Carpet Cleaning Issues - Carpet construction, upholstery cleaning, stain removal, equipment, events, etc.
Prochem Cheyenne 3
Posted by squeaky (squeaky), 14 March 2004On paper this looks a good machine and good value,
does anyone have/or used one of these machines ? and if so a bit of info would be appreciated.
Posted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 14 March 2004Mark,
I bought one of these to get the case for an own-build but played with it first.
The build quality was very good and the performance was all that could be expected from a twin-vac machine with a 100psi pump. the casing is extreamly rugged an the long diagonal from the handle to the front caster wheels make for good leverage (casters on metal step at back of van, rear wheels on ground, lift handle to load).
Other 'incidental' plus points are thet the hose connections are both at the top-front and the discharge at the rear. The overall physical balance is very good and the case hinges open for easy access to major components, and this can be done with the solution tank full. I have replaced motor brushes outside a cusomers' house without moveing the machine and the only disconnections being the vac hose and mains plug.
From the design point of view, the biggest failing with this and many other porties, is ventilation. In order to fit a fan, due to double-skinning on most of the case, the only option is to remove the metal plate that carries the mixer valve etc. for the heat exchanger and fabricate a replacement with a fan. If an external heat exchanger is to be used (eg Ashbys' Steamate) the loss of these parts is immaterial.
Another, less crucial, failing is that the hot exhaust from the vac units is directed at the pump, causing it to run hotter. This is easily overcome with a simple deflector plate.
Before this critique spurns a flood of posts from Cheyenne owners, saying it's the best machine ever, I should say that I got into cleaning as a result of designing machines in the mid-sixties and therefore my view of any machine will differ from the average rug-suckers'.
You could do much worse than buy one of these ( or for an extra £1000 you could go for a Recoil 3HP)
Posted by mike_halliday (mike_halliday), 14 March 2004John the Cheyanne design must have changed since you looked at it
The vac exhaust points down expelling the air out of the metal grill not towards the pump. as for ventalation I think the cheyannes is excellent because the full floor is a mesh grill which allows lots of air to curculate.
I think the biggest design flaw with the Cheyanne is having the vacs in series I changed my to parrall and found they lasted longer.†I also had to remove the plastic ball out of the filter as it kept getting sucked up and cutting off the vacuum ( which says to me the vacs where pulling harder as this never happened when in series).
if anyone has the cheyanne, when a vac motor goes replace it with a 2 stage vac ( putting the 2 stage first inline) this works out cheaper and stops the 2nd vac taking more heat) the performance is'nt noticebly reduced.
Posted by rob_s (rob_s), 14 March 2004Hi All,
I've just sold my Cheyenne. I found it to be a fairly good machine, had the power etc. But the inline water heater was a bit temeramental and it was difficult to clean out the waste tank.
I've been looking at the Alltec Advantage to replace it. 2x 145mm 3 stage vac,135 psi pump ,3kw heater and splits into two for ease of movement.
Regards rob -s
P.s, also a second-hand CFR PRO 400
Posted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 14 March 2004Hi Mike,
Maybe they have moved the pump - the one I looked at (about 4 years ago old) had the pump on the metal grill but directly under the vac exhaust.
On the ventilation issue the main concern was when the motors are swiched off (hot soak condition), being mounted at the top and with only ventilation at the base, they were sitting in hot air with no active cooling.
As you probably know, most motor failures due to coil-burn ocurr during the hot soak period. As I wrote, this is far from uncommon on HWE machines.
I have had to weight the shut-off ball on many machines to reduce sensitivity.
Posted by carpet_bright (carpet_bright), 14 March 2004No real problems with my Cheyenne other than weight!
It's a good portable but not so portable upstairs. I use my steameasy up and Cheyenne down where possible.
The large solution tank is another plus compared to other machines.
Paul - Carpet Bright
Posted by chrisw (chrisw), 14 March 2004I got my Cheyenne last year, the vac outlet had been diverted for me, so no problem with pump being overheated. Have renewed the vacs and the pump brushes, dead easy even if you aren't sure what to do! Waste tank cleans ok with a spray hose. Take care filling solution tank as lack of patience leads to water ending up near pump electrics, but as I say with care this is not a problem. Big brute of a machine but very robust, using 50ft of hose you shouldn't need to take inside house too often. Inline heater is crap though , looking to replace mine, any ideas what is suitable as a replacement, anyone? To sum up, I'm very happy with mine
Posted by lenpg (Len Gribble), 14 March 2004Chris
Your comments on filling are well justified it not only applies to this machine but to all portables. A good machine used one for a week while mine was on the road so to speak, but not too sure about the 50ft of hose?
Posted by Lee_Pettengell (Lee_Pettengell), 14 March 2004Cheyenne has now been discontinued and replaced by the Steempro Powerplus with a solution tank of 65litres 2x3 stage vacs 100psi pump. List price is £1895, the in line heaters on the Steempro range have been improved. I know of many operators who use between 50-100ft of hose on these machines.
Posted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 14 March 2004Chris,
For about £500 you can get an Ashbys Steamate.
It's much less temperamental and not being attatched to the machine, can be placed in the soution line near to where you are working rather than have 50ft of hose with water cooling off behind you.
Posted by lenpg (Len Gribble), 14 March 2004Lee
I was not having a pop at your machine but this type of portable which includes mine running at 50ft which I questioned, then you replied some are running at 50 to 100ft on 2x3 vac and a 100psi pump, itís the distance that what I questioned, not being a Tec buff surely a 2x3 and 100psi machine would lose vacuum lift & pressure at this distance.
Lee I stand to be corrected I wait your reply with anticipation
Posted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 14 March 2004Len,
You are right to question 100ft hose run with such a machine. It is useable but the suction loss would be noticable.
Another factor is that the internal volume of this length of hose means that if the wand seal to carpet is broken, it will take several seconds to develop full potential vacuum, so unless wand tecnique is modified to accomodate, the first section of each stroke will be less effective.
I have not tested this, but feel that with 50ft of hose, this machine would still out-perform a Steameasy with 25ft.
Posted by lenpg (Len Gribble), 14 March 2004John
I have no doubt that this machine will out perform some on the market on vacuum what about pressure at the wand?
Posted by squeaky (squeaky), 15 March 2004Lee,
It is interesting to see that the Cheyenne has been replaced by the Steampro power plus.
Although it has'nt been altered on the Uk website.
I need a machine that can stay outside and run 50 to 100 ft of pipe.
I was very interested in the Cross American recoil 3 but the Uk price puts me off ( considering the price in the states)
How can I get more specs on the steampro power plus.
Posted by Dave_Lee (Dave_Lee), 15 March 2004I used to own a Cheyanne 3. Got it new 4 years ago.
Great machine, I also got a new Pro Plus a yeasr later to use alongside the Cheyanne. Cheyanne had twin 3 stage (smaller) vacs in series -Pro Plus had twin 3 stage (Larger) vacs in parrallel. The Cheyanne had more pull than the Pro Plus but the Pro Plus vacs and pump lasted longer. I liked it but my biggest gripe was the downward vac exhaust which did exit directly over the pump untill I dverted it. Because the hot humid air expelled through the grill at the base of the machine - if it was parked on a cold floor like tiles, vinyl etc. the floor would get really wet with condensation.
Posted by Nigel_W (Nigel_W), 15 March 2004Mark,
You are looking for the impossible! A portable machine that will run 50 to 100 ft but costs less than £2450. Let me know if you find one and I will take one too!!
Posted by lenpg (Len Gribble), 15 March 2004Nigel
What Mark is looking for is mission imposable, but I donít blame him, isnít that what our customer expect from us and we expect from our supplier!
Posted by Lee_Pettengell (Lee_Pettengell), 15 March 2004Dear all
The details of the S'Pro Powerplus are available in the new Prochem catalogue. I know of many carpet cleaners who use 50-100 ft of hose with either their S'Pro Powermax and Powerplus!
Posted by Nigel_W (Nigel_W), 15 March 2004Lee,
A couple of questions spring to mind:-
Have you ever cleaned a carpet with a Powermax at 100 foot? If so were you happy with the performance?
I have a Powermax as well and I would not use it with more than 25 foot. I like the machine because it is quiet and looks good. However I think to claim it is capable of cleaning to a high standard at 50 to 100 foot is completely ridiculous
Posted by Lee_Pettengell (Lee_Pettengell), 15 March 2004Nigel
I have cleaned an aircraft using 50ft of hose with a Powermax and I know of other cleaners who have used 100ft of hose. If you have the machine then use it to its full potential. Just because its sold with 25ft doesnt mean it can only be used with 25ft.
Posted by lenpg (Len Gribble), 15 March 2004Lee
Sorry Lee knowing is one-thing facts are another. I know he jump the lights killed the dog as he told me! This is not a beat-up on my part I own three of your machines and am very happy with them.
You only have to look at any manufactures brochure, on the tm side cleaning up too! But never states this on the portable side. I ask why?
Posted by Lee_Pettengell (Lee_Pettengell), 15 March 2004Sorry you do not believe me Len, ring Prochem and speak to John in the service dept.
Posted by lenpg (Len Gribble), 15 March 2004Lee
Sorry Iím asking you! Are you not the voice of your company on this forum? Donít pass the buck to John who is your service manage and not a cc, the word theory comes to mind this is not deeming John. I note you state that you have cleaned an aircraft, was the carpet like some customers who have never had it cleaned or a pub running hoses at 50 to 100ft? Please define full potential; you still have not answered my question re advertisement in brochures.
Also Lee please take care in the use of the words ďI knowĒ is it fact or hearsay? The word to my knowledge would suit your replies, that way you have an escape route.
I read it as I see it and yes Iím sob but I mean no harm.
Posted by Dave_Parry (Dave Parry), 15 March 2004Len,
sob is that
a) silly old b*gg*r
b) Stubborn old B*sta*d
Posted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 15 March 2004Lee,
I have to say that I am firmly with Nigel and Len on the 100ft matter, regardless of what other people do.
I know people who will say that they use a single vac macine with a 60psi pump and thing that it is the bees knees.
Yes, you could use this machine with a 100ft hose but the perfomance would not be what I would consider acceptable. To think otherwise is simply dilusional.
Posted by Dave_Parry (Dave Parry), 16 March 2004To confirm what others have said,
I have a Ninja with uprated Vacs and 135 psi pump.
I have used this with 75 ft hose and had acceptable results. Have managed to reach the 2nd floor of a large house, with m/c in hallwayand steam mate on last 25ft to keep heat up. Have never had to and would not use above that length.
Posted by mike_halliday (mike_halliday), 16 March 2004If no one believes that you can go above 75ft with 2x3stage vacs that how can anyone believe that adding an extra 2 stage vac with allow hose lengths of 150ft
as stated by the recoils 3
Plus if your going this length should'nt the machine come with 2inch hose
Posted by squeaky (squeaky), 16 March 2004I had a long chat with my Prochem supplier yesterday about the Power plus, he has sold quite a few of them and says that many of his customers use the power plus with up to 100 ft of pipe with excellent results.
I did not prompt him on this, the information was offered by him , I have been dealing with him for years and have no reason to doubt his word having purchased most of my equipment through him and never been let down or disappointed.
Most of the work that I do with the machine that I eventually buy will be used with 25/50 foot , so the powerplus looks good especially at the price that I have been quoted, £1000 cheaper than the Recoil 3 (and before I have a contract taken out on me I am NOT saying that the recoil 3 is not an excellent machine)I will have a demo before I buy anything so as long as the machine does what I want it to do then I will buy it.
Posted by Ed_Valentine (Ed Valentine), 16 March 2004CFM's & AirFlow is the name of the game, gentlemen.
And, YES, yes, yes, the RECOIL-3HP will go the distance (100-150-200 feet) because of the specific design and engineering. Personally, this is something I have proven since the early 70's. And, Nigel Woodhead has also experienced this concept too.
But, I ask your patience until March 31st. (Unfortunately) that is all I can comment on these boards unless I want my comments to be deleted.
Good Fortune to all our friends across the pond;
Posted by Nigel_W (Nigel_W), 16 March 2004Mike,
You are abolutely correct - adding a 2 stage vac does not allow you to run 150 - 200 foot of hose on a Recoil. In my view (I stress that this is only my view) A Recoil performs well at 75 foot. It is acceptable at 100 foot. Above this I would not consider without some kind of vac booster. (Which Cross Amervcian do sell).
I do hear of people using a Recoil (without vac booster) at 200 foot. I tend to view this in the same light as Powermax users getting excellent performance with 100 foot of hose.
You are quite right to consider the Powermax as an alternative to the Recoil. It is an excellent machine - I have both a Powermax and a Recoil. For the extra money you get:-
0 - 350 psi pump (2 galls per min maximum flow). THis allows longer hose runs and gives potential for better rinsing of carpets.
A more powerful vacuum set up that allows longer hose runs.
An extra 25 foot of vac/solution hose.
On the downside the Recoil is noisier and I don't think the wand is as good as the Prochem 2 jet.
It really is a case of testing both (and others) and taking a view of what suits your business best. We all work in different markets and there is no best machine for all cleaners.
Good luck in your choice.
Posted by Mike_Boxall (Mike_Boxall), 16 March 2004Just to summarise here, don't we all agree that the whole issue is subjective. All these machines can be used with considerable lengths of hoses it's just whether or not we are happy with the performance.
As a rule of thumb with the Prochem range I tell customers that you can double the standard length of hoses with no noticeable difference in performance and you can triple the length of hose with an acceptable difference in performance. The Steempro Powermax and Powerplus (both with 2 x 3-stage motors) come as standard with 25ft of hoses and I'd be entirely confident running them at 50ft but would certainly make people aware of the drop in performance at 75ft. I've never used one with 100ft but don't doubt that, although slower, it would be acceptable to some.
(Nigel, how many power leads does your recoil have?)
Posted by Nigel_W (Nigel_W), 16 March 2004Mike
Posted by lenpg (Len Gribble), 16 March 2004Dave
Itís C plus some more
As you say the Steempro comes with 25ft of hose as standard as dose all quality portables on the tm side are sold with min 100ft but give a max distance in the brochures where as the potable side give 0. Thatís the point I was trying to make
Posted by Lee_Pettengell (Lee_Pettengell), 16 March 2004Dear Len
How are you? First of all regarding question about ad in brochures, please could you remind me about the question again. Secondly although I work for Prochem I am not the voice for Prochem, I enjoy this industry and I enjoy conversing with other cc's, it is how we all learn. If I can help anybody with info then that is a bonus, I do not go on and post such things as use this for that or use ffr for this or Prochem is great!!!! This forum enables cc's to help each other it is not hear to slate others because they used the wrong word which you don't approve of. People can only be helped if they want to be helped. Regarding the S'Pro question: you can use up to 100ft of hose without losing performance.
Posted by Lee_Pettengell (Lee_Pettengell), 17 March 2004Sorry I ran out of room!
Nigel W I am glad that you are happy with your machine, it would not though be "ridiculous" to run extra hose from it, if this was the case then why would we sell extension hoses?
Does this now make me an SOB!
Posted by pre-vac_Nick (HolmansUKLTD), 17 March 2004Hello people,
I use my steampro 2000 with 75ft of hose and allthough you do lose slight suction power as long as youve pre-vaced and pre sprayed there is really no problem apart from at least 2-3 vaccume passes..
If you start at the top of a 3 story house with the extension hoses and finish up at the bottom hallway after packing away your machine the top floor is dry!! so in a way there is no performance drop?? if you see what i mean!!??
just thought i add my 2 pennith worth
Posted by Ian_G. (Ian_Gourlay), 17 March 2004Does the Trade Description Act Apply to Carpet Cleaning Machines.
Because many of the brochues I have seen for portables indicate that they achieve max performasnce with 100foot hose.
Having 50foot hose myself I do not know if it is true.
Do not know if I would get better results at 25 feet.
Also are Carpet Cleaners covered by Trades Description Act.
Or is it an industry where exagirated claims are standard
Posted by mark_roberts (mark_roberts), 17 March 2004Over the past four years in this business I have learned to take with a pinch of salt the claims of ALL manufactures. They are selling you something and will make all sorts of claims, not necessarly tells lies but stretching the truth.
I take on board the opinions of others BUT try not to buy unless I can use beforehand as one mans tool is another mans scrap.
I have a Ninja. It works very well at 50ft but I notice a slight drop in overall power. At 75ft its very noticable. Would'nt dream of 100ft as I would'nt be happy with the results. I've had to use my old 2x2 stage vac machine today and its crap compared to the Ninja even at 25ft.
I'm very interested in the recoil BUT am going to demo it on 31st as I need to see for myself if it really is the machine so many say it is.
I've been looking at electric machines in the states to be van mounted to run max 200ft. I'm still not sure if such a machine exists unless you have 3plus leads which in my opinion is too much hassle. However Mick Halidays machine looks interesting!!!
Posted by Dave_Lee (Dave_Lee), 18 March 2004Hi all,
Dont know if anyones interested but you might have a look at Steamways web site and click on 'Portables'.
† † † † www.steamway.com
This page is a thread posted to the cleanitup forum at www.cleanitup.co.uk and archived here for reference. To jump to the archive index please follow this link.