Carpet Cleaning Issues - Carpet construction, upholstery cleaning, stain removal, equipment, events, etc.
National Carpet Cleaners Association
Posted by Robert_O (Robert Olifent), 17 February 2004Hi
I just wondered what other professional carpet cleaners thoughts were towards the National Carpet Cleaners Association.
I personally always thought it important to support my trade organisation, and feel like I have got a great deal from it.
I know that some people will have similar views and some will have opposite views, but it would be interesting to hear comments from both sides, especially if they can be put forward constructively.
1. What would you want an association to do for you?
2. If you don't appreciate the services offered by the association, why? How could this be put right to please you?
3. Is it to expensive
4. Is it value for money?
5. Does the NCCA †logo carry enough weight and recognition in promotional material?
Clearly I am happy with being a member for the last 13 years, but I just thought it would make an interesting discussion/debate.
It might also help guide the NCCA (if they see this feedback) on future policy from the very people they are here to serve.
I am sure your 2 two penneth would be much appreciated, from a newbies point of view and an oldies point of view!!!
Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 17 February 2004Hi Robert
Like yourself I have been a member of the NCCA for a good many years ...and Yes, I too believe in supporting the only independant Trade Association.
Over the years I have discovered that there are those who will support such an organisation and those who are dead against and will not support it at any price..
That's a personal choice.
Posted by Ian_G. (Ian_Gourlay), 17 February 2004As I have said before, I feel they should acedit prior learning.
Have distant learning along the lines of th OU.
Be more active in the PR dept.
But thinks its a good organization.
Posted by mike_halliday (mike_halliday), 17 February 2004One piont i'll pass on is something that was said to me at the weekend by a new carpet cleaner who was thinking of joining.
he said the initial cost of the compulsery training course and the years membership was too much for him to afford ( he also mentioned the added cost of the hotel when attending the 2 day course)
perhaps a reduced first years membership when paid at the same time as the training course fee.
I let my membership run out because a local carpet cleaner was advertising being a member and he was rubbish so i thought this reflected on me.
although i'm seriously thinking off rejoining this years
Posted by Robert_O (Robert Olifent), 17 February 2004Great points
you never know someone might take some of these suggestions on board.
I can really appreciate the difficulties of a newly forming business, and limited funds.
Distance learning and training through the net, now I would have thought that is something worth looking into, even as an ongoing upkeep of existing members education.
Posted by lenpg (Len Gribble), 17 February 2004
Will you have to re-sit the test?
From my previous posts any newbie wishing to start up cc training by the NCCA is a must and Iím a non-member, but I agree with Mike the cost can be prohibitive to some.
Defiantly agree with Robert if the NCCA went down that route I would join.
Posted by Robert_O (Robert Olifent), 17 February 2004If you are taking a driving test and you book a test, the examiner won't ask you if you have had any lessons, or how many tests have you taken.
He will assess you on your conduct and competance within your test and your theory knowledge.
Likewise with the NCCA, if a professional carpet cleaner can effectively prove through examination that he or she is competant enough already, then why should it be necessary to make them go on more 'driving lessons' at significant cost in terms of being away from business, lodgings and course fees?
Although I believe that everyone should refresh themselves with a continuation of training, even the older seasoned cleaners (including me).
It is not as straight forward as that. Where would the examination take place for security, and fair play? For arguments sake one organisation employing or franchising could get hold of the test papers and give the answers to all of the others for speed and efficient entry into membership, blow the standards!
I think that it is a good idea in principle but it is not just as easy as that, as high standards have to be maintained in the entry of membership.
I am sure that there would be some way around this, and at one time the NCCA did actually recognise certain other professional organisations training. I believe that some of the standards went down in certain areas and this facility was withdrawn.
Posted by Nigel_W (Nigel_W), 17 February 2004
I am an example of someone who is neither for or against the NCCA. I am not an NCCA member and for the first 5 years of running my business I don't even think I knew it existed. ( Now been going 15 years) Once I was established I could not see an obvious reason to join. I have never lost a job to an NCCA member, never been asked by a client which associations I am in. Lately I have been mindful to join but mainly to enjoy the networking with other carpet cleaners. Shouldn't there be a more compelling reason for me to join? I would like to see more training courses aimed at experienced cleaners e.g. advanced stain removal, carpet repair. Maybe also local get togethers of NCCA members.e.g. London members.
Anyway the forms are on my desk and I am sure I will get round to it soon.
Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 18 February 2004Hi Guys
As Robert has said...interesting comments.
The NCCA provide editorial in various forms frequently to the magazines/press etc. †The various magazine editors 'choose' what they want to include and very often 'cherry pick' tems from within a larger piece. If the item doesn't fit into their schedules then it is filed.
Directors of the NCCA can often be heard on local radio stations promoting the professional side of the industry and obviously promoting the use of NCCA members.
I do take Mike's point... there are those who do go on courses and some do join the NCCA....fortunately most are good cleaners but the odd ones seem to forget all they have been taught on the courses and drastically cut corners to the detriment of the job they are doing.
It is very difficult to police this type of action...I am aware that the NCCA have expelled members who have failed to meet the 'code of practice' in their work.
To use the driving comparison....we all have passed the driving test at some point...then why is the standard of driving on the roads today so bad?
The possibility of distance learning has been discussed within the NCCA... we shall have to see what develops.
Posted by squeaky (squeaky), 18 February 2004I have recently sent for the NCCA pack,but have been put off by the initial costs.
I have been cleaning carpets for a long time , I have also never lost a job (to my knowledge) to a NCCA member , I have never attemped to clean a carpet that I did not think that I could do a first class job on , if I was unsure the customer would have been told before I started.
I have been on various courses (mainly Prochem) and have all the manuals etc that I think is necessary for referance.
My customers would not know what NCCA means so why pay the money?
This is of course only my opinion which I believe I am entitled to.
I would prefer to use my money for better equipment to make the job easier and the clean superior.
Posted by Tony_Browning (Tony_Browning), 18 February 2004Hi!
Why are you considering rejoining the NCCA?
Do you know something we don't?
Posted by Christal_Clean (Bryan H), 18 February 2004I would have to agree with those of you that question the cost of membership. I applied to join probably around 10 years ago with the object of distancing myself from the 'splash & dash' boys, but found the total costs in the first year, including loss of earnings,
hotels etc. too prohibitive.
I have honestly never been asked by any potential client, domestic or commercial as to whether I belong to any professional body.
I am regularly asked though how long I have been in the business
& when I tell them, currently 19 years this seems to reassure them, & they assume I must know what I'm doing.
Thankfully most of the time I do ! but I realise from browsing this forum over the last few months that many of you have a greater knowledge than myself, & I have already learned a great deal more in a very short time.
I still believe though in an ideal situation, all of us who consider ourselves to be 'professionals' should belong to and support a 'Professional Organisation such as the NCCA.
Posted by Scots_cleaner (Scots_cleaner), 18 February 2004Hi all,
I looked at joining the NCCA 4 years ago but the cost of training, Hotel, lost income, Travel down from Fife etc etc etc .
My point to all training providers is why not once a year have some form of training north of the border.
Posted by As-New_Cleaning (As-New_Cleaning), 18 February 2004Another option is to obtain certification through the IICRC and then you just have to send a copy of your certificate in with the application form to the NCCA and you dont have to repeat the 2 day training and you also save the travel costs to Leicester and any accomodation expense.
Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 18 February 2004Hi Darren
Yes ..joining the NCCA can be done via the IICRC courses but don't forget that each of the IICRC courses are for two days making four days in total (carpet/Upholstery) as against the NCCA two day course.
If it's down to costs then the NCCA works out to be more cost effective.
My own view is that any training is a small price to pay for something that is going to earn you a living for, hopfully, a great many years.
Posted by Nigel_W (Nigel_W), 18 February 2004What about if the NCCA operated a 2 tier scheme. Scheme 1 is train and join pretty much as now. Scheme 2 is train on a continuous basis ( like iicrc continuing education credits) and agree to follow certain approved procedures ( eg inspection reports/ fabric testing etc). In exchange you become a master cleaner and get to participate in the NCCA special low cost insurance scheme. The way the cost of liability insurance is heading it may pay for the professional cleaner to be in a scheme like this.
Good idea or doo doo?
Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 18 February 2004Hi Nigel
Thank you for your comments.... The NCCA have for some time been looking into a 'structured training programme' along the lines you have suggested.
It came up against some problems the way it was originally conceived and it is now being thought through to give everyone a chance of reaching higher levels of achievement within their own particular field of operations.
As an aside to other posts concerning NCCA cost outlay... the NCCA have a scheme whereby the costs may be spread over six months this also applies to membership fees.
Posted by As-New_Cleaning (As-New_Cleaning), 18 February 2004Hi Derek,
I too am a huge advocate of training, the more the better. However when I first started looking into it I was under the impression you had to do both lots of courses to gain entry into both organisations. It was only after a discussion with Paul Pearce that he pointed out this was not so, I felt obliged to post incase anybody else was under the same impression.
Posted by Robert_O (Robert Olifent), 18 February 2004Best kept secret No. 2 is out in the open now folks.
Posted by As-New_Cleaning (As-New_Cleaning), 18 February 2004
Oh No!! was I the leak?
I had best watch my back from now on, they might send a hit squad down to deal with me.
Posted by Ian_G. (Ian_Gourlay), 18 February 2004Glad the distant and ongoing learning is now being thought about.
Did not realise you had to pass both IIRC courses to gain admision.
Although Paul Pearce seems a jolly nice chap he does seam to have a monopoly on the training as he is the trainer for both methods.
Interesting idea about spreading the cost , not many people know that.
Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 19 February 2004Hi Ian
It's great that you are all asking these questions as there appears to be many misconceptions about the NCCA.
Yes, you can spread payments over six months...a scheme was set up a few years ago in order to do this and so help new members.
To become a member you must either;-
1. Attend the two day NCCA course which is usually held in Leicester
2. Have been on the IICRC courses ...attendance at both the Carpet and Upholstery courses are acceptable. If only one of these has been attended then the NCCA will accept the one and allow the person concerned to take a written examination for the other. This saves a prospective member from an additional two day course.
In all cases there are examinations at the end of each course. Don't be worried about this, help is always available for those who may be dyslexic or have other visual problems
Considering the content of the courses it really is good value for the money.
Posted by Happyeater (Happyeater), 21 February 2004Just back of the course tonight. It is good value, I learned a lot, possible as much from talking to fellow carpet cleaners as from the actual course.
The course was quite intensive, very informative and both Paul and Pawlo are good presenters with an enourmous amount of skill and experience. All in all two worthwhile days.
Nice people there too
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