Window Cleaning Issues - Canvassing, pole systems, pricing, problems, etc.
WFP questions?Posted by freegarda (Reflective Property Services), 5 April 2004
Reading on here about everyone going over to wfp, theres a few things I dont understand.
I get that it likely does a better job etc etc, but I dont understand how you can get to all the windows, particularly on domestic? Like for instance if a customer has an flat-roof extension on the back of the house, how can you get to the windows above. Normally, I'd just climb up the ladder and walk on the roof, but you cant do that with a wfp?
Also, theres an estate i do where the upstairs flats have got french doors, with railings in front up to waist height so people dont fall out. On the ladders I put the squeegee between the bars, you wouldnt get your wfp brush between would you?
So how do you wfp users get round things like these? Any comments appreciated.
RE filteration, do you pump the water from your tank through your RO & DI units, then up the pole, or do you purify the water before you pump it into the tank before you set off for the day? Either/or, can both be done? Just thinking about those backpack systems, im guessing you wouldnt be carrying round the RO unit with you, must weigh a ton 
Just wondering how you do it?Posted by David_Harris (David_Harris), 5 April 2004
I have also wondered how the WFP guys would clean windows from the ground where there is a small wall surrounding the balcony, on flats. With a squeegee and ladders like you I would climb up to the wall hop over onto the balcony and clean the windows behind. Obviously I can only clean flats up to two floors high with a squeegee perhaps these flats are too small for WFP people. From what I have seen they may well do a quicker job, but I would certainly not say a better job is achieved by a WFP.Posted by replacement (Justin R), 5 April 2004
I am an WFP user.
I was thinking today how to you reach over bushes to get windows? or do you not do them like they do here?
Also how do you clean them 3rd 4th even 5th floor windows?
What about cleaning them windows over the conservatory?
With a wfp we can clean all the windows you can but can clean a hell of alot more that you cant. Best bit i feel totally safe and out of harms way.
Best you two have a search on the forum and look at others web sites to understand it abit more, nearly all them questions have been answered before on either this site or others.
Cheers
Justin
Ps You can get small brushes for them railing guards, and your be suprised that you can turn the wfp at an angle to slide that in between, abit like you would with you squeegee.
Work Safe Earn More Own an WFP
Work at Height and Earn More...Posted by Silly_Philly (Philip Hanson), 5 April 2004
Quote:I get that it likely does a better job etc etc, but I dont understand how you can get to all the windows, particularly on domestic? Like for instance if a customer has an flat-roof extension on the back of the house, how can you get to the windows above. Normally, I'd just climb up the ladder and walk on the roof, but you cant do that with a wfp?
I worried about that, but if you have a long enough pole, its usually quite easy to get at the windows over a flat roof. The angle of the brush can be adjusted so that it still hits the window flat-on. Also, sometimes you can stand to one side of the roof/conservatory/extension and get the window by holding the pole at an angle. (though this is more difficult)
There will be windows you simply can't do with the pole, and its your choice whether you want to carry some ladders with you in case you need them, or just to tell the customer they can't be done. When using ladders, we've all told customers that some windows cant be done, for example over steep rooves, and the same principle works with poles. Some you just cant do, but on the whole, you can do more windows than you can with a ladder.
Quote:I have also wondered how the WFP guys would clean windows from the ground where there is a small wall surrounding the balcony, on flats. With a squeegee and ladders like you I would climb up to the wall hop over onto the balcony and clean the windows behind.
The solution to this problem is below:
No, just kidding! Again theres a choice to make, either carry ladders or stop doing them. I sometimes carry ladders for access (not to work from though) but I'm trying to avoid it whenever possible.
Quote:Also, theres an estate i do where the upstairs flats have got french doors, with railings in front up to waist height so people dont fall out. On the ladders I put the squeegee between the bars, you wouldnt get your wfp brush between would you?
Houses like this are getting more and more common, and I have about 6 of them. The brush adjusts to fit under these railings, the only problem is that you have to stand directly underneath and you do get a bit wet. Other than that, they are just as easy to do as any others.
Quote:RE filteration, do you pump the water from your tank through your RO & DI units, then up the pole, or do you purify the water before you pump it into the tank before you set off for the day? Either/or, can both be done? Just thinking about those backpack systems, im guessing you wouldnt be carrying round the RO unit
Using the RO membranes uses a LOT of water, sometimes 2/3 of the water is rejected and goes to drain. Also RO membranes produce water slowly and not at high pressure. So no system uses water that comes directly from the RO membranes. However, DI resin tanks can produce water fast, at pressure and with no waste, so here some possible set-ups:
Note: A purity of Zero TDS is needed for window cleaning
The Pictures used here are pure2o systems, and are by the permission of pure2o
Case 1 : A 1000ltr van-mounted system using RO and DI
The vertical white cylinder you see here is the RO membrane, the blue cylinder is the tank containing the DI resin. The small grey and blue cylinders are smaller pre-filters (RO membranes are delicate and can be ruined by particulates. These filters remove them)
The system is connected to a tap, and using the RO membranes only, fills the tank. The water is now approx 9ppm TDS. When the pump is switched on, the water goes through the DI resin tanks BEFORE being delivered to the pole, bringing it down to Zero TDS. (I think this is the way Ionic's and pure2o systems work, but Reuben or Carl could put me right?) Now, there's no reason why you couldn't fill the tank using both membranes and DI, and have the water delivered to the pole with no further treatment, but this way you can be absolutley certain that the water at the pole is ZERO even if the water in the tank has been there for a long time and the TDS has crept up. Also, if on-site filling is required quickly, the tank can be filled with ordinary water, and still be used as the DI resin will bring the TDS down to zero.
Case 2 : a portable trolley or backpack system
The RO membranes and DI tanks are used together to produce a quantity of pure water before it needs to be used. This is then transported to the work site in tanks or barrels, which is then used in the system. (as you see justin using his omnitrolley in his post above) No water treatment takes place on site.
Case 3 : On site De-ionization
A DI tank is connected to a an on-site water supply. The pole then connects directly to the DI tank and the water is purified as it is used. This method is not used very often, as it requires a water supply, and as only DI is being used the resin will be exhausted fairly quickly.
-PhilipPosted by replacement (Justin R), 6 April 2004
Note: A purity of Zero TDS is needed for window cleaning
Phili thats wrong that part, you can use water upto and TDS reading of 010. I even seen somewhere that an TDS reading of 015 still produces spot free window cleaning.
I have not come across any windows i cant reach with an Pole yet!!! Might just be the area i am in.
Have fun
JustinPosted by freegarda (Reflective Property Services), 7 April 2004
Nice one, 
thanks for the advice guys, I think I understand it a lot better now. Certainly given me a lot of food for thought. 
CheersPosted by simonb (simonb), 7 April 2004
R U reflecting on it?
SimonPosted by easycleanwindows (easycleanwindows), 7 April 2004
To put you right you can use your tds reading up to a maximun of 35 before you need to change your DI cartridge.
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