not forget a man/womans home IS THERE CASTLE.

Rant over i have a booking
be well all
REGARDS MARK

jasonl

  • Posts: 3183
Re: Pricing
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2011, 10:25:29 am »
If you take Sheffield , where Shaun and I operate as a typical city , albeit one where tens of thousands of jobs have been lost from the steel and coal industries.

The city is still very prosperous , and still very poor at the same time , Shaun will agree that you can drive a few hundred metres from millionaires mansions , to some of the worst deprivation in europe .

Pricing is more about value than the exact £ amount .   When Shaun first came to my house 10 years ago it was a detached house with 3 garages  on a golf course, I now live in a 3 bed end of terrace house worth a fifth of that house half a mile away , my spending habits are still the same , I am the same person , I look for value , not price .

This is what Groupon , or any other customer wants , above all else , it does not matter where they live at all or what the social status.
I clean carpets
I dry Buildings

Craigp

  • Posts: 1272
Re: Pricing
« Reply #78 on: November 12, 2011, 03:26:16 pm »

To quote Martin Riley ( I bet a lot of people on here don't know who he is, there's so many new names every time I come back on here) who quoted Winston Churchill..



"Income should be increased to meet expenses, not expenses lowered to meet income"


Re: Pricing
« Reply #79 on: November 12, 2011, 05:26:21 pm »
I do believe that there had just been a war, there was almost full employment and the British public at large were starting to enjoy spending money...........

Whereas we are IN THE MIDDLE OF RECESSION


slight difference then eh??

Craigp

  • Posts: 1272
Re: Pricing
« Reply #80 on: November 12, 2011, 05:31:13 pm »
Im not in a recession.

Ive noticed no drop in business.

Maybe your getting something wrong?

Re: Pricing
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2011, 05:32:11 pm »
I was on about the Country .........

not your cozy little world

wynne jones

  • Posts: 2918
Re: Pricing
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2011, 06:48:25 pm »
Im not in a recession.

Ive noticed no drop in business.

Maybe your getting something wrong?

You're just lucky.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/derren-brown-the-experiments/4od#3256877
It's not expensive, you just can't afford it.

PaulKing

  • Posts: 1626
Re: Pricing
« Reply #83 on: November 13, 2011, 07:56:06 am »
BMW and ford,
 same sort of car
similar size
same number of parts
About £200 worth of steel in them both

So why the Big difference in price, but basically the same thing, just the intangable things that separate them, design, technology, inability of a BMW owners to indicate

Toyota aygo and Citroen C1 are made on the same line in The same factory by the same people and only have dirrent plastic wings And bumpers that are exactly the same size, so why is the Toyota £800 more on a 6k car ? With similar resale values.

 in a nutshell it's all about how you sell and how you or your brand are perceived. Truth is if you market yourself as cheaper thats what your usp is, it's  very hard to change that, if you hearing "I use you because your cheaper and the same job" your customers loyal to price not you. 

Sir alan Sugar busniess empire used to be called Amstrad makers of chatty electricals that fell to bits, but peolple bought loads of, he's change his brand now to shouthy bad tempered tv person and they never say Amstrad ( wonder why.)

 if your main BMW dealer offered a £200 service for £60 they sell out in a flash. offer a one series for fiesta money same thing

Offer a well marketed service for a low price same thing, if you can make it work best of luck to you


www.revitaclean.com  established 1968 in Newcastle Upon Tyne

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #84 on: November 13, 2011, 08:47:54 am »
Sorry Paul don't agree you drive a Ford then drive a BMW you'll find that the drive and build quality is superior I've had both and it's the price you pay for a nicer looking car with a smoother ride in a safer car.

Shaun

Re: Pricing
« Reply #85 on: November 13, 2011, 02:58:54 pm »
For the rest of us who are not in Craigp's jolly little world



Repossession, repossession, repossession

Every quarter, the Council of Mortgage Lenders publishes figures on the number of repossessions that have taken place, and of late the message has been pretty positive, with the figures regularly being lower than expected.

As a result, people like me can get a little bit complacent about it. After all, the number of properties repossessed in the first half of this year was down 7% on the same period last year. Good news right?

Well yes, but that was still 18,100 properties that lenders took back from borrowers.

And that's just the number of repossessions that actually took place, what about the borrowers who are simply being warned that if things don't improve, they may lose their homes? There are currently 164,500 mortgages where the borrower is in arrears of more than 2.5% of the mortgage balance. Sure, that figure has fallen, but it's still an awful lot of people who are seriously behind on their mortgage payments.

Undoubtedly, some of these people will have no-one but themselves to blame. Perhaps they told a few porky pies in order to get a larger mortgage than they should have, and now the chickens have come home to roost. But equally, plenty of them will simply be victims of circumstance, caught out by an economic crash that was not their fault.

Kicking out tenants

The situation is hardly any better in the rental market.

Social landlords are already reporting a rise in rent arrears following the government's move to reduce housing benefit earlier this year. Meanwhile, research by the Financial Inclusion Centre earlier this year concluded that as many as three million renters are in a vulnerable position, either behind on their rent or struggling to pay it each month.

What's more, with rents continuing their astronomic rise — barely a month goes by without one firm active in the rental market proclaiming a new record high — this is only likely to get worse.

We've never had it so tough

Last year, an adviser to the government, Lord Young, was forced to resign after an interview in which he suggested that as a nation, we had never had it so good (he's back, with his own office in Number 10 now, by the way). A year on, that statement looks even dafter.

Inflation currently stands at a mammoth 5.2%, miles higher than the Bank of England's target of 2%. And our salaries aren't moving upwards at anything like that rate, if at all. Add to that the fact that job security continues to weaken, with unemployment now at a 17-year high, and it becomes clear that pennies have rarely been so tightly stretched. We can't even rely on a return on our cash if we've managed to save in the past, with rates on savings accounts utterly underwhelming.

In fact, for some, it's only the fact that interest rates are so low therefore keeping variable mortgage rates low too, that is keeping things from completely collapsing.



This is the real world at the moment....

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: Pricing
« Reply #86 on: November 13, 2011, 03:21:16 pm »
hector that does make look bad but any figures  can be made to look bad...

of of this 18000 only 15% were actually regular users of a carpet carpet cleaning company ( according to a study by rainbow int only 15% of the population use a carpet cleaner) so that's 2700 actual customer lost in this country...... if their are a 1000 carpet cleaning companies  then we have all lost 2.7 customers should we all be worried about 2.7 customers?

this is a very simplistic view but isn't my view a more healthy positive view than yours :D

Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Doug Holloway

  • Posts: 3917
Re: Pricing
« Reply #87 on: November 13, 2011, 03:28:00 pm »
Hi Guys

I think the point Craig was trying to make is that CC seems to have weathered the recession quite well and that some have seen no drop in income at all.

This is probably due to the clean rather than replace mentaility.

Cheers

Doug

Craigp

  • Posts: 1272
Re: Pricing
« Reply #88 on: November 13, 2011, 03:47:33 pm »
Thank you Doug, that is my point.

Also Hector, I don't live on a Cosey world, believe me a lot of hard work over many years was put in to be in the position I am now. I'm sure that's true for all the others on here doing well too.

derek west

Re: Pricing
« Reply #89 on: November 13, 2011, 03:49:25 pm »
we're allllllll doooooomed i tellya, doooooooomed. ;D

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: Pricing
« Reply #90 on: November 13, 2011, 03:57:36 pm »

To quote Martin Riley ( I bet a lot of people on here don't know who he is, there's so many new names every time I come back on here) who quoted Winston Churchill..



"Income should be increased to meet expenses, not expenses lowered to meet income"



Is he still in the property business ??? ???

Craigp

  • Posts: 1272
Re: Pricing
« Reply #91 on: November 13, 2011, 06:40:26 pm »
As far as I know Ian, he sold his c/c ing business in 2007 ish I think.

Hopefully hes doing ok, not a great time to be in property.


Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11381
Re: Pricing
« Reply #92 on: November 13, 2011, 07:07:25 pm »
I'm sure someone said he was back doing it again infact I'm sure he's been doing some work at Alltec regarding marketing.

Shaun

Jim_77

Re: Pricing
« Reply #93 on: November 14, 2011, 02:12:52 am »
So why was my name dragged in to this?!!!!