[simon knight]

Thing that got me with the vid is that:
1. The guy convieniently could park right outside the house.
2. It doesn't show him doing the back...does he trail a hose pipe through the house?
3. How does he get at Velux's without ladders?
4. Please don't tell me "pure" water will get baked-on bird s##t off completely!
5. Presumably the dirty water gathers on the sills...didn't see him wiping those down.
6. What happens if 1/2 way through the day he runs out of DW or the battery flats?

Yesterday I did a 6 bed house with old fashioned leaded glass...you know the sort...all at different angles...have to be carefull how much pressure applied and YES! then I could see how much a WFP would be beneficial. Also if I were to do low-rise office blocks...yep can see the advantage as well. But away from that for me it's ladders, bucket blade and scrim.

And finally: I'm confident that by the time the guy got that contraption out of his van and set it up etc that I'd have done both those windows and been onto the ground ones.  Also I wouldn't  have the aggro of putting the whole thing away.

[C Senor]

Please don't get me wrong here Ian & Tosh, i am not a WFP hater ! lol

In fact, i am very curious about it and on my own round i know of instances it would be very useful.

Perhaps i was a bit hasty in defending Squeaks' opinion and perhaps there is a history of 'debating' between you guys that i'm not aware of. (i'll note this for the future)  

However, Tosh is right in one thing that he said - that it does feel (to me) that the WFP system is being sold to us at every corner (this thread is actually a very good example of why i feel this) - This isn't a problem for me, just something that i have felt increasing over the last few weeks while reading threads.

I do like reading the WFP threads because of my curiosity and there's alot of great posts and honest opinions, i think Neil offers a very honest opinion if it, thanks Neil.

 

[C Senor]

Just thought of something concerning WFP...

I used to be a pro decorator working in the construction industy. I worked with a load of blokes who for many years had used a 'roller pole'

I think its a very similar action to the window cleaning, but to be honest the WFP probably puts more strain on the back of your neck and shoulders (this is a guess) due to the heights worked at.

My point is, that after years of rolling walls and ceilings with a paint roller some of the blokes i've worked with can barely move their heads now !! they get severe pains and a 'stiff neck' situation where the back of their necks are damaged from years of using the poles. One guy i know can't move his head left or right.

This isn't a joke of any kind, i think its something you guys should be very careful about.

Carl.

[neil100]

C Senor,

Its good that you are curious about wfp.

If you are a w/c then of course its only logical that wfp should intrest you. Its a way of cleaning windows that removes the risks involved with ladder work. A good freind of mine had a very nasty fall 20 yrs ago when w/c. He nearly had his right arm amputated because of the extent of his injuires.

But other then the Safety issue you have to ask yourself can you make more money from wfp, and will it do as good as a job as trad w/c? The answer is YES to both questions.


I was curious for a year about wfp, but I was also happy with trad w/c. It was August last year when I asked one of my freinds to clean my own windows with wfp. I had a go myself on two windows and watched him do the rest.

I only did two windows because I was cream crackerd after doing 2 windows. My first impression was its not for me, its too hard and I dont like it. I checked the windows and I was impressed with the finnish. But what really got to me was the time diffrence. It takes me over 40 mins and with wfp it took 30 mins, and that was with me being taught how to use it.

From then on I could not get wfp out of my head. I decided to Research wfp to death. I spoke to lots of w/c who had switched to wfp,I had demos as well from all the big boys.

 A year on, I wish I had made the switch to wfp many years ago.

Sorry Simon,

Your post does not hold water. Have you timed him to see how quick he is in setting up in the video. If your not wearing red underpants on the outside of your trousers with a Big S on your chest you will not be faster.

If you look at  video 1.
How will you put your ladders up to to clean the window above the porch? If you put them straight up, the angle will be to Dangerous, Plus there is a large bush in the way as well. Will you also be carrying your ladder support?

You are just trying to make jibes about wfp that dont stack up.

Nel

[Easyclean Windows]

If you want fast and accurate, look no further than our own Terry (squeegee god) Burrows.
You wouldn't get near him.

On a plain glass window in central london but most people on here live in small towns or villages ? what about leaded? 5 floors up ?

oh i forgot you only do £2 houses all day all year when us who have invested in wfp have been able to spend the money on decent equipment which means we turnover not make a wage .The idea of wfp's are to be able to clean larger ,taller ,awkward properties which probablly cant be done with a ladder and squeegee not bungalows and 2 bedroom houses.



Bit like keeping up with the jone's those who cant allways feel threaten'd and jealous beacause they cant and never will be able to afford what everyone else has and they havent.

This is my opinion oh and i have cleaned windows for 4 years  wfp only and unless i have 700 monthly customers who are all lying when they say that their windows look great well........... best i give up now before i get my next wfp and van on the road

[Sir Squeaky]

My point is, that after years of rolling walls and ceilings with a paint roller some of the blokes i've worked with can barely move their heads now !! they get severe pains and a 'stiff neck' situation where the back of their necks are damaged from years of using the poles. One guy i know can't move his head left or right.

Well that's that then.

I couldn't if I wanted to.
I broke my back and crushed 2 vertebrae 15 years ago, and I've got a problem with injuries to my neck, back, and to some extent shoulders too.

I suffer so easily too......
I'm sat here now not able to look left.
Why? I cuddled my daughter, and click.... :

That was over a week ago. 

[Sir Squeaky]

Only just noticed this gem.....

If you want fast and accurate, look no further than our own Terry (squeegee god) Burrows.
You wouldn't get near him.

On a plain glass window in central london but most people on here live in small towns or villages ? what about leaded? 5 floors up ?

oh i forgot you only do £2 houses all day all year when us who have invested in wfp have been able to spend the money on decent equipment which means we turnover not make a wage
I make plenty of cash mate.
£20-30 three-floor jobs sometimes too.
How wrong could you be?

Bit like keeping up with the jone's those who cant allways feel threaten'd and jealous beacause they cant and never will be able to afford what everyone else has and they havent.
Why would I be jealous?
Because my system is reliable?
Because my method works?
Because I've got less to think about?
Wake up!

This is my opinion oh and i have cleaned windows for 4 years  wfp only and unless i have 700 monthly customers who are all lying when they say that their windows look great well........... best i give up now before i get my next wfp and van on the road
By then they might ban it.
Enjoy
Oh, and 4 years experience?
I bow to your knowledge newbie.

[ronaldo]

Well wheather wfp is slow or fast i dont really care as i was awarded with a nice £1200.00 a month contract yesterday because i use wfp and the last outfit were working off ladders and after an incident last month involving them,  the safetey officer kicked them into touch and opened the door to me.
I have also been asked to do another monthly account worth around £440.00 i am happy and without wfp i wouldnt have got a look in with this work.
Maybe next year i,ll be staying in a caravan when i go on holiday instead of a tent.
 

[Ian_Giles]

Thing that got me with the vid is that:
1. The guy convieniently could park right outside the house.

Reply; This vid is mererly an demonstration of WFP in action! Also I have a great many accounts where access is very easy.

2. It doesn't show him doing the back...does he trail a hose pipe through the house?

Reply; please see the first reply!

3. How does he get at Velux's without ladders?

Reply; Piece of cake, I do several and most of them you couldn't get at with a ladder. You simply extend pole and use a gooseneck, if you can see it, you can clean it.

4. Please don't tell me "pure" water will get baked-on bird poo off completely!

Reply; Er...sorry but, well, yes it does mostly in 2 and a half years I haven't had to resort to ladders to get off bird muck.

5. Presumably the dirty water gathers on the sills...didn't see him wiping those down.
Reply; Sills are a piece of cake, the water is not that dirty on repeat cleans and is washed off the sills easily. Remember, most of the time you are doing repeat work and the sill are going to be clean, so are the frames, you are not going to be flushing loads of dirty water off the windows.)

6. What happens if 1/2 way through the day he runs out of DW or the battery flats?

Reply; That can happen now and again, but if your battery runs flat then you are at fault yourself for not keeping it charged.
A 85 amp battery will power you for up to three days if you keep forgetting to charge it.
I personally charge mine every night.
Running out of water can happen too, particularly for those operating out of the back of a car, but you simply go back home and fill up if need be, most of us operate within a few miles of home.
Yesterday I did a 6 bed house with old fashioned leaded glass...you know the sort...all at different angles...have to be carefull how much pressure applied and YES! then I could see how much a WFP would be beneficial. Also if I were to do low-rise office blocks...yep can see the advantage as well. But away from that for me it's ladders, bucket blade and scrim.

And finally: I'm confident that by the time the guy got that contraption out of his van and set it up etc that I'd have done both those windows and been onto the ground ones.  Also I wouldn't  have the aggro of putting the whole thing away.

Reply; Set up is easily as quick as trad, trad certainly gains over WFP on putting the gear away, but not by much.
You would not have got to that first window before him, and you would not have cleaned it in under a minute let alone 17 seconds (forthe sake of argument lets assume it has been done properly).

Ian

[s.hughes]

Ian, Bet you wish you never started this thread!!

Steve

[abacus]

squeeky
just give it up you are jumping on anything any one says without knowing what your talking about an to be honest not making yourself look that bright you can hardly comment unless you know their medical history I have a back problem partly inherited partly due to working ladders and window fitting my ostiopath agrees that the pole system is better for my back as for my neck it never gets as locked as when I carried ladders all day
its  how you use it if you have a certain problem take steps to avoid compounding it
Ive done both trad and wfp still do some trad but much prefere wfp when you have at least worked with somebody and used the pole system for a week perhaps your thoughts could be taken more seriously

not a dig squeeky just an opinion

regards grant

[Ian_Giles]

Just thought of something concerning WFP...

I used to be a pro decorator working in the construction industy. I worked with a load of blokes who for many years had used a 'roller pole'

I think its a very similar action to the window cleaning, but to be honest the WFP probably puts more strain on the back of your neck and shoulders (this is a guess) due to the heights worked at.

My point is, that after years of rolling walls and ceilings with a paint roller some of the blokes i've worked with can barely move their heads now !! they get severe pains and a 'stiff neck' situation where the back of their necks are damaged from years of using the poles. One guy i know can't move his head left or right.

This isn't a joke of any kind, i think its something you guys should be very careful about.

Carl.

A good point,
I used to be a pro decorator myself, it was what I went in for as an apprentice on my old mans building company, ran my own company for a few years after I finished my training.
Rolling ceilings or artexing them is far more of a strain than using the WFP pole, it is more similar to rolling walls than ceilings.

At the end of the day it is a manual job, and with any manual work there is a risk of injury.
But there are ways of reducing that risk, the angle you work at, swopping arms regularly and so on.

I'm 50 years old, been using WFP day in and day out for 2 and a half years, and so far no sign of injury or overt wear and tear on my aging body.

Only time will tell of course as to whether or not I'll be cream crackered or not as a result of using this system.
But we should all do our best to work in a fashion that will minimize any potential risk...its too late once the damage is done.

Steve,

I guessed what would happen once I popped that link up!

It's got argumentative at times, but there is also a decent thread of debate amonst the many and varied replies!

Ian

[pjulk]

I think this thread is excellent.

Ian has made some good points about water flow.
When i changed over to WFP 19 months ago i used to use 1ltr a minute now i use between 2 and 2 1/2 ltrs a minute like ian 60psi up on full got a varistream didn't like it and for a 60psi pump you don't need it.
Anyway even though my flow rate is a lot higher now than when i first started i use less water per propertie just because i know how to get the finish right and im heck of a lot quicker than when i first started and also as ian has said with a high flow rate the window is always getting rinsed as you work.

Also i have never myself had any neck problems from WFP.
I think you will only get neck problems if you stand to close to the building stand back further its easier to clean anyway and you will have no neck problems.

Paul

[Easyclean Windows]

Oh, and 4 years experience?
I bow to your knowledge newbie.

Like i said you clean windows i run a business

[Sir Squeaky]

Doing what?
Cleaning windows?

I clean windows, and I work for myself.
Oops, that's a business.....

Your point is?

[Ian_Giles]

Squeaks, Easyclean....enough please. You want a direct and personal argument take it somewhere else.

Ian

[Easyclean Windows]

You have stated you bow to my knowledge........im presuming you have a welath of window cleaning experience i would like to know exactlly what you know more about cleaning a piece of glass than i do with only being 4 years window cleaning ?

As all of your posts have stated wfp is c**p and using a squeege is the b all and end all

You are constantly berating other users on this forum and forever putting people down because they use different techniques regarding wfp's than using a ladder and a squeege.

I have looked on the internet and also enquired with the local college's and universities and cannot find any courses on window cleaning as such.Thefore anyone can clean a piece of glass it dosent take a genius to know how to use one and you dont need to be a rocket scientist.

So as you are so keen to be little me regarding my "4 years experience please enlighten me to the knowledge that you posses because i for the life of me cannot see why having 4 years to your years upon years puts you above me or anyone else as being a better window cleaner???

[Sir Squeaky]

You were the one who made out you were "bigger and better"
All I did was pull your head out of your bottom.....

Sorry Ian, but I'm getting put-downs for not using wfp again. :

[Ian_Giles]

Boys, please, I cannot remove posts from a topic I have started, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread.
I can go in and edit your posts, but I really don't want to do that.

Ian

[Peter Fogwill]

Good thread, this is one of the reasons this is one of my favourite forums.

I have read through the post pretty fast, not as fast as I clean window though    I have wanted to reply to most of the posts but will start with one of the earlier ones with regards to my short videos.  These videos show exactly how long it takes to clean glass with a WFP, and the windows were left at the end of the clean spotless.  The windows were last cleaned approx 4 weeks previous to that cleaning.  Had there been any fly or bird mess on the glass it would have been dealt with appropriately, but like Ian has already stated there is never much on the glass from month to month.

Had the glass some birds dirt or fly mess on it then although it may have taken longer you would be lucky if it would have taken 10 seconds longer per window. 

The reason I cleaned the window under the second window I cleaned was to cut out some walking.  I would have had to walk over to the window below the slopping roof, then I would have had to walk back to the one below the second window I cleaned, that would have doubled the distance I had to travel.  Even if I had done it in reverse starting at the second window then the one above the roof then the one below the roof, then the last one I would still be doubling the distance I had to walk.  Not much time granted, but add another couple of task that you could save time on and then multiply that by the amount of houses you clean and you have a significant daily time saving.

Had I rinsed separately, or had there been something on the glass that would have made me use more water  than usual, then I may have cleaned the window under the roof first to allow the other widow to stop dripping on the window below.  But in this case a very minimum amount of water was used causing no problems on the windows below.

As far as the results are concerned the videos were not for this reason.   I think every window cleaner in the UK knows that these systems work, what most ask now is what sort of time saving can they expect.

Peter Fogwill