Ian101

  • Posts: 7887
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2012, 10:13:47 pm »
can you get a jingle like the ice cream van man? this would be cool and all those disappointed kiddies faces come the summer hols ... i can't beleive you didn't think of this before

the gypos around my way use a continious loudspeaker of any old iron may adapt the idea to any dirty windows ,, any dirty windows ..... best stock up on some goldfish and find a ragmans trumpet on ebay. ;) ;D

Ian101

  • Posts: 7887
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2012, 10:16:03 pm »
Mountain out of a molehill, is it really that bad to have to call the odd customer? Its a wonder any of you have any customers left the way you talk about dumping....

yup is a hassle when Ive had a long hard day to have to call ahead customers for next day and then I suspect the reply will be "leave em this time" .... 99% of my customers just expect me to turn up and do job after all its not rocket science or a massive task.

some on here happy to do it I prefer to keep it to a minimum where possible ... but thats me  :)

if it means loosing a customer then never mind another one along soon enough and if not I can go canvassing for 10 minutes and find a replacement.

Ian101

  • Posts: 7887
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2012, 10:26:05 pm »
Just politely manage her expectations:-

I'd say - "I'm sorry your daughter was startled and I understand your family are busy people. So I'm sure you appreciate I'm extremely busy too. If I called all my customers before cleaning I'd be making 20 calls a day!

I hope you don't mind if I call as agreed and ring the doorbell to let you know I'm here?


She may well agree. If she doesn't then is she really the sort of custy you want?

Your decision of course ...


hmmmmmmm with hindsight yup but not as fast as thinking as that this afternoon

Johnny B

  • Posts: 2385
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2012, 11:05:56 pm »
99% of my (250-odd) customers require me to call, knock or at least make an appointment before I can clean their windows. The other 1% I just ring the door bell and start working away.

This is how it works in Ireland. If I failed to heed these requirements, I would not have a business at all. I can't just dump and replace with two here. Finding any customers at all is a serious challenge. Keeping them long enough to get a second clean is an achievement, and getting beyond the third is real success. When you get to this stage, they are keepers as long as you keep them happy. All this is achieved by observing paragraph 1 and going the extra mile for them.   

Yes it gave me some serious headaches at the beginning, and I even began to doubt if I could make it work here (I have well meaning friends here who didn't believe that I stood a chance),  but I have now learned to adapt to what the customers, who pay my wages, require of me, and my determination to succeed is beginning to pay off. If it means acceeding to their wishes within reason, so be it.   

John


 

 
Being diplomatic is being able to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.

Ian101

  • Posts: 7887
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2012, 11:19:50 pm »
99% of my (250-odd) customers require me to call, knock or at least make an appointment before I can clean their windows. The other 1% I just ring the door bell and start working away.

This is how it works in Ireland. If I failed to heed these requirements, I would not have a business at all. I can't just dump and replace with two here. Finding any customers at all is a serious challenge. Keeping them long enough to get a second clean is an achievement, and getting beyond the third is real success. When you get to this stage, they are keepers as long as you keep them happy. All this is achieved by observing paragraph 1 and going the extra mile for them.   

Yes it gave me some serious headaches at the beginning, and I even began to doubt if I could make it work here (I have well meaning friends here who didn't believe that I stood a chance),  but I have now learned to adapt to what the customers, who pay my wages, require of me, and my determination to succeed is beginning to pay off. If it means acceeding to their wishes within reason, so be it.   

John


 

 

well that would be me fooked ................ I admire your perserverance  :)

gary999

  • Posts: 8156
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2012, 11:33:22 pm »
i let all my customers know im coming by either text posting card through doors
etc customer sees it as good customer service i see it as a benefit getting access to
rear etc.

i might get one aweek who comes out with not today  with most its normally a reasonable reason
and i let it slide,if it looks like becoming a habit i dump them

Johnny B

  • Posts: 2385
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2012, 11:35:53 pm »
Thanks Ian.

Was a real culture shock I can tell you. When I had my business in England, it was a simple case or turn up, clean and knock for the money. Very, very few issues in over 14 years.

Over here it just doesn't work that way because regular window cleaning, particularly domestic, is the exception rather than the rule. So I need to make contact with my customers beforehand unless they say otherwise.

John

Being diplomatic is being able to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.

Johnny B

  • Posts: 2385
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2012, 11:38:44 pm »
i let all my customers know im coming by either text posting card through doors
etc customer sees it as good customer service i see it as a benefit getting access to
rear etc.

i might get one aweek who comes out with not today  with most its normally a reasonable reason
and i let it slide,if it looks like becoming a habit i dump them

That card system seems like a good idea. I may give that a try.  :)

John
Being diplomatic is being able to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.

Paul Coleman

Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2012, 06:26:40 am »
Flip the question, if you were the customer would you think it was too much to ask? I wouldnt.... I agree that you guys shouldnt jump through hoops and but the odd phone call is not beyond anyone....
Generally, it's not so much about making the call.  It can be about the scheduling i.e. it's not always possible to be certain how far you will get in a day (should I phone this evening for the following day or should I leave it till tomorrow evening for the day after?).  However, this one sounds like they could be phoned say 20 minutes beforehand and it would be enough.  With mobile phones, doing it isn't a problem.  Remembering to do it might be though (for me anyway).
There is also the line of thinking that goes, "If all my customers wanted me to do xyz, would my business be workable?"
I imagine the real issue here might be a power/control/ego thing - though I could be projecting my own issues onto someone else's situation.
I know that I was messed about so much by customers in the early years, it was many years before I took on any more jobs where I had to phone beforehand.  This started before mobile phones were in common usage around and just became a habit.  I got a mobile later than most people.  I don't get messed around much these days but nearly all of it is when I am expected to phone ahead.
I can see why some companies will only do commercial work.  There is much less micro-management needed in general.

Paul Coleman

Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2012, 06:45:41 am »
have we created our own problems ???
many years ago window cleaners would just call and do the job
now i do appreciate that times have moved on and we need to adapt or die,technology as played a big part in this,ie texting but in our quest to be different from other windies are we not just compounding the situation and giving more power to the customer
this is a devils advocate question :P


Any business is customer led, I think too many on here forget that and think they are in charge. No customers equals no business...

If someone came in and offered a more customer led experience then the customers would follow....

I have said for a long time that sooner or later someone will set up a "super" company in the domestic market that competes on price and customer service and totally change the industry....

Customer led, yes.
However, most window cleaning companies are quite small or one person businesses.  If too many customers require a tight price AND high maintenance levels of customer service, that directly affects an individual's income.  In a larger company that can be absorbed more easily.

I once had a customer whose list of "rules" gradually evolved into the following (this is not a joke - it actually happened).

1.  Only allowed to clean when someone is at home - in spite of access being fine.
2.  Had to be the first job of the day to ensure they were in (they refused to give out their phone number).
3.  Had to knock on door before starting.
4.  Had to knock on the door in a manner that did not wake her husband (even though it might have been 9 AM).
5  Had to knock on the door in a manner that didn't start the dogs barking as this would wake her husband.
6  Had to be within two or three days of the appointed day.
7  Had to not work if it was a bit cloudy.
(6 and 7 can work against each other.  I can be on time if I work in adverse conditions but otherwise, I can be very late).

In the end, I stood at her door and tried to explain why her list of rules (I politely called them "requirements") meant that I could no longer provide her with the service.  I also told her that if even a small percentage had such requirements, my business would be  unworkable.
Even then, she still didn't get it.
That customer was a watershed because I vowed never to take on another customer unless it was turn up and clean.  I have relented a bit from that in more recent years but to this day, I bet no more than 15 out of 300 get a call first.

Ian101

  • Posts: 7887
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2012, 08:19:33 am »
Flip the question, if you were the customer would you think it was too much to ask? I wouldnt.... I agree that you guys shouldnt jump through hoops and but the odd phone call is not beyond anyone....
Generally, it's not so much about making the call.  It can be about the scheduling i.e. it's not always possible to be certain how far you will get in a day (should I phone this evening for the following day or should I leave it till tomorrow evening for the day after?).  However, this one sounds like they could be phoned say 20 minutes beforehand and it would be enough.  With mobile phones, doing it isn't a problem.  Remembering to do it might be though (for me anyway).
There is also the line of thinking that goes, "If all my customers wanted me to do xyz, would my business be workable?"
I imagine the real issue here might be a power/control/ego thing - though I could be projecting my own issues onto someone else's situation.
I know that I was messed about so much by customers in the early years, it was many years before I took on any more jobs where I had to phone beforehand.  This started before mobile phones were in common usage around and just became a habit.  I got a mobile later than most people.  I don't get messed around much these days but nearly all of it is when I am expected to phone ahead.
I can see why some companies will only do commercial work.  There is much less micro-management needed in general.

Take on board the ego thing but its not ... not from my side anyway ... quite like the idea of customers thinking of me as just the window cleaner .... just prefer simple life ... turn up ... clean ... get paid ... I think she peed me off a little with the BS reasons of world war 3 on the bathroom window because as we all know with wfp and bathroom windows they get a quick brush and quick rinse .... I just know / suspected I was getting set up for a "oh we will leave it this time because the dog is having its birthday party in the garden type of excuse and would prefer them just to say were skint can we leave it this time or change to every 3 months and reprice accordingly.

Ian101

  • Posts: 7887
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2012, 08:20:29 am »
have we created our own problems ???
many years ago window cleaners would just call and do the job
now i do appreciate that times have moved on and we need to adapt or die,technology as played a big part in this,ie texting but in our quest to be different from other windies are we not just compounding the situation and giving more power to the customer
this is a devils advocate question :P


Any business is customer led, I think too many on here forget that and think they are in charge. No customers equals no business...

If someone came in and offered a more customer led experience then the customers would follow....

I have said for a long time that sooner or later someone will set up a "super" company in the domestic market that competes on price and customer service and totally change the industry....

Customer led, yes.
However, most window cleaning companies are quite small or one person businesses.  If too many customers require a tight price AND high maintenance levels of customer service, that directly affects an individual's income.  In a larger company that can be absorbed more easily.

I once had a customer whose list of "rules" gradually evolved into the following (this is not a joke - it actually happened).

1.  Only allowed to clean when someone is at home - in spite of access being fine.
2.  Had to be the first job of the day to ensure they were in (they refused to give out their phone number).
3.  Had to knock on door before starting.
4.  Had to knock on the door in a manner that did not wake her husband (even though it might have been 9 AM).
5  Had to knock on the door in a manner that didn't start the dogs barking as this would wake her husband.
6  Had to be within two or three days of the appointed day.
7  Had to not work if it was a bit cloudy.
(6 and 7 can work against each other.  I can be on time if I work in adverse conditions but otherwise, I can be very late).

In the end, I stood at her door and tried to explain why her list of rules (I politely called them "requirements") meant that I could no longer provide her with the service.  I also told her that if even a small percentage had such requirements, my business would be  unworkable.
Even then, she still didn't get it.
That customer was a watershed because I vowed never to take on another customer unless it was turn up and clean.  I have relented a bit from that in more recent years but to this day, I bet no more than 15 out of 300 get a call first.


 ;D I rekon eventually we all have our "watershed" moment

GDwindowcleaning

  • Posts: 1049
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2012, 09:46:02 am »
have we created our own problems ???
many years ago window cleaners would just call and do the job
now i do appreciate that times have moved on and we need to adapt or die,technology as played a big part in this,ie texting but in our quest to be different from other windies are we not just compounding the situation and giving more power to the customer
this is a devils advocate question :P


Any business is customer led, I think too many on here forget that and think they are in charge. No customers equals no business...

If someone came in and offered a more customer led experience then the customers would follow....

I have said for a long time that sooner or later someone will set up a "super" company in the domestic market that competes on price and customer service and totally change the industry....

Customer led, yes.
However, most window cleaning companies are quite small or one person businesses.  If too many customers require a tight price AND high maintenance levels of customer service, that directly affects an individual's income.  In a larger company that can be absorbed more easily.

I once had a customer whose list of "rules" gradually evolved into the following (this is not a joke - it actually happened).

1.  Only allowed to clean when someone is at home - in spite of access being fine.
2.  Had to be the first job of the day to ensure they were in (they refused to give out their phone number).
3.  Had to knock on door before starting.
4.  Had to knock on the door in a manner that did not wake her husband (even though it might have been 9 AM).
5  Had to knock on the door in a manner that didn't start the dogs barking as this would wake her husband.
6  Had to be within two or three days of the appointed day.
7  Had to not work if it was a bit cloudy.
(6 and 7 can work against each other.  I can be on time if I work in adverse conditions but otherwise, I can be very late).

In the end, I stood at her door and tried to explain why her list of rules (I politely called them "requirements") meant that I could no longer provide her with the service.  I also told her that if even a small percentage had such requirements, my business would be  unworkable.
Even then, she still didn't get it.
That customer was a watershed because I vowed never to take on another customer unless it was turn up and clean.  I have relented a bit from that in more recent years but to this day, I bet no more than 15 out of 300 get a call first.

Hi Paul,

I have said back in the thread that no one should jump through hoops and I will stand by that, however calling the odd customer shouldnt be a problem.

You should also never prejudge any situation and dump a customer just because they might do something in the future, it feels like the situation where I used to dump girlfriends before they dumped me lol  its like everyone gets a thrill from dumping a customer, it doesnt give you any power you just end up with less customers....

A & J Owen Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 2192
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2012, 10:20:24 am »
I would call next time and if she says 'not this time', then I would get rid then. At least then you've given her a chance.
I would say it's 50/50 whether she will or not. Reason given for ringing sounds a bit rubbish to me......

Dominic Carnell

  • Posts: 69
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2012, 11:57:14 am »
If they're busy people and you agree to call then they might not even be at home when you do. Then what? Keep calling - no, dump!

George P

  • Posts: 1304
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2012, 12:14:46 pm »
If they're busy people and you agree to call then they might not even be at home when you do. Then what? Keep calling - no, dump!

if you get mobile then you could call that,

C o z y

  • Posts: 7775
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2012, 12:15:56 pm »
We all live in different areas surrounded by 1000's if not 1,000,000's of people who want/need a window cleaner. Most of us have managed to put a half decent amount bof customers into our rounds/businesses. If we've managed to do that, then why is it a problem to get enough customers to make ANY micro-management a waste of time and effort.
A lot of people get into this "simple" business because it's "simple". Lifestyle is "easy going" and money is "good".
Why start moving to fit ANY customer who wants you to jump through hoops? I don't mean dump them, I mean just put another batch of new customers into the business. If you want to stay compact and have a "kingdom" where the competition would find it hard to encroach, then maybe it's slightly different.
Someone once said on here that it's easier to find customers than it is to find a good window cleaner. I stopped trying "too hard" when my customer base reached the size I wanted.
There're good points on most of the posts about this, but that's just my way of looking at my customers "demands".
No still don't understand, I must be thick

GDwindowcleaning

  • Posts: 1049
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2012, 01:11:22 pm »
You should never stop trying hard in business, its attitudes like that that gives the whole industry a bad name. I have picked up hundreds of customers from window cleaners with attitude... Customers dont like them....


attitude and self importance are not nice personal traits....

C o z y

  • Posts: 7775
Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2012, 01:23:18 pm »
Yes, that's correct. There are a lot of customers dropped by a window cleaner or cleaners. Then they get the next window cleaner etc until one of the new window cleaners puts up with their "demands".

These are usually window cleaners who haven't got as many customers as they woud like or need, so they go the "extra mile" to provide a good service. While they're providing this "good service" for that customer, they haven't got time to find two other customers that are happy with what all the others are happy with. So they end up spending time with one "special" customer instead of two other customers.

Some think this is good. I know which I prefer, but I learned from a guy who had a huge round of domestics, and that's what I follow. Works for me.

1% of this business is technical, the rest is common sense. I find keeping it simple works best. I stopped trying to please all the people all the time.

It's all down to attitude I suppose. You're right GD, but not right enough for my way of looking at it. So I'll stick to my way of looking at things. If a customer starts dictating how a simple system works and effects my system of working, I need to get more customers and stop faffing around the "special" ones.
No still don't understand, I must be thick

roundbuilder

Re: Can you call before you come next time
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2012, 04:00:53 pm »
What is so bad on letting customers know your going to turn up. I ring mine the day before to let them know and sort out where they can leave the cash. If no answer i text and ask if they can leave payment in a envelope in back garden by door. All my custies respect this and makes my life a lot easier as minimal custies owe.