General Cleaning Issues - Floorcare, car valeting, buying and selling businesses, pricing, staffing, market research, etc.
waterless car cleaning
Posted by no_water_no_wet (no_water_no_wet), 19 March 2004 why are we still cleaning cars etc the same way as 40 years ago, water is no longer the way, we are in the 21st century and as usual the americans have left us miles behind.
this is not advertising as the company whose web site i say look at will not accept any work, but view www.blueplanetvaleting.com to see the future.
i am not a valeter, just a woman who demos but these guys are the business and what they dont know about valeting you could get on a stamp.
Posted by replacement (Justin R), 19 March 2004I sometimes use my Water Fed Pole to wash my car ( got a wicked 2ft Pole now ), no cleaning the water off after just leave to dry. Comes up sooo good had a few people stop and ask how much i charge. Might look into it with pure water cos it dont half look good after.
Posted by james44 (james44), 21 March 2004no- water-no wet Most of the good american detailers slate waterless valeting because it`s a coating not a protective if you do your research you will find that out,it`s not a big thing over there to the detailers in the know, they just rubbish it
Posted by no_water_no_wet (no_water_no_wet), 21 March 2004Sorry James
But your wrong there, no-wet is not like the other products dri guard etc, it contains caranuba wax and kaolin clay amonst other things and as been approved by all the major paint manufactures worldwide. it is not a glaze but a high class polish and my research is based on my visits to the states. you might also be interested to know that in the uk there are jaguar dealers and merc as well as lexus dealers to name just a few who have endorsed it and are using it. on 03/21/04 at 15:10:41, james44 wrote:
no- water-no wet † †Most of the good american detailers slate waterless valeting †because it`s a coating not a protective if you do your research you will find that out,it`s not a big thing over there to the detailers in the know, they just rubbish it
Posted by james44 (james44), 21 March 2004same stuff different name sorry!
Posted by no_water_no_wet (no_water_no_wet), 22 March 2004so what you are saying is that all the experienced valeters in these prestige showrooms are wrong in their choice and that the five valeters i know with over 30 years service between them are also wrong in choosing it. i think we should agree to disagree, before we do that i assume you have put the no-wet through its paces.
Posted by james44 (james44), 22 March 2004yes i have had a sample as i say i found it same as dri wash even the bottles look the same,each having 17 different ingerdients each to our own i suppose.
Posted by jb_valet (jb_valet), 24 March 2004 HI James
have just come on board and caught yours and no wets running battle, well thats what it looks like to me.
i dont think you have tried the no wet product, and are confusing it with dri-wash or similar, no wet from when i have used it is nothing like the others.
the dri guard lists over 64 ingredients not 17 and the bottles are nothing like each other nor the smell.
everyone to their own i agree, i have many years experience in the game and you cant stop the future, yes there are a lot of bad waterless products as there is normal polish, but no wet is top class, and americans only slate most of them because they want to stick to the cheap crap and water.
Posted by DP (DP), 25 March 2004Sorry for butting in here and not being experienced at all in this field, but reading the above, I have to ask the question, "what exactly is wrong with cheap crap and water"? It seems to have worked and proved itself for many years and I suspect much longer then any expensive modern crap.
My point is if there is a modern product as you say that offers a real economical or viable benefit then thatís evolution, great.
However lets keep it in perspective, as there has to be a reason why people still want to use or revert back to water and cheap crap. After all it still keeps many millions of people gainfully employed across all fields, can they still all be wrong?
Just another point of view, thatís all and please remember that anti ageing cream has a vast number of ingredients as well, but it has never managed to stop my wife looking older every single day. †
Ps. does your stuff work on people by any chance? †
Posted by no_water_no_wet (no_water_no_wet), 25 March 2004hi DP
leaving out the argument what is better, the main point of waterless products being produced was because some states in the U.S.A banned car washing to preserve water stocks.
if every one stopped to think the average amount of water being wasted is something like 80/90 litres using a pressure washer and even worse change that to gallons with a hose pipe then you get the idea.
Now put those figures in to the mix with thousands upon thousands of car dealers washing cars daily you will soon realise what we are wasting. Now thats not the main reason why council car parks are now canceling contracts with the car washers, it,s because that cheap rubbish like wash n wax and the like are filtering down into rivers and waterways causing toxins to damage wildlife and worse it is contaminating our own water source which is costing more and more to clean .
here is some food for thought for everyone, less than one per cent of the total water on this planet is fit for human consumption and we are wasting it on car cleaning, thats why i became a waterless supplier.
Thank you jb valet for your input on no_wet and if you contact me i can now supply you instead of you having to get delivery from Scotland.
Love to you all even you James
Posted by DP (DP), 25 March 2004A very noble and worthy cry in the dark, and I take my hat off to you for your morality on this subject especially if you can make money from it.
However there is non so more convincing then the evangelist particularly when they can earn from it, so with this incredible commitment to saving the planet, I take it that socialising for you must be difficult in light of no baths, or clean cloths, carpets, windows etc etc.
I think you will find that all production of any product puts a strain on the planet and many of the professed eco friendly chemicals actually more strain then most by vertue of their natural product requirements and levels of concentration to be able to work.
So spread the word by all means, but you get nothing for nothing so lets not be too keen on the subject, as I often find the formula of:
Planetary views +
Available Product +
Source of income = Commercial Bull !
Glad to see you have forgiven James Iím sure he will sleep better now. Looks like Iím doomed though, what will I do with those wide awake nights FOX where are you!!
Posted by Fox (Fox), 25 March 2004Hi DP
I'm still about you just wore me out!!!!! Kept me up all night last time - was good though †
As for the waterless thing whether my opinion means anything or not I don't care - going to give it anyway!!
My Dad worked at the sewage works for over 30 yrs (basically brought up there lol!) and I don't think any of you on here have a clue what goes on at a water treatment plant. †The last thing to worry about are the 'cheap chemicals' that may end up in the water system, yes they don't help but I think you will find now days they have to be environmently safe.
I must say that I do agree with DP and James using the fact that things are 'environmentally safe' you are selling an idea not your product, does it really help? (in short scaremongering if you ask me). Does it really make the world a safer place? Ummm - no but it makes you money!!!!! †
Yes we all need to look after the environment but surely this can be done on an every day basis without putting other methods through the mill and not thoroughly investigating them.
For me - car wash - hose pipe and 'cheap cleaner' anyday.
Posted by Clean_Waterless (Waterless Car Cleaning Company), 26 March 2004To water or not to water surely depends on preference.
Our Autobella waterless products are cleaning 1000īs of cars per day as I am sure are other valeting methods.
The Waterless system opens up areas of business which is not convenient for water based cleaning. I.e in sites with poor drainage or where there are not chemical traps etc.
Some people prefer waterless to water and vice versa.
I think the individual is quite capable of assessing which product works for them and they also quite capable of determining which product suits there needs.
There are a number of products available which satisfies a number of applications and with any business whether its window cleaning or car cleaning the individual will determine for themselves which is best. Advice is always usefull when it is qualified.
All I know from this forum is that the majority of the regular participants are nothing but tyre kickers, a waste of time and effort. I have no time for you.
You beg for samples, and then when you receive them you donít have the courtesy to comment, good or bad.
I am pleased there is an alternative to this site! It may well turn out as this one has but at the moment itís a refreshing change.
I do wish you all the best but I think the word anorak was invented for most of you.
Signing off permanently.
Posted by Tony_Browning (Tony_Browning), 26 March 2004hahahahah!
Posted by james44 (james44), 26 March 2004Don`t Rush Back
Posted by Fox (Fox), 26 March 2004Talk about throwing your toys out of your pram!
Posted by DP (DP), 26 March 2004Sorry Mr Waterless but I think they only want professionals over there, so using comments like that might get you booted off, but then again maybe they wont !!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Musicman (Musicman), 27 March 2004Well I'm going to defend Waterless and NWNW and if you don't like it - tough!
Gary from Waterless was one of the earlier members of this forum and his advice has always been technically sound, constructive and helpful - what more do you want from the guy?!
Free samples - apparently!
I have seen several posts from people asking for them, and assuming that they were sent, there has never been any word of thanks or comment upon their performance.
To me it is professional courtesy to at least acknowledge the sample and to pass comment on how well/badly it performed for us all to see.
OK, at times his posts were a little annoying as the mention of his products was getting a bit repetitive BUT people had a problem that he had the solution to. Isn't that what you were asking for?
Now to NWNW.
With respect DP a dig on someone's cleanliness is just a bit too personal for my liking, whether tongue in cheek or not.
The comments about the manufacture of eco-friendly products putting a greater strain on the planets resources is a huge generalisation and I would be interested to see the sources of your information to back up your comments.
Even assuming that you do have that information, can I ask if you have researched the products that NWNW uses?
As far as an evangelical approach goes, I think it's great that somebody can feel so strongly about their products or services. If I had the choice of buying from someone who was enthusiastic about their product, who really believed in it, or from someone who was a lot more laid back and uncommitted I would certainly go for the former.
I took am a hard nosed cynic, but I do try to see the best in people and the insinuation that NWNW is promoting these products through the Commercial BS route is, I feel, a little wide of the mark.
One thing I have learned from life is that there are two types of people - those that say they are going to do something, and those that actually do it.
We can all sit back and wait for other people to do their bit for the planet, or we can get off our backsides and do it ourselves.
Gary, for one I'm sorry to see you go, and Lyn keep flying the flag, I hope you are successful - I'm sure you will be.
Posted by no_water_no_wet (no_water_no_wet), 27 March 2004thank you music man, i already have several good customers and have three main dealers who want me to come and demonstrate the product for them.
for all those valeters and future valeters out there a word of advice, don,t pay over the odds for your supplies.
i don,t sell anything except my product but know the prices of items such as carpet cleaner, wash n wax etc can differ by as much as 200%, i do know of a supplier who is very good on prices and his products are very good. He lives in Hampshire area and covers areas bordering it, if any one wants his number.
Posted by lenpg (Len Gribble), 27 March 2004Musicman
You get my vote
Lyn keep at it
Posted by Les (Les), 28 March 2004Hi all,
I don't wish to be involved in any 'Mud Slinging' . I always believed that this site was launched with the idea of helping each other out where we can, it's a tough old world out there and we don't need to be arguing with colleagues in the same line of work
That said, I did ask about samples of the No Water products, simply because I was willing to give them a try. I was told that they weren't available as 'Freebies' because everyone asked for them but no-one bothered to respond or order afterwards.....'Hullo' that said to me 2 things, are the products not any good hence no-one ordering them and secondly, don't wait for people to respond...contact them and get their opinions ! If they are positive, ask for an order, if they are negative, deal with the issues and move on.
I couldn't afford to purchase a sample of every product offered to me on the promise that it's the best thing since sliced bread.
Incidentally 3 companies from this site have provided samples to me, all did what they said on the tin, and all 3 have received orders and reccomendations from me.
So stick with it those of you with products to sell, if they're good and you go about it the right way...you'll reap the rewards in the end
All the best
Posted by DP (DP), 30 March 2004Musicman, your way way off, which is evident by your post, and sorry I have no intension of running an errand for you ref the evidence, thatís your job if you choose to argue the issue, Iím quite happy with my own statement thanks, but it makes great reading and you should find it quite interesting. Watch this space!
First of all whether we profess to sell or not, if you come onto a forum like this saying all good things about a product as a new thread, then thatís exactly what your doing (which is perfectly ok) and most people will realise that. Lyn says "this is not advertising" well it sure seems that way to me. However Lyn then goes on to say "Iím just a woman that demos" (which or course eliminates her from all areas of sales and advertising, or am I wrong on this).
The one thing I hate is sacrificial selling (this is the act of slagging off each others service or product in favour of your own) If the new service or product is any good in the first place it wouldnít need these cheap tactics. The only time those comparisons are deemed ethical is in price.
Now the most dangerous tactic is Auto Suggestion used in sales pitches and one the Americans love. (this is the act of suggesting a problem and then offering the cure) although not a problem in itself, until you add the guilt factor, leaving somebody feeling guilty about either who they are or any part of their normal life, all for the sake of profit.
The facts on shortages maybe real, but using them this way its both immoral and unethical . With regards to the so called personal insult, I think you need to read back and see if †you can find the clue to the point being made, if you cant I can always re- do the post using smaller words if it helps, however †I will apologise for thinking that you were just using it as a mis- quote to bolster your own image (after all that would just be shallow), I can now see where the problem might be.
"No water" †products maybe very good and have their uses in their own right, †if you already use them then you will know the benefits, if you need the comfort factor of thinking that its †saving the world then thatís great. If you need to sell them, well we all have to make a living but why stoop to slagging other products off or using the oh so commercially worn out global issue by trying to make profit from it and then tell everyone how concerned you are, as I said commercial bull.
Always surprises me how people view reality, however †for the egotists and self denials I know of another place its great everybody thinks the same because they are all professionals apparently (I must look that word up again).
Posted by replacement (Justin R), 30 March 2004That was nice reading there DP just wish a few other compaines take that info onboard.
Posted by gibbouk (gibbouk), 2 April 2004i am one of the people who complains about these sort of posts. they chip in on posts with their product and no other help. check out their old posts and see what they have said in the past. its like cut and paste heaven. i see the professional reatailers on here they answer questions and their only advert is the line at the bottom of the post and they dont hide behind a screen name.
Posted by DP (DP), 5 April 2004Hi gibbouk
Apologies but you lost me just a little there, who are you referring to in particular?
i.e. who are you agreeing or disagreeing with or which post or person?
Posted by gibbouk (gibbouk), 5 April 2004i dont give a damn about waterless car cleaning and who is right and wrong. the problem i have is people who feel that an answer to someones question is a sales pitch. now the thing seems to be to do it under cover ie. "this is not me but i know a great product or i have found this great supplier" i have not seen this since i got mugged by amway salesmen
Posted by DP (DP), 7 April 2004Ah right that clarifies it a bit more.
Itís curious you mention Amway as I too was a victim some 25 years ago and noticed a large number of similarities with the Waterless (as in Mr Waterless) structure, however these similarities would no doubt be easily justified by those who sell the products as trained.
Posted by gibbouk (gibbouk), 7 April 2004i went to a recruitment meeting it was so funny. the only person who makes money was the top man everyone else had their wedding suits on trying to look sucessful. mention saturation sales point and they get all worried
Posted by Ian_G. (Ian_Gourlay), 10 April 2004I did not make my million out of Amway either.
That was about 25 years ago also.
However I did learn about Direct Marketing.
Positive Mental Attitude etc.
Posted by Splashgroup (Splashgroup), 10 April 2004Oh dear , trouble at the mill .
Sorry to see that Gary rose to the occasion, but he does have a point about the samples.....people can be so rude. Why not in future say they can have as many samples as they like but they must pay for carriage via courier by Credit card NOW, you will then solve the problem of givin "Free Bees" out to "Tyre Kickers" only genuine people will take you up on it. We know it works because thats just what we do.
And as for cheap products I feel as long as the Valeter is experienced enough He/She will be able to achieve a similar result.
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