Posted by Karl_Nilchibar (Karl_Nilchibar), 28 January 2004
In an earlier posting a Contributor has insinuated that a court case exists which undeniably documents the fact that the “Solution products” are identical to those of One Step®. I suspect if such a court case/court judgment existed, it would beyond a doubt support and document (naturally with supportive laboratory tests ascertaining that the formulations are identical as well as the cleaning integrities of the respective products) the insinuation made! Please do step forward and provide proof of such (Which court, court case file number, laboratory test results, etc.).As everyone in the industry knows (maybe with the exception of the contributor!), Mr. Ed Crawford entered into a Licensing Agreement with Solution Glöckner GmbH towards the beginning of 1998 for the exclusive sales rights of the One Step® products in Europe. Mr. Crawford sent Solution Glöckner GmbH the raw materials required for producing these. The last shipment of raw materials was shipped to Solution Glöckner GmbH in the beginning of 2000. In November 2000, Mr. Crawford was forced to terminally cancel this Agreement with Solution Glöckner GmbH, this without rebut.
In December 2000, Solution Glöckner GmbH did national advertising in the major trade magazines in Germany claiming that there was a name change from One Step® to Solution® with the insinuation that there was only a name change and that One Step® products/formulas would be sold as Solution® in the future. Solution Glöckner GmbH was served with a cease and decease from the following court in Germany.
(Landgericht – 1. Zivilkammer, Limburg a.d. Lahn, Germany Case # 1 O 617/00).
It seems that many companies were mislead by this information. A distribution company in Germany purchased Solution® product from Solution Glöckner GmbH believing they were receiving One Step® product under a different name. As this was/is not the case, the company sued Solution for damages and won the case. It is clearly documented in this case that the accused did not deliver the so called “One Step®” products with a name change, but that in the case of products labeled “Solution®” that these are a different cleaning product.
(Amtsgericht Ludwigshafen am Rhein, Luwigshafen am Rhein, Germany Case # 2 a C 156/01).
Different companies have tried to ride the coat tail of success the One Step® products have brought to the market. Some will, and have tried nearly everything, to either copy cat or put down the One Step® products in some fashion or form. Solution Glöckner GmbH was charged with fraud for selling product that was labeled One Step® but did not contain such. This happened during the time period Solution Glöckner GmbH had sales rights in Europe of the One Step® products. The district attorney seized files of Solution Glöckner GmbH and based on evidence it found were going to press charges. Solution Glöckner GmbH was offered “to pay a fine or face charges”. Solution Glöckner GmbH paid a fine and the charges were dropped. (Staatsanwaltschaft Kaiserslautern, Kaiserslautern, Germany, Case # HR 151/00 B)
“Copies of these court case cases can be requested respectively through the courts”.
It was further insinuated that the products are identical by “specific gravity”, etc. If they were identical, for example, then their applications/dilutions would be identical too. My challenge to those who claim Solution Products have a better dilution ratio is to conduct a test by mixing both products “Say at the ratio of: 20:1, or even higher!!” and test the integrity and performance of both products side by side. The results will speak for themselves!!
In regard to the term “Micro-Splitting”, this is actually synonymous with One Step® products. One Step® products revolutionized the cleaning industry in Europe. The One Step® “Micro-Splitting” cleaning technology was the first to be recognized and instrumented “detergent, enzyme and solvent-free” cleaning system in many countries in Europe. Trade Associations and schools in Germany which cater to janitorial and facility up keep, for example, teach and educate their students about the use of “Micro-Splitting” products as well as detergents, enzymes, etc. I hope that in the near future training schools in the UK will adopt a similar policy. Solution may use this term as a “marketing tag” on their labels by there own admission however, this is certainly not the case with “One Step® Products”.
Karl Nilchibar
Posted by stevegunn (Steve Gunn), 28 January 2004
Obviously the introduction of Solution has affected someones sales figures
Posted by MB (Mark Betts), 28 January 2004
hahahahah someone dont like competition.Basically if it works , use it.
Posted by Scots_cleaner (Scots_cleaner), 28 January 2004
Looks like i will stick to prochem!Posted by MB (Mark Betts), 28 January 2004
Look at it this way.A lot of guys on this forum have used One Step for as long time.
Now along comes an equivalent product that does the same job (CLEANS CARPETS AND RINSES OUT WITH FRESHWATER) but is far far cheaper!!!
Which one are ya gonna buy
Posted by Phil_@_Deep_Clean (Phil_@_Deep_Clean), 28 January 2004
I would like to know the true difference between the two products, as one is much cheaper than the other.
One Step has increased as much as 25% just lately, maybe they should look at that "if" sales are down rather than complain about competitors.
What annoyes me is the way some companies use these boards as some sort of free advertising campaign for their products, you never see Prochem, Chemspec Hydramaster etc employes using these sites for their Company benefit, they let the individuals who use their products make judgements and say where they can be obtained.
Perhaps one post may have rattled the One Step cage, but the fact is that these boards have given One Step huge coverage and free advertising.
Phil
Posted by Shaun_Ashmore (Shaun_Ashmore), 28 January 2004
time will tell who lasts the longest, may be who markets their product the best. Like most things in life if you take your foot off the gas you will eventually stop!!Shaun( a not very happy cc as I have had to cancel a job because of the snow )
Posted by strakercleaning (strakercleaning), 28 January 2004
By coincidence
I used my first Solutions chemicals today. I cleaned 80/20 sandy coloured H/S/L and 4 rooms, same as i have done at the same address for the last 3 years running. This being my 4 th annual visit, I assumed the carpets would be med/light soiled as per usual. I never reckoned on a 10 month old baby Thus the carpets were slightly worse than last year and there was 2 inches of snow on the ground at the time.My point is that the job took 20% less time to carry out and the first 2 rooms were about dry before i started the H/S/L. I have been back only 1 and half hours and already the client has called to praise the DRY results.
Solutions has made my day quicker, easier, cheaper and more productive as first visitor to the house today has already arranged an estimate in Wimbledon ( big houses )
COINCIDENCE.........I DON'T THINK SO!!!!Posted by stevegunn (Steve Gunn), 28 January 2004
Similar to strakercleaning done a nursing home this morning have done for the last three years.The owner has just been on the phone saying how pleased he is with the job as he thought he was going to have to replace the carpet I used Solution for the first time on this carpet.I know from now on which chemical i'll be using.Posted by chris_rushton (Chris_R), 28 January 2004
To Chris Straker.Did you use the One Step product on your last visit to that house? Not clear in your posting- if so then its a good comparison.
Posted by strakercleaning (strakercleaning), 28 January 2004
Always used Prochem so new to microsplitters.
Making the point that Solutions chemical did a better job in less time. I also notice the cost difference against One-Step when looking at new chemicals.
I only have A level Maths and never sat the exam in ROCKET SCIENCE Looking for new ways to improve results, job time and budget so it seemed the OBVIOUS choice to me........
Posted by Glynn (Glynn), 28 January 2004
Its not that important wether he used one-step last time or not in order to achieve a comparison. If you clean a carpet say last year, and then return the next year for example and this time you use a new product and the results are better than before and its drier etc its not neccessarily the new chem ,but could be due to the fact that more residue from previous cleans (ie years of it) has been removed, no one product can remove all traces of previous residues unless its a defoamer etc.It is removed in stages(cleans) otherwise you would have to wet it up too much in order to achieve the rinsing required.I have used One Step for some time now and am reasonably happy with it, I now also have Solutions products, and I must say it does seem more "concentrated", obviously I cant say for sure and it is cheaper, but price isn't everything. If one product is £10 a gall and the next is £15, its not going to make a huge difference in operational costs considering the dilution rates etc.
Glynn
Posted by rob_s (rob_s), 28 January 2004
HiWhere is Easy step in all this.
rob-s
Posted by strakercleaning (strakercleaning), 28 January 2004
Only RESIDUE from last 3 years of cleaning would be Prochem Fibre & Fabric Rinse and 3M Scothgard.I forgot to add, that this year the carpet does not to be re- Scotchgarded as clean water rinse does not diminish the protection
And to the last point that £5 a gallon will not make much difference to your budget.......TRUE
but if you use 100 gallons a year (=£500) and budgeting is about getting the best product for the best price. My local pub sells me a pint of Stella for £2.50 but if i walk for 10 mins more............Wetherspoons do it for £1.99.........am i right or wrong to waste 10 minutes walking. ( 8 times .56p = £4.48 = 2 more pints with 50p change)
sums is sumsPosted by woodman (woodman), 28 January 2004
Hi GuysI think Karl is entitled to his right of reply if someone (I didn't see it) made an accusation or otherwise that he doesn't agree with.
At the end of the day it's up to us which of the solutions we buy and use and postings on this forum has recommended both.
Here's a challenge to both suppliers, how about a discount to Cleanitup members as know doubt we have supplied both of you with plenty of new business over the past few months, a little something in return would not go amiss
Posted by strakercleaning (strakercleaning), 28 January 2004
I AGREEMaybe we should all post up which brand we use ... then the other brand could send out a free sample.
We could all make an educated desicion then, based on experience rather than guesswork
Posted by mike_halliday (mike_halliday), 28 January 2004
none of us are in a position to comment on the comparison betreen Solution & One-step.Its not as easy as saying "last time it cleaned in 20mins using One-step and this time it cleaned in 10mins using Solutions, so Solution must be better".
or
Solution seems more concentrated.
Why not invite the representivtives of both companies to come along to the sunny day out and we can put them side by side to do a real test.
as for One step being worried about the competition, if what they say is true, they are just rightfully protecting their name. what would you do if a new carpet cleaner started near you and started telling lies about your company
mike
Posted by Glynn (Glynn), 28 January 2004
Mike one of them IS coming to the sunny day out!Posted by strakercleaning (strakercleaning), 28 January 2004
Comparisons were between microsplitters this clean and traditional Prochem chemicals used in the pastI have never used both products ( Solutions/One Step)
so i am not in a position to compare results. BUT i am in a position to convey my impression of the results i have had, the service that i got, the reaction of a client of 4 years and the price at which i purchased.
None of the above is supposition, rumour, slander, liable or spite
I have no axe to grind and FREE SPEECH SHOULD COST NOTHING.Chris Straker
Posted by stevegunn (Steve Gunn), 28 January 2004
Mike are you saying one of the companies in question are telling liesPosted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 28 January 2004
Steve,You wrote that you cleaned a nursing home this morning.
Since I started useing 'Solutions' for most carpets/all upholstery, I have stuck to more traditional products for treatment of heavily urine-contaminated carpets (flood with B153, extract with B109 + odour neutraliser)
I would be interested to hear how the micro-splitter performed in these curcumstances and what other chemicals you used in association.
John.
Posted by stevegunn (Steve Gunn), 28 January 2004
JohnIt was the main lounge I cleaned the stains were mainly tea & coffee.
Pre vac with host freestyle
pre sprayed Solution no2
agitated with host machine
rinsed with fresh water
i did use a little host smoke x to remove any smells
the stains disappeared as i agitated with the host machine there were no nasties to get rid of.I would be interested to know how it would have performed on urine stains aswell but no doubt that will come.
Posted by Shaun_Ashmore (Shaun_Ashmore), 28 January 2004
I've posted on this board about how delighted I am with Solutions but when the hullabalu quietens and they eventually go Vat registered and the 30% discount then comes to an end how many people will remain loyal to the brand?I personally think if they were the same price I would buy solutions as it seems to be easier to buy and it's one telephone call 'Hello sir, what would you like and how many do you want and we can deliver it tommorrow' - I like this kind of service
But Solutions have got a premium rate telephone number for sales! so come on lads make it a normal one like your competitors.
Shaun
Posted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 28 January 2004
Thanks Steve,The problem with experimenting in 'Urineland' is that therest homes always seem to add extra work over and above the booking, so there simply is not the time to risk having to re-clean a room if a new approach does not perform as well.
If I do get round to doing a test I'll post the results.
John.
Posted by Ken_Wainwright (Ken Wainwright), 28 January 2004
Firstly, I would like to repeat what I stated in an earlier post when the topic of One Step/ Solutions first arose. I have been using One Step and One Step Fineline for more than 2 years now. The products have consistantly performed to my highest expectations. The service and technical support I have received from Amtech UK, their distributors and in particular Steve Carpenter has been superb.Recently, One Step has had a significant price increase. I can't say I was overjoyed, but you have to expect this sort of thing. Prior to this occasion, One Step had been decreasing in price for what seemed year after year. You can't have it both ways.
As a businessman, I feel that I offer my customers a high quality service (not just the cleaning, but the overall package). Even though my prices have increased every 2 years, it is reasonable to expect the majority of my customers will remain loyal, even if there are cheaper options available. I would expect that most contributors to this board would expect the same to apply to themselves. I would therefor raise the question: Is it right to operate double standards? You would like your customers to remain loyal, even after a price increase, so why not in the opposite direction with your suppliers?
From the posts I have seen on this and other forums, I gather that Solutions operate out of Cornwall, but have no distributors. Would it be reasonable of me to presume that in the Solutions business plan, the appointment of distributors is a short term goal? This would surely mean a price increase through these outlets in order to provide a reasonable profit. I can't imagine that these potential distributors would be happy if the UK distributor was retailing to the nation at a significantly lower price. So, according to my (sometimes fallable) logic, a price increase would be on the cards.
I have to admit that I have not yet used products from Solutions. From what I read they are cleaning well. However, it would be interesting to hear from others about residues. Recently I have spoken with two well respected colleagues who have tried Solutions but reverted back to One Step. The one cleaner had carried out the traditional residue test ie. left some mixed solution in a saucer to evaporate. The results he told me was that the Solutions brand was turning lightly sticky as it dried whereas the One Step brand just crystalised. Upon completion of drying, both brands were crystalised. Has anybody else out there carried out this test and achieved the same results? Obviously, if I were to use this alternative brand to One Step, this is one of the things I would need to do to satisfy myself.
Safe and happy cleaning
Ken
Posted by Phil_@_Deep_Clean (Phil_@_Deep_Clean), 28 January 2004
Hi Ken,I do agree with you with regards to price increases, but 25% to me seems to be just greed, I doubt very much you would increase your prices at those levels.
I managed to buy a big bulk lot of One Step just before the price increase had chance to take effect and paid £60.00 + VAT per 4 X 5L case, now Iam asked to pay £85.00 + VAT.
If I were to increase prices at that level I would be in danger of losing customers.
I also agree that Solutions will I expect hike their price up once they have reeled enough customers in, its what Insurance companies and business like NTL do.
Phil
Posted by Shaun_Ashmore (Shaun_Ashmore), 28 January 2004
I got bored reading Kens post but I did skip through it and found the exact reverse of 'residues' I broached this subject with another cleaner who used easistep as he thought that the 2 different micro splitting agents he was using left a small white scum when he rubbed his fingers.Everyone will have a favourite or as I have posted before will remain loyal to their brand,but if they are very very very simular
they should perform in the correct way.Thanks to another solutions user the normal telelphone number without LINDA LUST premium rate line is
01726 852880 this is normal rate!!!
By the way if Gunther is watching 5 - 1
Shaun
Posted by allencarpetclean (allencarpetclean), 28 January 2004
All this talk of solution & one step we havnt heard from you" NICK SOLUTION" recently1 you were very helpfull last week by the way.Posted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 28 January 2004
Yes Kens' posts do sometimes appear verbose, however if someone takes the time to expand beyond the laconic, and they are making sense, I feel obliged to grant the courtessy of taking the time to read thoroughly - even if I do not fully agree with the content.(I very often do agree)
Like Shaun, I found the residue test results to be opposed to those cited by Ken. If I had some One-step left I would repeat the test.
I use Solutions Nr. 2 & 4 extensively now and am very happy with their peformance. If One-step performed better, regardless of price (within reason), that would be the product of choice.
As to Karls' comments - I have heard, from trusted sorces, things which contradict SOME of them and confirm others but since I do not have access to full information I prefer not to scrap over the matter.
However, the words "Own goal" come to mind as this thread expands.
John.
PS. Shaun - The non-premium number has appeared on all Solutions paperwork I have seen.
Posted by Shaun_Ashmore (Shaun_Ashmore), 28 January 2004
Who's this Linda Lust I keep getting?Shaun
Posted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 28 January 2004
Shaun,Whip me with a scented bootlace and I'll tell you
John.
Posted by Shaun_Ashmore (Shaun_Ashmore), 28 January 2004
I've only got liquorice ones left!Shaun
Posted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 28 January 2004
They'll give you agood run for your moneyJohn.
Posted by Shaun_Ashmore (Shaun_Ashmore), 28 January 2004
If the bottoms dropping out of your life eat some liquorice and your life will drop out of your bottomShaun
Posted by Dave_Parry (Dave Parry), 28 January 2004
Settle down boys!! Karl is right and justified in putting his point of view. Wether people believe it is up to them to decide. Its called freedom of speech. With regards to which is best, I agree that it is very difficult for a cleaner to truely compare results. All you can be is objective and give an opinion. Even the same carpet will differ in the amount and type of soiling from one clean to the next. But at the end of the day if the product you use seems to give better results or is easier to use and is cost effective, then that product obviously suits YOUR method of working. Also Chris is not comparing one step with solutions just his Prochem chemicals.Posted by Lee (Lee), 28 January 2004
Just wondering..... how many of you guys that are bickering are using Truckmount systemsI tried one step and found it to be very slow with limited results in comparison to many other detergent based chemicals, such as, Hydradri, Doubleclean and liquid 90.
Just wondering??
Posted by rob_s (rob_s), 28 January 2004
Try Easi-step then draw your conclusionsRegards
rob-s
Posted by Lee (Lee), 28 January 2004
Just wondered how many of you bickering guys are running truckmounts?I tried one step and put it against the best of the rest in our field; ie High Heat, Carpet Clean XL, Hydradri and Double Clean. I found that One step was slow and inferior to them.
Posted by Lee (Lee), 28 January 2004
appololes for double post.Posted by Lee (Lee), 28 January 2004
Easy step is again just not coparable, have you ever pre spraed and the just extracted with water in a Night Club?Posted by Dave_Parry (Dave Parry), 28 January 2004
How about apologies for the appololesPosted by Lee (Lee), 28 January 2004
add a y...... too much wine!Posted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 28 January 2004
Dave,I dissagree with nothing in your post but would make two points:
None of the subsequent posts have sugested that Karl should not have exercised his freedom of speech.
Nick, I suspect, has refrained from entering the fray to avoid what would be a pointless arguement - we will, as you sugest, make or own determinations as to the merits of the products we use. Any issues raised by karl in his innitial post will be settled (or not) elsewhere.
John.
Posted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 29 January 2004
on 01/28/04 at 23:17:22, Lee wrote:
|
Yes Lee,
A couple of years ago I was cleaning a large, very dirty nightclub with two portables, two opperators and two 'bucket boys'.
The carpet had been pre-sprayed with an enzyme product and I thought I had extracted a large section of carpet with Liquid woolsafe. At the end of the section I signaled the 'bucket boy' to switch off, drain & refill, when I noticed the full measuring jug next to the machine. When questioned the lad admitted that this was the woolsafe that should have been added to the last tankfull of water. The manager of the club was standing behind me
He picked up the tripod floodlamp and walked the length of the section, inspecting the carpet carefully.
When he returned I said that of course I would re-clean that section, Which he declined, saying that the carpet looked "like new, appart from the cigarette burns".
I did use Woolsafe for the rest of the job.
John.
Posted by John_Russel (John_Russel), 29 January 2004
Hi Guys!Maybe I am just a really stupid carpet cleaner, but what I have read today makes the hair on my back side cringe.
I have for years, always been looking for better, quicker and safer products, just as many of you have. I have spent enough on “product research” (love that title) for all of us to take off to the Bahamas tomorrow, bought cheap, bought special “sales” products and I can offer you SUPER deals (on the stuff I still have growing mold in my garage, PS It’s for free!! You pay freight..Ha)…I’ve been bit for that too. I was exposed to the One Step products through the Clean Talk web. I have been using it since. It costs more than some other products, but I guess price is a matter of calculation.
I use 5 oz. per gallon of water for pre-spray = even after import, less than $ 0.008 per sq. ft. material costs for the carpet I clean. That’s a 1:25 dilution ratio. No, I did not follow what was on the label, I did my own tests. Hello!!! Even in nightmare situations (bars, clubs) at 10 oz. with a little brush agitation I’m still less than $ 0.016 per sq. ft. Not bad when the customer is willing to pay $ 0.25 per sq. ft. or more for great restoration cleaning results!!! I am disappointed to read the comments from some that the One Step products are worried about sales. I can not imagine why
I have not read any “professional” comparison comments yet One Step/Solution at this time. As far as the comments and comparisons from you other guys to the other products, well, “Are YOU willing to expose your customers, yourself or your staff to “cheap stuff” (has nothing to do with the Solution), volatile organic compounds, enzymes, etc” just to save your costs? I have samples of the Solution on the way to me. I will test and comment.
I think it would do this forum justice to have respectable Gentlemen such as Derek and Ken to do a “button to button” test at your “the day out” for example. I’ll be there if someone pays the ticket. I’ll even bring a case of Bud…(I know you would hang me at the gate)…Ha…just a joke..How about Johnny, Jack, or….(Please make sure that there is no One Step in the Solution bottle, no Pro.… in the One Step bottle, only Bud in the Bud bottles)...Ok…Bad joke…
The post by Karl today was quiet reflective, at least for me. How would you say, “Proofs in the Puddin’”.
LOL
John
PS. There have been some unsubstantiated statements on this forum. I feel that Karl has documented facts whereby, well, heck… simply put (at least in this part of the world), Nick should put up, or shut up. I hate to have my time wasted, and that goes for other biased opinionates (that may be under some sort of influence). I am not under the influence as well as other professionals in the industry that only want “knees in the dirt” facts. How about keeping it clean!!!! Thanks! JR
Posted by strakercleaning (strakercleaning), 29 January 2004
JR. I must be one of those biased opinionates you mention as i related my first use of Solutions product and sang its praises.I am biased towards the product over the old product i used and my opinion is nothing more than that. Opinion is the conclusion you make when faced with facts.
You exclude yourself from "the biased opinionate" even though you sing the praises of One product?( even if you do it with such eloquence)
This is an open FORUM where people come together to submit opinions to be discussed openly
I assume that Nick from Solutions will have to come into the fray when user support goes away
DO YOU SEE THAT HAPPENING IN THE NEAR FUTURE?I used my new Solutions products for 2nd time today on white Wool H/S/L near Wimbledon Common ( Snow & Mud ). I will not bore you with my "OPINION" but lets just say that i will not be switching products for a while
I like to stick to praising a product that works for me and will leave the DISRESPECTING of products/people to others. Posted by stevegunn (Steve Gunn), 29 January 2004
Well said strakercleaning everybody needs to draw their own conclusionsPosted by Alan_Kennedy (Alan_Kennedy), 29 January 2004
I agree with Ken on this one. I've used One Step since I started and found it to be first class. Karl supplied my CFR machine and One Step chemicals and the support and advice, as Ken says, is superb. Other threads have made the point that the cost per square foot is minimal. I did a 16 x 14ft carpet this morning and I reckon the cost of the One Step was 60p. I've never tried Solutions but even if it was half the price I'd only save 30p. For that kind of saving I won't bother even although I'm a Scotsman.Incidentally, do we not all complain about price shopping customers, and then do the same ourselves when buying supposedly identical chemicals. If what Karl says is true about the manufacturer of Solutions (not the distributor), then I have no wish to support a company which has acted in the manner Karl alleges.
Regards Alan
Posted by Shaun_Ashmore (Shaun_Ashmore), 29 January 2004
Alan did you play for Liverpool in the late 70s early 80s?Shaun
Posted by strakercleaning (strakercleaning), 29 January 2004
Careful, or you may be considered a "biased opinionate"I understand the wish to support a product you have used since you began and the urge to support the person who supplies your equipment............ but i was like you with regard to Prochem ( which I have used for 20 years almost ). Times change and with it we must move. I looked for a cost effective solution ( no pun intended
) and found one. I am attending the Cleantalk seminar on the 20th Feb at Amtech and will surely be introduced to OneStep. Even if it produces the same results as Solutions product.......I would still be swayed by costs. Two products that produce the same (or almost the same) results is hardly the same as price shoppers looking for CCs. Only someone very naive would make that comparison ......... as we know there is a world of difference in the results one CC can have over another I have been in the game for more than half my life
but will be the first to admit that there are people out there who may get better results on certain jobs than myself. I can say with confidence that i could outdo them people on other aspects of the job, that is why people cannot be compared to chemical results ALLEDGEDLY Posted by Shaun_Ashmore (Shaun_Ashmore), 29 January 2004
Mr.S your an honest man, me myself clean better than anyone else any where ever! apart from that guy last year on this board that cleaned full houses for £3.Shaun
Posted by rob_s (rob_s), 29 January 2004
Hi,Does anyone find the need to use an acid rinse when using one step fineline ? If so,which one is compatible.
rob-s.
Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 30 January 2004
Hi RobI think the use of an acidic rinse agent in the scenario you mention is purely a 'belt and braces' job.
e.g....You may have a rug with fugitive dyes which can be cleaned using acidic cleaning chemicals. The acidic rinse agent is just that added bit of insurance.... fingers crossed
Normally a plain water rinse should suffice.
Derek
Posted by Karl_Nilchibar (Karl_Nilchibar), 30 January 2004
I must apologies for inadvertently upsetting some readers by my comments, but they are facts nonetheless. When a competitor deliberately sets out to mislead readers by publishing false information I feel obliged to put the record straight. I am sure you would all do the same. It goes without saying that our products receive much publicity and endorsement by those who go to an extraordinary length to copy it and this we accept however; to falsify information and make reference to our product whilst doing so is unacceptable.I entirely agree with Phil (Deep Clean) that companies should not use these forums for purpose of advertising their products and I, as a supplier, have always respected this however, on this occasion I felt compelled to respond. I am deeply grateful to the forum Moderators for their indulgence on this occasion. I shall of course refrain from further postings!!
Karl
Posted by strakercleaning (strakercleaning), 30 January 2004
Shaun, I did say on certain jobs ( ie certain degrees of soiling in commercial premises a la truckmount ). Not admitting that i am NO GOOD Put it up purely for illustrative purposes But thanks for the pat on the back and the AAAAAHHHH Posted by Mike_Boxall (Mike_Boxall), 30 January 2004
on 01/30/04 at 12:29:30, Karl_Nilchibar wrote:
|
Hi Karl
I have a feeling that this topic may drag on for a while yet. Nick at Solution UK has indicated he wants the opportunity to reply and I suspect he'll be doing so soon.
Debates like this are perfectly acceptable providing they remain factual and don't become subjective. If you haven't been following the crash test issue in the window cleaning section you may want to have a look to see how easy it is for these things to get out of hand.
Regards
Mike
Posted by Robert_O (Robert_O), 30 January 2004
HiI do not want to get embroiled within any argument, but why should anyone have a problem with manufacturers getting involved in forums? I think that they have a wealth of knowledge and could be very helpful to carpet cleaning companies in passing this on. We could hear straight from the horses mouth of any new products and equipment, and If this inturn helps to promote their products then that's good business, so long as it is a level playing field.
It seems to me that we could actually create a much better working relationship between manufacturer and end user, where we could all benefit. We state our likes and dislikes, our grumbles and gripes, and the manufacturers respond to our needs, in developing kit and chemicals based on grass roots feedback.
Bonnet de deush, as they say in Peckham.
Bonshure for now!
Robert Olifent
Posted by clive (clive), 30 January 2004
Not wanting to stray too much from this subject, but who thinks that Peter Andre will end up with the lovely Jordan on I`m a celebrity?Regards,
Clive.
Posted by strakercleaning (strakercleaning), 30 January 2004
Posted by Alan_Kennedy (Alan_Kennedy), 30 January 2004
ShaunI should be so lucky!
Alan
Posted by Shaun_Ashmore (Shaun_Ashmore), 30 January 2004
Why is Mike Reid there?Shaun
Posted by Ian_Hare (Ian_Hare), 31 January 2004
Mike Read along with Jenny Bond and Neil Ruddock are there to conform with the title 'Celebrity'.Otherwise the show would have to be known by it's more REALISTIC title.........
'I'm a nobody.... get me noticed!'
Posted by Les (Les), 31 January 2004
I have been a 'Prochem' only user to date. Having read your 'Tried and Tested' comments about Solutions and One Step I'm definitely going to give them a go.If any product supplier reads this and wishes to offer a 'Complimentary' sample, please feel free to PM me with details. (well you've got to ask the question)
I promise to purchase more if it works
Posted by rob_s (rob_s), 31 January 2004
HiCan anyone help.Is there anything in the one step range,that can remove coffee,ink, from cotton/synthetic upholstery. Tried the concentrate at 1-1 ratio whith hot water,then agititate, no joy.
Thanks rob-s
Posted by strakercleaning (strakercleaning), 31 January 2004
Now is probably not a good time to say that a chemical is not working on a stain............not when debate is raging on how good One chemical is over anotherPosted by nick.solution (nick.solution), 5 February 2004
The reply from Solution our apologies it will take a couple of postings to enter all informationSOLUTION GLÖCKNER was founded in the year 1990 and occupies itself with production and distribution of special cleaning products for professional cleaning. In the year 1993 SOLUTION had contact with Mr. J.E. Crawford who was distributing cleaning products in Germany with enzymes and similar.
J.E. Crawford was the Managing Director of the company STAR CLEAN. This went into bankruptcy in 1993/1994 J.E. Following this J.E Crawford left Europe. He came back to Germany in 1995/1996 and founded the company CLEAN TECH. He tried to introduce into the German market a product called “ONE STEP”. The chemical content was and is still being produced as an American cleaning product by a company in Spokane, Washington, under there own name and was distributed as soap free !!!... this means, the chemical branded as One Step was not an invention of J.E. Crawford.
In 1996 J.E. Crawford/CLEAN TECH entered exclusive contract with SOLUTION for the distribution of ONE STEP products in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. SOLUTION pursued and financed its own marketing, and developed the marketing term “micro-splitting” for the chemical reaction of ONE STEP products (phosphate based cleaners), which among experts is known as dispersion and has been for more than 50 years. The term “micro-splitting without enzymes or detergents” as well as the label belonging to this are protected for SOLUTION in Germany by patent. number M 97015946, German Patent Office, Munich 27th of June 1997.
SOLUTION distributed ONE STEP products with great success in Germany, and held an 80% share of the total European sales for ONE STEP. In 1998 Ed Crawford sold the company CLEAN TECH to SOLUTION and once more left for the USA.
During the following years SOLUTION bought raw materials from J.E. Crawford (at very inflated prices) and paid licence fees for the name ONE STEP.
In mid of 2000 J.E Crawford came back to Germany and demanded new very high financial contributions for raw material deliveries. Otherwise he would withdraw the contract. This occurred in November 2000 meaning that SOLUTION lost the name ONE STEP overnight. The consequences of this meant that 50% of Solution’s turnover as well as the existence of the company and its employees were endangered.
Faced with situation Günter Glöckner did everything possible to save his company. At times he even took measures, which were not judicially correct. For this SOLUTION/Günter Glöckner was penalised and fined. From the point of view of SOLUTION it was necessary to in order to save the company. J.E. Crawford then founded the company CLEAN TECH for the second time! - after his comeback in 2000, although this had already been sold to SOLUTION in 1998. With regard to this matter there have been a lot of judicial disputes of which J.E. Crawford lost all --contd next posting
Posted by nick.solution (nick.solution), 5 February 2004
contd. The financial claims of SOLUTION against Crawford/CLEAN TECH could not be realised because CLEAN TECH went into bankruptcy in 2001. At this same time J.E. Crawford founded the company TRADEX that also went into bankruptcy in 2003. Today J.E. Crawford’s father now retired is offering to pay by instalments his’ son debts because none of the relevant authorities know J E Crawford’s address of residence in the United States. The judicial disputes have been both time consuming and expensive. There was also a charge against Günter Glöckner/SOLUTION, which was withdrawn, whereas the
District Attorney made calls for the arrest of Ed Crawford at the beginning of 2002 because of suspicions of fraud and blackmail. Reference number 5131 Is 030786/00 District Attorney, Frankenthal.
In case of such disputes only the lawyers are the winners.
Within the scope of different examinations, Chemisches Laborzentrum, Dr. Ulex, Hamburg, examination report no. 141801/3, 150201/12 of May 8th, 2001 it was stated that SOLUTION N° 2 is similar to ONE STEP but concentrated in a different way.
The 25th of April 2001 it was stated by the Institut Fresenius, N° of order 101/07734-00, that SOLUTION N° 2 – analogue to ONE STEP - does not contain any enzymes or detergents. In case of necessity all research results can be put at disposal. These are some of the reasons why SOLUTION never states that the products are identical. We only state that the products are very similar. They are identical according the features detergent free, no enzymes, no odour, micro splitting, non resoiling etc. They are different in concentration. Solution has been compared to some other “detergent free” products reflecting density, pH, etc. Last check January 2004 showed that SOLUTION Nr. 2 is approx. 15% higher concentrated than ONE STEP, the SOLUTION spotter Nr. 3 is approx. 25% higher concentrated than ONE STEP spotter. The comparison was done with products from AMTECH UK.
Nick (SOLUTION UK) and Günter (SOLUTION Glöckner) decided only after lengthy discussion and reflection to write this article. Those details, the publishing of such confidential information can no and should not be the subject of a relationship. The market is great enough for two manufacturers of similar products of micro-splitting/dispersion. SOLUTION has shown with the launch of SOLUTION Nr. 4, Wool cleaner, Woolsafe approved by Wool Safe Organization in February 2001, that we have the knowledge. This launch was long before ONE STEP launched the wool cleaner Fineline.
Only the market can decide which is the more efficient.
The target of SOLUTION in general and SOLUTION UK in particular is to look to the future. To keep the fair and competitive price, to offer training, practical advice, trial packs etc. To introduce new products like textile fiberprotection with SOLUGARD - European Innovation Award Winner 1st prize 2003 for SOLUTION. Simply said, to satisfy all present and future customers .
The forum and the comments gave SOLUTION a lot of constructive ideas for the future. For SOLUTION the market means, a dialogue of which both parties may profit.
Let’s look to this future.
Günter Glöckner For Solution Glöckner Vertriebs-GmbH
Nick Vousden-White Solution UK Ltd
No further statements will be issued regarding this topic by Solution
Posted by Dave_Parry (Dave Parry), 5 February 2004
Thank goodness for that zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzPS is 4 pages a record!!!
Posted by strakercleaning (strakercleaning), 5 February 2004
WOW was that worth the wait.......or what Posted by Robert_O (Robert_O), 5 February 2004
Is that what you call washing your dirty laundry in public. (on both sides that is)Posted by strakercleaning (strakercleaning), 5 February 2004
Yes.......it is a shame that it comes down to a public airing of rights and wrongsWe are all sensible enough to run our own businesses so surely we are capable of deciding which chemicals we use.......ALL ON OUR OWN
I, personnally, choose products that make my life simpler and cheaper..........i am not bothered who sued who............can we move on to new subject now PLEASE
Posted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 5 February 2004
Nicks' post paints a somewhat diferent picture to the posting that started this thread.Having read both several times I have come to my own conclusions as to the content, as I had already done as to the products themselves.
Refering to the final paragraph of Karls' post I note that he states that ".....the term “Micro-Splitting”, this is actually synonymous with One Step® products." My own investigations have revealed that Solution Glöckner Vertriebs-GmbH have registered the term "Micro-splitting" in several European countries - it is certainly not synonymous there !
Though, undoubtably, both parties have a right to exercise their right of free speech, it is a shame if this public display of dirty washing has in any way tarnished either of two excellent products.
Otherwise my feelings run along the lines of Chris Strakers' post, although I personaly am now more biased to one of the two companies.
John.
Posted by Dave_Parry (Dave Parry), 5 February 2004
Would the moderators please veto this thread and stop any more posts on this subject. Enough is Enough. Posted by Scots_cleaner (Scots_cleaner), 5 February 2004
Has this subject gone to bed yet. 
Posted by Nigel_W (Nigel_W), 5 February 2004
<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_8_3.gif' border=0></a>Posted by Nigel_W (Nigel_W), 5 February 2004
Well that worked wellNigel
Posted by Scots_cleaner (Scots_cleaner), 5 February 2004
had to click on them but good try.....Posted by strakercleaning (strakercleaning), 5 February 2004
I have really grown quite fond of this thread What will i do when i come home from work and its not there anymore
Posted by Dave_Parry (Dave Parry), 5 February 2004
Com on lads a world record 5 pages cant be far away Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.Posted by Ultraclean_Systems (Dave Ingram), 6 February 2004
I couldn’t resist this topic as all will know me by now, I can remember a couple of years back when I first started to use One Step this product revolutionised my business. To the point I put another T/M on the road, manned or should I say womanned by my partner at the time this product was not only used on carpets but on upholstery too, with very go results I can still hear the sceptics in our profession saying ( No its Crap, its to expensive, I prefer Prochems products cus they’ve been tried and tested ). I’m not about to name names but little buy little they all started to buy One Step maybe it could have something to do with the video that was provided on how to use the fluid? Now here we are again a few years down the road, yet again an equally good product (Solutions No2) but this time with a more realistic price tag and a better dilution ratio giving some outstanding results not only on carpets but upholstery too. I was not over confident on rinsing with clear water alone until I started using Solutions no2 whether hot or cold water the results are amazing. This makes we wonder did I really need to buy a T/M after all ?Of cause I did we’re in the 21st century an things do move on.
DON’T KNOCK IT, TILL YOU’VE TRIED IT.!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry Mr Parry for not making it to the 5th page but I could not wait any longer before replying.
Posted by Mike_Boxall (Mike_Boxall), 6 February 2004
on 02/05/04 at 19:31:42, Dave Parry wrote:
|
Hi Dave
Why? People are obviously interested in this subject and provided it doesn't keep cropping up as different topics people can choose to ignore it if they wish.
I'm sure both parties realise that it could easily get out of hand and they'll consider where to draw the line.
Regards
Mike
Posted by strakercleaning (strakercleaning), 6 February 2004
These forums are for all to join in and discuss freely.Any topic (legal) and any amount of people from any organisation
Been ages since i have had such a good mass debate
*Disclaimer: If you are easily offended, then do not read the last line too slowly. Thank you
Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 6 February 2004
Hi Guys and GalsI don't think that there are any winners here..
I am particularly sad that two people whom I have the greatest respect for (Nick and Karl) have become embroiled in a bitter battle between two former business partners.
Stories heard or read can only reflect a distortion of the original disagreement...
In my humble opinion the only two people who 'knew' the 'real' truth are Ed Crawford and Gunter Glockner...
I deliberately wrote the word 'knew' as I believe even they may have lost sight of the original reasons.
I sincerely hope that the two UK guys can pick up the pieces and become successful business rivals and more importantly....'friends'
Regards
Derek
Posted by Robert_O (Robert_O), 6 February 2004
I think Derek had the best sentiments on the whole matter in his latter posting.In the past I too got my self so wound up with bad feeling to certain people within the industry, but found that all it was doing was eating me up.
I have learned since though, that to forgive and forget and move on gives you a great deal of piece of mind.
It has been very dificult for me to come to terms with doing this, but I now harbour no grudges and feel much better for it.
It is a bigger man who can learn to do this. Hope that helps!
Regards
Robert Olifent (alias Dear Deardrie)
This page is a thread posted to the cleanitup forum at www.cleanitup.co.uk and archived here for reference. To jump to the archive index please follow this link.