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Window Cleaning Issues - Canvassing, pole systems, pricing, problems, etc.

Trolley water fed pole system

Posted by Rob_B (Rob_B), 4 October 2003
I'm looking to get into water fed pole work, but haven't got enough commercial work yet to justify thousands of pounds on a van mounted system.

I've been looking at the various trolley systems you can buy, and was wondering who had one, how big a job can you do with one, and do you think I would be doing the right thing by testing the water like this?  Huh
Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 4 October 2003
Hi Rob
I had the same problem I  only have enough pole work for one day per month , I have a diy system I bought bits from different places , for a couple of hundred pounds. You need to have a lot of pole work to get back the money you have paid out for a van system.If you start out with a trolley you could upgrade when you have more work, once you have used a pole  its hard to go back up ladders Cool
Posted by sham33 (sham33), 5 October 2003
Is a trolly system any good in a hard water area  Huh I've heard its no good for that. Been thinking of getting that small Cricket system from OTT. I only need it for conservatory roofs not normal windows.
Posted by gibbouk (gibbouk), 5 October 2003
in a hard water area you need a reverse osmosis filter unit. i have a window tools set up peter fogwell's.
i have not started realy marketing it yet but picking up work for it daily. 3 story houses, consevatories etc for the out lay its paid for its self in 5 months, mind you there was a big contract in there but stil pushing it it will pay for itself quickly
Posted by sham33 (sham33), 5 October 2003
Ok thanks. How long do the filters last and how much do they cost to replace? I think the company u mentioned are based in Scotland? Do they deliver the filters when they need replacing because i live in Kent.

Thanks  Smiley
Posted by gibbouk (gibbouk), 5 October 2003
i am in norfolk delivers anywhere... best think contact peter direct for any tech questions, he is helpful with no sales pitch.
Posted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 18 October 2003
Will Peters Trolley fit in a Escort Van Huh

Steve
Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 18 October 2003
Hi Steve
Yes with room to spare, I think he uses a fiesta for his system .Have you been on his webv site  Cool
Posted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 18 October 2003
Hi John,
          I seem to remember looking at it ages ago but can not really remember Embarassed Do you know the web address by any chance Huh

Steve
Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 18 October 2003
Hi Steve
Yes its www.window-tools.com Cool
Posted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 18 October 2003
Cheers John,
                   I will go and have a look Cheesy

Steve
Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 18 October 2003
Hi Steve
You could also try
www.cleantech.co.uk
I think he is a mate of Peters Cool
Posted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 18 October 2003
Thanks John,
                   That looks very impressive. I think that is the system that Karl (Karlosdaze) was telling me about Huh and he is really pleased with his.

Steve
Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 18 October 2003
Hi Steve
The great thing is that now you have more of a choice of where to buy your WFP from , when I got mine it was OTT or Tucker .Plus you can now  buy a bit from a, and a bit from b  as you need it  Cool
Posted by karlosdaze (karlosdaze), 18 October 2003
I bought Peters System
http://www.window-tools.com/
Not cleantechs. I think you pay a lot more for theirs.
Peter has just sent me the full replacement filter kit, cost me 15 pounds & 6 quid postage(Spain) for the RO system. Think it will be alot cheaper for the DI unit.

Posted by Rob_B (Rob_B), 18 October 2003
I got in touch with Peter the other day about the trolley system and he was most helpful.

He was very honest and told me that most who buy this system don't bother to upgrade as this system does everything a bigger one can but has the obvious advantages.



Posted by simonb (simonb), 19 October 2003
How long will one trolley of water last?
Do you switch off the pump as you move from window to window?
Will it work on Georgian windows?
Thanks
Simon
Posted by Rob_B (Rob_B), 19 October 2003
I hope I don't get into trouble or this is seen as an advert but here are the questions that I asked. I have copied and pasted the email.

how much will the delivery charge be?

Delivery is included in the price.

If I wish to upgrade to a vanmount system later on, will it be possible just to buy the tank, etc. that I didn't get with the trolley system, and how much would that be likely to be?

Depends on what you want, pretty cheap if you don't upgrade the water treatment part.
You can use your pump box with the van system.  2x250L water tanks linked together + fittings is 200 a frame to secure them in your van is 250.  

If I can get close enough to a job, am I right in thinking I could use this while still in the back of my estate instead of building up the trolley?

The trolley is put away with everything on it, you just unchain the handle and put a pin in place, it only take about 10 seconds to take it out the car and start using it.

I live in a hard water area, how much water will filters produce before needing to be replaced, and how much do they cost to replace?

The basic 200gpd system which is around 700L needs prefilters between 4 and 6 months at the cost of 15.00 for both, the DI resin used for polishing off to zero last about the same and costs 5.00.  The RO membranes are the expensive part at 90.00 every 2 to 3 years.

I am very interested in this system as I am looking into getting into pole work, but I do not have enough of this work to justify a van mounted system yet. I see the trolley as a good starting point with a view to upgrading, hence the upgrade questions.

Most people with vans that start off with the trolley, have not bothered to upgrade as the trolley does everything a van system does.

Posted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 19 October 2003
Thanks for that post Rob,
                                      They are some of the questions i was going to ask Cheesy

Steve Lowe
Posted by karlosdaze (karlosdaze), 22 October 2003
on 10/19/03 at 16:07:14, simonb wrote:
Do you switch off the pump as you move from window to window?
Will it work on Georgian windows?
Thanks
Simon

Peters system has a remote control, you turn it off and on at will. Georgian windows, yes, does all the frames as well.
Posted by simonb (simonb), 22 October 2003
Karl
Thanks for that
How do you know when the window is clean?
Simon
Posted by gibbouk (gibbouk), 22 October 2003
i am using peters system and to begin with i had the thought how do i know if the windows clean.. even now i use a downstairs one as a test. do all my upstairs and then do the down, go round the back do them and then check the front downstairs. its getting to the stage now where i dont even need to. but got into the habit now. i must admit my best results are on wood framed windows they come good first time, upvc do take a couple of cleans.
i do 10 showhomes and now introducing them to it. and the like the fact the frames are bright white. also can do the facias in pretty quick time so can keep the price low for more frequent work.
Posted by karlosdaze (karlosdaze), 22 October 2003
on 10/22/03 at 22:30:45, simonb wrote:
Karl
Thanks for that
How do you know when the window is clean?
Simon


As Gibbouk says. its all a matter of experimentation to find the right amount of scrubbing on each pane. I tested it on commercial first use, with all the vinyl lettering (because I hate scrimming under the letters afterwards). The first clean is always the hardest, I had to do it twice. There is a problem with all the film left on by previous window cleans, infact using gg4 before this helps a lot. The second wash comes up a whole lot better. The bonus is the clean frames, so even when after the first clean, it's not so hot, the second clean shows the benefit.

Posted by shinnyshinner (shinnyshinner), 28 October 2003
Hi Guys
Just out of interest how do you sell this method of cleaning to the public I have spoke a few times to my customers about pure water cleaning and the responce was negative I must say.
What makes it harder is to say the 1st clean wont come up clean I really want to get into peters system but worried it wont pay people are quite hard to turn. I find if you talk to customers about H&S the reply is not my problem if they are not getting results for what they are paying for

Cheers
Alan
Posted by peterf (peterf), 28 October 2003
on 10/28/03 at 21:50:47, shinnyshinner wrote:
Hi Guys
Just out of interest how do you sell this method of cleaning to the public I have spoke a few times to my customers about pure water cleaning and the responce was negative I must say.
What makes it harder is to say the 1st clean wont come up clean I really want to get into peters system but worried it wont pay people are quite hard to turn. I find if you talk to customers about H&S the reply is not my problem if they are not getting results for what they are paying for

Cheers
Alan


Alan I think a lot is to do with what type of customers you have.  If you have terraced council houses you will get some resistance, as they are usually older people and in all day, they think a window cleaner should have a bucket of soapy water and a ladder.  The private houses are usually people who are out working, and some have already seen the pure water being used on their work or office, they come home at night see the slip telling them the windows have been done and they are quite happy.

Most of my domestic customers fell into the second bracket, any I seen, or any that questioned the way the windows were being cleaned, were explained to the way the system worked, they trusted me enough to accept what I said, I told them if they had any problems to give me a call and I would be back straight away to redo them.  None ever called.

If most of your customers are the terraced houses then you may want to forget a pole system, or you can keep cleaning the houses with your ladder and look for other work to replace the work you have.

I have heard of people giving the customer plenty notice, and giving them a leaflet explaining the process, but I personally leapt into it head first, it was all or nothing, I couldn't climb a ladder when I had a pole that could reach the glass.  BTW I cleaned everything with a pole and squeegee before I got into the pure water, so at least my customers were used to seeing the pole.

You shouldn’t have any problems with commercial work.

Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com




Posted by shinnyshinner (shinnyshinner), 29 October 2003
Hi Peterf
Thank you for your reply on this, since I last spoke to you last I have been getting and waiting for feedback from customers
Many thanks
Alan
Posted by james44 (james44), 1 November 2003
hi i have found this on a site (white vinegar) white vinegar will eliminate soap residue by adding 1 cup of white vinegar to the final rinse, quote! vinegar is to mild to harm fabrics but strong enough to dissolve alkalies in soaps and detergents, do you lads think if a vinegar rinse was used in the pole system that it would get rid of soap residue first wash .


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