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Need Advice

Posted by highstandard (Peterdirector), 27 February 2004
I had a worker that walked out of his job without giving any notice, I wrote to him twice asking why he didn't turn up for work but he didn't reply. I heard from him two days ago he was asking for the 2 days I owe him I told him to fill out a time sheet which I sent him in the post but he won't return it. where do I stand on this,I need to send him p45. Can anyone help
Posted by lenpg (Len Gribble), 27 February 2004
Smiley Smiley

Somewhat confused why did you write to him? What wrong with the telephone?

You have gave a bland statement re this employee a lot more information is required before any one can comment.


Posted by martin_606 (martin_606), 27 February 2004
Hi peter

tough one this

(bloody staff!)

whatever you do he must get his P45 as that is the law.

as he walked out without notice and put you in a bind i would charge him the cost of any letters, calls tax, NI plus whatever it cost to replace him, i.e. advertising for new staff. calls letters etc, etc. If there was anything left which i would try to make sure there wasn't then let him have that.

good luck


Martin Cool
Posted by highstandard (Peterdirector), 27 February 2004
Len His phone was cut off writing a letter was the only way I could get in touch with him. He won't fill in his Time Sheet so I can Pay him, I need this so I can put The up todate amount on his p45. I think I will contact The Inland Revenue.
Posted by Happyeater (Happyeater), 27 February 2004
Had a lot of experience in this stuff. Only if you have a clause in his contract can you with hold and money from him. He must have agreed to it too, by signing and returning his contract with the clause on it.

If you don't have a cast iron clause. Pay him the money and forget it. Citizens advice will tell him to fill out an IT1 (Independent Tribunal 1) form which will cost you in time and eventually a half day sitting in a court waiting room. And you'll lose.

Count it as a bad job and then change your paperwork. I learned the hard way.
Posted by WavieDavie (WavieDavie), 27 February 2004
Join the Federation of Small Businesses ASAP and that goes for everyone - one man businesses upwards.

For self plus two employees, the sub is 100 per year or just under 2 per week, or 40p per day and will pay for itself as soon as you get any hassle with employee related problems. There is free legal advice on many topics - the employment hotline is 24 hours per day.

That means that Peter could have phoned them straight away, no matter what time, and got advice on what to put in the first letter, so he wouldn't have needed to send a second.

Do yourself a favour - click on the link. You'll thank me later.

No connection, except as a very satisfied member who has had occasion to use their services a few times.
Posted by pristineclean (pristineclean), 28 February 2004
Hi Peterdirector
I think writing to your ex employee was entirely the right thing to do, since it gives you a reasonable defence against any claim that might subsequently be made for constructive dismissal if he, as so many appear to be doing now, decides to chance his arm with an industrial tribunal claim.
Unlike the phone, there's no disputing what and what was not said by you, and you are now in a position where you can provide evidence that you made a reasonable attempt to establish the nature of your employee's dissatisfaction.
With all respect to Martin, my personal decision would be to pay him all earned monies to date based on an estimate of what his hours were likely to have been. Although there are statutory instruments which allow employers to withhold wages earned against stock and cash shortages, I don't think that they'd apply in this case, and I view them personally as morally repugnant.

Posted by martin_606 (martin_606), 2 March 2004
Hi Guys

my post was a personal thought but i would of course check with the correct authorities as to my position.

I am about to enter the staff minefield again and am thinking along the lines of 'agency staff'.

they do come in more expensive because of the agency fee on top but they are interviewed, application formed, refrenced etc and they also take care of payroll Grin

Now, this is again a personal choice i am thinking about. it is as with anything never guarenteed. I am hoping it will cut out most of the hassle and i would have the option of taking them on to the books full time after 13 weeks if i wish...



Martin Cool
Posted by pristineclean (pristineclean), 3 March 2004
Hi Martin

If you have the option of taking on the staff to your payroll after 13 weeks without paying a salary commission to the agency, then (in my experience anyway), you're being offered a very good deal.

My personal belief is that agencies tend to offer staff much more on the basis of availability than ability, and I'd confidently say that I've been entirely happy with around 30% of the agency staff I've employed.

I think the efficiency of agency staff is very strongly dependent on the amount of supervision that you're able to commit to them, and if you have the resources available to offer this then you're likely to get value for your money.

Incidentally, I sincerely hope that I didn't offend you in offering an alternative viewpoint to your post. Since starting my cleaning business last year, the range of opinions and expertise, including your own, that I've drawn on using this message board have been invaluable, and I don't think peterdirectors issue, like so many others, has one right and one wrong answer.


Posted by martin_606 (martin_606), 4 March 2004
Hi callum

No offence taken at all mate Wink

we all have different views on things, and while we can all offer advice we do still need professional advice also.

when people i.e. staff take the 'you know what'  it makes my blood boil...

a lot of staff are 'i want some of that', all of that' and 'i want it now' and try to sue you if something goes wrong.

Just got sky and the ads are full of compensation fever...
sue them and get cash we'll help you... yeah right.

We, the small biz owner seem to be a cash cow for the compensation culture, we seem to be funding the whole venture and lining the pockets of solictitors and lazy people after a free ride because they are unable to think or act for themselves...............

Phew! rant over...


Martin Cool
Posted by pristineclean (pristineclean), 6 March 2004
Hi Martin
I couldn't agree with you more, and find it hard to talk about the compensation culture without swearing.

Last year, a former employee who I took on through TUPE managed to get x thousand pounds for being stupid enough to trip over some boxes and break her wrist because, and all witness statements agree to this, she was looking and talking to someone behind her. You probably know this already, but the liability for that claim fell to the new company although the previous company insurers were the ones who actually paid out. That said, I still had to waste time on form filling and interviews until the matter was settled.

So no sympathy from me for the time wasting employees, and I've become an expert in the damn with faint praise type of reference Grin


PS I've just found, to my amusement, that a word was censored on my post. Memo to the forum moderators: THAT'S NOT A SWEAR WORD!!! [Middle English dampnen, from Old French dampner, from Latin damnre, to condemn, inflict loss upon, from damnum, loss.]

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