Carpet Cleaning Issues - Carpet construction, upholstery cleaning, stain removal, equipment, events, etc.
Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 10 February 2004Hi Leerob
There is no predudice on this Forum you can post away as long and as often as you like.
Forthright comments are good as we can get opinions from all aspects of the business... to do otherwise I, personally, would consider it a bit of a narrow minded attitude which gets no one anywhere.
Hows that for a forthright comment?
Posted by Chemdry (Chemdry), 10 February 2004Lee I would ask that you think very carefully before you post in future. Your allegations are as you know incorrect as is,I believe, your opening statement or have you moved on again?
Posted by MB (Mark Betts), 10 February 2004hahah watch out Lee, Big Bruvvas watchin ya hahaha
It seems to me that the majority of Chemdry (note i said majority so not meaning ALL) operators seem to think they are elitist or something, i mean the rest of us carpet cleaners share our ups and downs of the trade but no not these guys hahahha
Makes me laugh!!!!!
Posted by SteveTruman (SteveTruman), 10 February 2004Hi Lee
I used to have one of there franchises and packed it in 7 yr ago. Best thing i ever did Must agree with your comments though
These are my personnal views for those who come on under psudenoms and threaten.....
Posted by Shaun_Ashmore (Shaun_Ashmore), 10 February 2004I guess they've invested a lot of time and money on the brand name admitting to this would mean that all of the hard work has gone down the swanny.
Some franchisees will be better than others but poor workmanship from anyone should be dealt with in the correct manner whether it be in house or not, but don't forget who raised the awareness of having carpets cleaned the most.
I believe CD has helped our industry and I personally would not knock them but perhaps a few individuals let them down ( although they do have a chip on there shoulder, when I spoke to a lady from CD head office at the NCCA show she said we do not clean with water and spouted off about how dangerous water cleaning was! my mate who is a CD franchisee says he doesn't know what they are on about of course he uses water, I also upset her when I asked when they were going to get there 1st TM and she said CD were not developing one because the system didn't need one but the CD in Canada have them!!!!)
Posted by lenpg (Len Gribble), 10 February 2004
You state that you were an ex-employee, please define EX of the franchisor or ex of a franchisee there are differences? Sadly opinion and freedom of speech is a one-way street with franchisors, read the franchisees licence agreement.
Regarding poor performers or elitist I welcome them with open arms, be it franchised or not the more they screw up the more work I get. The way I get more referrals is my name not the company I work for, though I own it. (It’s nice to have a brand name but look at if you were the customer if you feel you get C*** service you go else were then the brand means nothing)
Mister Chemdry roger I believe looking a your e-mail address if you are so proud of your system why not come clean with your full details, that also applies too Lee and Shaun (who must be cd from his posting) and others (sorry old story come clean I don’t’ have a problem with this as competition is good for business).
I see it as I read it!
Posted by John_Flynn (John_Flynn), 10 February 2004Hey Sheffield Shaun it's out in the open Lenny says your a CD
Posted by Dave_Parry (Dave Parry), 10 February 2004Maybe this is a reason to have at least MINIMUM details compulsary to log on to the forum. What these should be could be debated but art least, location, self-employed/employed, and genuine e-mail, with other details optional. Not to enable any type of witch hunt but so at least we know who is posting.
Posted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 10 February 2004That makes sense Dave - why would anyone not wish to comply?
Posted by Jim_Lynch (Jim_Lynch), 11 February 2004I'm not familiar with the "chat site" to which leerob refers, but I assume it's an in-house forum for franchisees, moderated by the Master Franchisee in the UK. We have a similar forum in OZ, but unfortunately it is now pretty moribund. The US franchisees also have a similar facility.
There were in past years a couple of forums for franchisees which were run by franchisees, and because of the non-involvement of big brother, they were well patronised and discussions were very forthright. Unfortunately, the moderator of one left the system, and the subsequent forum fell apart because of infighting. But, I digress...
The forums are not public, and are restricted to franchise owners mainly. As an employee of a franchise owner, I would expect leerob's involvement in such a forum to be somewhat limited. Not to denigrate the position of an employee, but the franchise owner would be in possession of more information than an employee, in most cases. I'm sure the business owners here would agree that the input from their employees here would be less than from them.
As an ex-employee, why would leerob expect to have access to the CD forum? I would expect the moderator to block or delete any person with no legitimate right to be on the forum, irrespective of the merits or otherwise of the points raised.
There is nothing wrong with having an opinion and expressing it. That is not the issue.There is a time and place for everything, and in this case, you were in the wrong place.
As regards names of posters, this has been a subject discussed over many years on various discussions boards. I'm all for making it compulsory for real names to be provided on profiles, but that is in the hands of the board's administrators. It can be done.
Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 11 February 2004Jim
You made the very point I was about to make... the fact that Leerob was an EX Franchise employee.
It may be that there is a certain point in the year that a password is changed and that since his leaving it hadn't been changed.... just guessing.
Opinions are fine, especially if they are constructive and I am sure that although Leerob has now been excluded from the site his comment, if relevant, will have been acted upon.
Posted by Shaun_Ashmore (Shaun_Ashmore), 11 February 2004Len, as Michael winner says 'calm down dear' it didn't take long for you to work out that I am
who told you ?
did I meet you at the Butt and Bend last Thursday?
Posted by amberview (amberview), 11 February 2004Hi Leerob
I have read with great interest the discussion your original posting has generated.
I am a franchisee (but not CD), and have historically placed postings on this site regarding my unhappiness with the franchise.
I am not in the least surprised to see the response from "Roger", as freedom of speech, and the ability to think for yourself, is not a luxury enjoyed by most franchisees.
In our Franchise, freedom of speech is only permitted if what you have to say is beneficial to the the franchisor, and if what you are going to say has been "vetted" by them first - some Freedom !
The ability to speak freely is what makes this site all the more enjoyable, and indeed, beneficial to all who participate. From personal experience, some of the emails I received following my postings, have been of great assistance to me (thanks to all concerned, they know who they are).
As for making it compulsory to have your real name added to your profile, I think it could be disasterous for certain franchisees. If a franchisee is happy with the franchise, then he should have the right to tell people so(anonomously or otherwise). But equally, if a franchisee is unhappy, he should have the same opportunity to let his or her views known without fear of reprisal.
An attempt to set up an independent forum (ie for franchisees only) was I believe, squashed by our franchisor as it would "breach agreement". A breached agreement could result in the loss of the franchise, and hence the subsequent loss of your entire investment - serious stuff !
Oh, and just in case big brother is watching me, the above posting is my personal view only.
Posted by Happyeater (Happyeater), 11 February 2004Isn't it a bit sad that franchisees have to tread so carefully as they fear for their livelyhoods if they talk about their own experiences.
Is why I left the franchisor I worked for.
Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 12 February 2004Hi Amber
You make an excellent case for non disclosure of your correct name.. I am fully aware that you are not the only one giving a valuable contribution to this Forum who is in the same situation.
Carry on the good work
Posted by Robert_O (Robert Olifent), 12 February 2004I would have thought that Franchisors would certainly appreciate the importance of keeping Franchisees happy, and forum discussions are possibly a good way of listening and acting upon any grumbles or gripes.
However If Leerob was no longer a Franchisee, then It is understandable the withdrawal or exclusion of his postings on a private Forum.
On the other side of things though, you cannot keep everyone happy all of the time, but freedom of speech at least should be allowed (in my humble opinion).
Posted by Jim_Lynch (Jim_Lynch), 12 February 2004The original post has been deleted, but as I recall, leerob was complaining that the moderator of a private CD forum had prevented him from posting there. Leerob admits he is no longer employed by CD or a franchisee, yet seems to take offence that he cannot put his opinions on that forum.
There is no dispute that leerob has freedom to express his opinions, but that forum is not the place. He can certainly do it here or on other public forums.
I have been a franchisee for over fourteen years and I really cannot see the point in all this cloak and dagger stuff. If you have a point of view, express it...why be scared of who is looking over your shoulder.
If you don't like the system in which you work, find another one, or go independent. All this stuff about being scared to speak your mind is laughable.
How's that go again....something about heat and kitchens
I appreciate there are constraints in the franchise agreements, but there is no need to run scared and not express any opinions.
Posted by amberview (amberview), 12 February 2004Hi Jim
I have read with your latest posting regarding Chem-Dry and have come to the conclusion that we are living in two very different worlds.
You state that you have been a franchisee for 14 years, and from that I have (rightly or wrongly) surmised that you are happy, or at least content, with yours.
My personal view is that no two franchisees are the same, and they may be happy with the “system”, for different reasons. There are those that seek large businesses, with lots of staff, and they essentially enjoying having a small empire. There are those that enjoy whatever sized business, but enjoy the ego boost of sitting on the franchisee/or committee or council. Then there are those who are (shamelessly) in it for one reason, the profit.
I fall into the latter category, but that is not to say that I do not get a great deal of satisfaction from seeing a job well done, or having a happy customer.
You have given your name, but I do not know what your franchise is. I think it would be of great service if you would disclose that information, as I am sure that many people would like to know what franchise businesses are good (especially from one who is currently working in one), and the reasons as to what makes it so good. If its that good, I might even be persuaded to buy one myself.
As for your comments about how laughable the “cloak and dagger stuff” was, I am sitting here with a letter from somebody who was/is within our network, apologising for the fact that he had set up a chat-room for franchisees that was in breach of franchise agreement.
I don’t think my wife would be laughing all that much, if I came home to tell her that I had just lost my franchise, home, future etc. for speaking out in opposition to the franchisor.
If you are in a position to speak out freely, then do so, and if you have been doing it for 14 years then I assume that you are now free from the bank loan - millstone around your neck syndrome. However, it is the new franchisees that are the most vulnerable, with their normally large bank loans. If they, like I, think that there is a risk of putting the business viability at some risk by speaking out openly and freely, then they should take whatever precautions as would seem prudent.
Your comment regarding “if you can’t stand the heat – get out of the kitchen”, is very similar to the one used by our HO staff – “ if you don’t like it – leave”, when dealing with peoples unhappiness regarding recent changes.
For clarities sake: we enjoy the heat, like the kitchen, and are happy with most of our customers, most of the time. What I don’t like, is when the landlord is standing at the door demanding an unfair rent increase, simply because he knows he can get away with it.
Again I hasten to add, that these are purely my own views
Posted by leerob695 (leerob695), 12 February 2004Well Said AMBERVEIW
I am please that you and some others on here agree with my opinions
While i take on board the comments that others have said about me being an ex emplyee of a ch&m d&y (no names mentioned there MR Roger ) and that i had no right to be on that particular website which i now agree that i shouldnt really have been on that site being an ex employee but that was not my point the point of my original post was that i put a comment on that website asking a question about why poor performing franchises are still getting insurance work and so on now my point was that i had been removed from that website
the person who posted by the name of chemdry is i believe to be one of the bigwigs from a master franchise
and to me it was basicly telling me to shut my mouth or else well mr roger as i said it is a personal opinion and if having an opinion is wrong in your book then i am sorry all i can say is listen to people and you will learn more
and isnt it funny how he has only put one post on here and that was directed at myself
anyway as i said this is just my personal opinion!!!!
Posted by lenpg (Len Gribble), 13 February 2004
There are four worlds!! Government, Local government, Franchisors and yours!! But if you are in franchise world in reality franchisors, franchisors, franchisors & franchisors the others don’t exist, I’m not saying that bad, but in some cases you are treated less than then the staff you employ.
Michael Winner is a fiend of a friend of mine it’s NOT what you know it whom (what a gent no joke)
Jim in Brisbane
Quote! I really cannot see the point in all this cloak and dagger stuff. So why don’t you give your full details i.e. company names etc I have family in your neck of the woods also in Adelaide, Mel, Sid, & sadly Tas I may be able to give you some work!
Moderators just got home tonight
Why was leerob695 1st post deleted??
Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 13 February 2004Hi Len
I would suspect that Lee felt that he wanted to remove his own post due to the comments that were subsequently made.
As a moderator I didn't remove his post...I personally didn't think there was any malice contained within it... it was just a comment.
Unfortunately the Company concerned felt otherwise but I, again personally, feel that Lee being, as he stated, an' ex Frachise employee' posted incorrectly but it was down to the Franchise organisation to make sure that he couldn't gain access to their site.
From one who has put his 'very large foot in it' at various points in the past I can understand why Lee pulled his post (if in fact it was him)
Let's move on folks
Regards to all
Posted by Jim_Lynch (Jim_Lynch), 13 February 2004This thread has lost it's way a bit, and as Derek says, it's time to move on.
If anyone took the time to check my profile and read previous posts, they would find that I am a CD franchisee in Brisbane, Australia. My trading name is CD Supreme, as can be seen in my email address, also in the profile.
Does the UK have a Franchising Code of Conduct? We have one which has legal backing under the Trade Practices Act. Regarding the specific matter of a franchisee forming an independent forum, the franchisor cannot prevent that here as the code specifically states that " A franchisor can not stop franchisees from forming an association or otherwise getting together."
It may be worthwhile to check out a similar code in your neck of the woods.
I'm afraid we shall have to agree to disagree on anonymity. It's interesting that the anonymous poster "ChemDry" is jumped on for not providing his details, yet "Amberview" is encouraged to continue being anonymous. Double standard?
It should be remembered that this forum, and all the others on the 'net, are places where peers meet to discuss problems, compare work situations, and generally socialise. They are not chat rooms, where nicknames and anonymity abound. If someone is conversing with me in this forum, I treat it as a virtual face-to-face discussion, and if I am willing to introduce myself, common courtesy dictates the other party does the same. In meeting someone physically and proffering your hand and name, how would you react if the other person shuns your handshake and refuses to introduce himself?
To borrow someone else's tagline, "The above posting is my personal view only"
Posted by leerob695 (leerob695), 13 February 2004yes i removed my post myself i felt that after the post that "chem-dry" put on it was the only thing to do
what do you mean that i have "put a very large foot in it" please derek
ps i agree with derek's comment "it is time to move on"
Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 13 February 2004Hi Lee
My comment about the 'very large foot' related to my own feet which have, in the past, inadvertantly been inserted fairly and squarely in my mouth. In other words..I have dropped a clanger
To err is human...so they say...that's my excuse
Onward and upward lads and lasses
Posted by amberview (amberview), 13 February 2004Hi Jim,
Yes, I think we will have to agree to disagree on the question of anonymity.
However, in retrospect I think that perhaps I owe you an aplology for my "over prickly" reply, which is I am fully aware, directly related to my own sensitivity relating to the issues I have with my franchisor.
I think I too have oversized feet !
No tagline on this one
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