Carpet Cleaning Issues - Carpet construction, upholstery cleaning, stain removal, equipment, events, etc.

Do powders cause more problems than liquids?
Posted by Mike_Boxall (Mike_Boxall), 15 December 2003
One of the other topics touched on replacing pumps and I'd be interested to see if we can find out if powder users have more pump problems than liquid users.

The argument is that, unless you flush out your machine with fresh water after use, if the machine is left with solution in the pump then the powder congeals resulting in premature failure.

I have to say that in our experience those that have continuing pump problems are usually those that use powders.

What do others here think?

Posted by MB (Mark Betts), 15 December 2003

You could have point there.

Often when using powders there is sometimes some left in the bottom of the tank.

However I have found that its not pumps that go down often its the vac motors which obviously has nothing to do with the powders used unless it is very foamy.

I prefer using powders because they are more economical and i tend to mix up in the bucket before tipping into the tank. Also on accoasions when mixing up pre spray from a liquid it can sometimes get messy with spills etc.



Posted by Mike_Boxall (Mike_Boxall), 15 December 2003
This is the time of year that most problems seem to occur i.e. the colder it gets the more likely it is that the powder solidifies.

I'm sure there are very few carpet cleaners who rinse the machine after use (that is through the pump not just the waste tank - I'm sure you must all do that!!!)


Posted by MB (Mark Betts), 15 December 2003

Wouldnt the problem still occur with using liquids though?

I was thinking of the solution sitting in the pump whether it be from powder or liquid and congelaing (sp) haha over time in the pump.

I must admit I have never thought of rinsing my pump out with fresh water after a job!!!  Embarassed Embarassed so thank for that I will do it from now on.

Regarding vacs , what i do when completeing a job and i have emptied out the waste tank etc is that i open the waste tank lid and leave the motors running whilst i pack the rest of the bits and bobs away. This dries the motors out before putting the machine away because i am sure the moisture left in the motors after a job contributes to their premature faliure.



Posted by Mike_Boxall (Mike_Boxall), 15 December 2003
Good point about running the vac motors Mark.

With regard to liquids, they dont seem to seperate like powders do so I don't think there is the same problem.

I heard that one company used to invalidate the machine warranty if powders were used but not rinsed through properly!

Posted by Glynn (Glynn), 15 December 2003
This is waht I like about HMs HD, it dissolves completely even in cold water ! and cleans loke a dream.

Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 16 December 2003

What an excellent post ...My two pennies worth...

For many years I tended to use powders for the reasons of economics and carriage. These powders were in the form of Pre-sprays only and I always rinsed with a liquid acidic rinse agent.
I suppose one could say that any residual acidic solution left within the pump could have a corrosive effect, although it did have a descaling quality.

Using liquid Microsplitters (acidic version) with a plain water rinse hopefully will resolve those problems although I still have to see if our local hard water takes its toll

Posted by mike_halliday (mike_halliday), 16 December 2003
My two pennies worth, we are talking about a product that we leave on customers carpets, and we are using words like congeal Shocked

Arn't these chemicals soposed to be non-residual?. Concidering they are mixed at 15g per 15 lts if the water did evaporate leaving the powder in the pump it would be about a pinhead full.

I've seen pre-sprays congeal when left in electric sprayers, but they are mixed at 20-1.

If pumps are getting clogged its more likely to be carpet cleaners not rincing out their buckets before filling their machines Wink

Posted by Kinver_Clean (Kinver_Clean), 16 December 2003
Hi folks
I have found after many years delving in the guts of machines that some cleaning solutions are much harder on pumps than products, powder or liquid. The least problems appear to be from the manufacturers own rather than something from elsewhere. One product in paticular ripped the diapragm and vaves to bits in no time. I have not seen it on the market for a while now thank goodness- it also dissolved brass!
I dont think liquid or powder makes much difference as the pump intakes are off the bottom of the tank anyway. The best thing is to suck the residue out to rinse the waste tank after each job, getting rid of anything in both tanks. I find a lot of waste tanks have half an inch of stinking sediment in - that cannot be good for you or the next customer.

Posted by Cloverleaf (Cloverleaf), 16 December 2003
I have just replaced a vac motor on my Ninja.

I think the reason it went is because the pump had been leaking, much condensation inside the unit.

I removed the pump head from the body, opened up the head and carefully sealed the flange with sealant, now working a treat with no leaks.

Having changed to using powders from Chemspec 'formula 90' 9 months ago, I was concerned that there might be a build up in the pump but it was absolutly spotless inside.

I also cleaned the filters on the wand and found just the usual bits and fluff, no scum from powders.

Posted by Ivar_Haglund (Ivar_Haglund), 16 December 2003
Are you talking pump problems in portabes or truck mount

I seem to have no problems with powders

I pre mix with very hot water

Now it is just the same as using a liquid

Is the water your using very hard

the water your using my be more of a problem than the chemicals used.

IVAR Shocked Shocked Shocked

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