Window Cleaning Issues - Canvassing, pole systems, pricing, problems, etc.
Window cleaner that refuses to go up ladderPosted by Paulcoz33 (Paulcoz33), 16 December 2003
I have a family member working for me who is scared to go up the ladder. He is so trust worthy and as im expanding i want to put him in charge and branch off myself, He has a good relationship with me and my customers.But im starting to think i could'nt leave him doing the job on his own he goes up but dont like it."what do i do" in this predicament.Posted by shinebright (shinebright), 16 December 2003
BUY A WATER FED POLE SYSTEMPosted by Paulcoz33 (Paulcoz33), 16 December 2003
Cost ?Posted by Polepro (Polepro), 17 December 2003
Whats the cost of losing a good man or losing work because he won't do the upstairs windows or not being able to grow your business? Check out www.ionicsystems.com or www.pure2o.co.uk for prices on waterfed pole systems.
TomPosted by Londoner (Londoner), 17 December 2003
Round where I live there used to be a window cleaner who only did bungalows. Its true and he was quite famous. One of the Sunday papers did a story on him. They made out he was frightened to go up ladders but the truth was he had gammy leg and as he got older he couldn't do the ladders.
On a more serious note, what sort of ladders are you using? Its amazing how much safer you feel on a good A frame compared to a whippy old B+Q cheapo.Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 17 December 2003
Why dont you get another person, and let them do the upstairs and your family member do the bottoms 
Posted by sean_rimmer (Dom Matrix), 17 December 2003
A pole system may be the answer, but invest wisely, ifs its cheap and not off a limited company, when it goes wrong, they leave you high and dry...remember, if they're not limited, they're cowboys with nothing to lose..! 
Posted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 17 December 2003
Hi Dom,
How do you come to that conclusion then 
A sole trader has far more to lose if they have to close business than a limited company 
Its all down to personal choice who you buy your pole from but to call someone a cowboy because they are not limited is ridiculous.
StevePosted by shinnyshinner (shinnyshinner), 17 December 2003
What a load off crap.
I'll second that Steve,
Dom if you read some of the other posts you will see that people have been hung out to dry (as you call it)from the bigger limited company's, and had a better service from smaller companys to ammend faullts who have not even sold the equipment.
AlanPosted by Majestic (Majestic), 17 December 2003
I have had dealings with a big company not naming names oh go on then OTT 
there after sales service was c**p because I was not spending thousands they were not interested , and did not reply to e mails , they had a online offer spend over £150 and you got a free mini pole , I spent over £300 but had to phone them because my order was not straight forward , they said I would still get the pole . But 2 years later I still have not received it .
When I spoke to Mr Fogwell he could not do enough to help and I dont think he is Ltd Posted by sean_rimmer (Dom Matrix), 18 December 2003
STEVE
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing and the natural spawning of 1 man bands who are the "nouveau water treatment specialists" is peculiar to our industry. They know a little bit, tell everyone its all a rip off and buy off me, because I'm a window cleaner and I've designed my equipment with window cleaners in mind.! Thats a bit like an astronaut designing a rocket, yes the rocket may well have a cd player, a bar fridge, zero gravity pool table, but will it get me to the moon..? Safety is not an issue addressed by any of the "One Man Bands" and when you need service, for instance a pole, machine spare etc. next day and you ring your man up for it pronto, if they are out cleaning windows, you are up *hit creek. The point is, the limited companies do it for a living and stock what you need, so you've got a fighting chance of keeping on the road. If the limited companies let you down, simple, dont let them
DOM Posted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 18 December 2003
Hi Dom,
I understand your comments on the safety issue and i was certainly not knocking the larger company's but all those larger company's started off small at one time and to say the smaller ones are cowboys because they are not limited is just a silly comment. Thats like a vat registered window cleaning company saying that any others that are not vat registered are cowboys
StevePosted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 18 December 2003
Hi Dom,
I was wondering do you work for Brodex and if not and you are a window cleaner are you Limited If not your customers might like to know that they are having their windows cleaned by a cowboy 
StevePosted by sean_rimmer (Dom Matrix), 18 December 2003
STEVE.
Erm... yes, I do work for BRODEX, apparently somebody thinks I am launching a massive covert marketing operation on this website and is alerting users to the impending peril....! (See Reuben Ren-OTT comments)
Nothing so exciting I'm afraid, whilst I see a few other OTT plants on the site eg. PURE 20 etc. my intention is to field questions on the economics and technical issues surrounding the pole industry in a transparent way on behalf of BRODEX Ltd, the only true water treatment company in the marketplace-we've a lot more experience in industrial water treatment (and you must fully understand what this means) than the rest of the marketplace put together..! So if you want to know about the chemical economics of pole systems, ask a real industrial chemist, like myself or Sean Burke, MD of BRODEX Ltd, OCS do...!
Sean Rimmer BSc (Sales manager)BRODEX Ltd
aka Dom Matrix (dont go there..!)Posted by g_griffin (g_griffin), 18 December 2003
Rockets? Astronauts? Zero gravity pool tables?
What planet are you on?
Gerry.Posted by Neil (wylie), 18 December 2003
Slag off the competition and call them all cowboys then say buy from ME!!!
Mmm thats professional
Posted by jonesy5 (jonesy5), 18 December 2003
Sorry Dom (BRODEX) but i have read a few of your threads and i think you are trying hard to put the competion down i am dealing with ionic, yes they are expensive but the company has done well with marketing, research and safety. Their sales techinques are good and i am buying a flash machine with help from the taxman, all of us pay tax so i recomend if you are after a machine go with ionic on lease to buy and let the tax man do you a big favour.
Try yellow pages Dom you lost customers on this sitePosted by pure_genius (pure_genius), 18 December 2003
The guy from brodex has not got anything positive to say except slag of other systems. He says he is a chemist he was not sure wether he was a window cleaner or was working for brodex, i dont know about chemistry i would say he was intoxicated.
Maybe to much christmas spirit hey Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 18 December 2003
Dom
I dont think that you have done yourself any favours,
Posted by karlosdaze (karlosdaze), 18 December 2003
on 12/18/03 at 14:04:38, Dom Matrix wrote:STEVE.
Sean Burke, MD of BRODEX Ltd,
Sean Rimmer BSc (Sales manager)BRODEX Ltd
aka Dom Matrix (dont go there..!)
Do you have a web site?Posted by BeeClean (BeeClean), 18 December 2003
Hey dom do brodex supply to cowboys (people like me that aren't limited )Posted by pw (paul w), 18 December 2003
dom aka billy the kid..............sorry billy the kid L.T.D.Posted by peterf (peterf), 23 December 2003
on 12/18/03 at 10:00:29, Dom Matrix wrote:STEVE
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing and the natural spawning of 1 man bands who are the "nouveau water treatment specialists" is peculiar to our industry. They know a little bit, tell everyone its all a rip off and buy off me, because I'm a window cleaner and I've designed my equipment with window cleaners in mind.! Thats a bit like an astronaut designing a rocket, yes the rocket may well have a cd player, a bar fridge, zero gravity pool table, but will it get me to the moon..? Safety is not an issue addressed by any of the "One Man Bands" and when you need service, for instance a pole, machine spare etc. next day and you ring your man up for it pronto, if they are out cleaning windows, you are up *hit creek. The point is, the limited companies do it for a living and stock what you need, so you've got a fighting chance of keeping on the road. If the limited companies let you down, simple, dont let them
DOM
I have quite a lot to say on the above issues, I am at the moment a 1-man business
Firstly your comment " They know a little bit, tell everyone its all a rip off and buy off me, because I'm a window cleaner and I've designed my equipment with window cleaners in mind "
No this is not the way I do business, what I tell people who ask why there is such a difference in the price of a specific item is the fact that the bigger companies have more overheads. This is the main factor on the price differences.
I would say though that a window cleaner has more chance of getting a window clean with pure water than a real industrial chemist has, with the same pure water.
Secondly you said " Thats a bit like an astronaut designing a rocket, yes the rocket may well have a cd player, a bar fridge, zero gravity pool table, but will it get me to the moon..? Safety is not an issue addressed by any of the "One Man Bands" and when you need service, for instance a pole, machine spare etc. next day and you ring your man up for it pronto, if they are out cleaning windows, you are up *hit creek "
I don't clean windows, and even if I did I have a mobile phone. Do you run to the courier office immediately after getting an order for a spare part? I don't think so, I don't, my next day courier service takes parcels in until 5 o'clock and still guarantees next day delivery.
On safety, what certification do you have to say your system is any safer than mines is?
And lastly you said " The point is, the limited companies do it for a living and stock what you need, so you've got a fighting chance of keeping on the road. If the limited companies let you down, simple, dont let them”
I didn't realise you had to be a limited company to have stock, I hope my suppliers don't find out I am not limited or they won't supply me with anything else. I better nip out right away and get limited.
Peter FogwillPosted by sean_rimmer (Dom Matrix aka BRODEX), 23 December 2003
Peter F
It is not my intention to insult your integrity or capabilities as a one man company, merely highlight the benefits of using companies who provide cover 52 weeks per year, for example, most people take 4-5 weeks holiday (though i hear the self employed scream "I Wish") and during periods when the 1 man operator is remote & possibly & hopefully sitting in the sun somewhere with a cold beer, who sorts the client & courier? I'm sure you will agree this is a valid point and wish you a happy hogmany.regards SeanRPosted by karlosdaze (karlosdaze), 23 December 2003
on 12/18/03 at 14:04:38, Dom Matrix wrote:STEVE.
So if you want to know about the chemical economics of pole systems, ask a real industrial chemist, like myself or Sean Burke, MD of BRODEX Ltd, OCS do...!
Sean Rimmer BSc (Sales manager)BRODEX Ltd
aka Dom Matrix (dont go there..!)
Please tell me the "chemical economics" of a pole system.
I repeat, do you have a web site?Posted by peterf (peterf), 23 December 2003
Well Sean if it was not your intention you do a good job of doing what you intend not to do.
I won't deny emergencies never come up, but the country if full of one-man businesses that run very successful businesses, and they have holidays. The country is also full of large limited companies that say Mr Whoever is away on holiday and you will have to wait until he returns.
I would also like to add, that should a customer have a problem with any of my equipment during their 12 month guarantee period, it is replace next day delivered to their address without even me seeing the faulty equipment first, they just send it on later. How many limited companies do that?
Seasons greetings to you as well,
Peter FogwillPosted by sean_rimmer (Dom Matrix aka BRODEX), 23 December 2003
Peter F
Most one man companies generally dont operate on a national basis and with respect you did not address what happens to client requests on your holidays. However, I think your offer of no quibble, next day replacement of any item, without return of defective goods, is admirable by any industry standards (apart from holidays) and I wish you every success for the future.
I cant discuss crash testing with you or anybody else on this forum. Posted by peterf (peterf), 23 December 2003
on 12/23/03 at 18:57:58, Dom Matrix aka BRODEX wrote:Peter F
Most one man companies generally dont operate on a national basis and with respect you did not address what happens to client requests on your holidays. However, I think your offer of no quibble, next day replacement of any item, without return of defective goods, is admirable by any industry standards (apart from holidays) and I wish you every success for the future.
I cant discuss crash testing with you or anybody else on this forum.
I never had any client requests while on holiday that couldn’t wait until I got back, and nothing went wrong with anyone’s system. I did have my mobile with me for anyone who may have had an emergency, but no one did. I did get a couple of request from customers who wanted to buy equipment, but I explained I was on holiday and I would post it when I got back. No one seemed to mind, and I never lost any orders through it. They probably got it quicker than a limited company could have gave them it, even having to wait until I got back from holiday.
I never asked you to discuss crash testing, I never even mentioned it. What I did say and you never answered is, what certification do you have to say your system is safer than mine? In other words how do you know it is? Surely not just because you are a limited company?
Even if you had carried out crash testing, unless you tested my system you would still not know if it were safer. Only OTT can say for sure one system that may not be safe, that is the one they tested along with theirs.
Peter FogwillPosted by Neil (wylie), 23 December 2003
Well-said Peter
Indecently did Brodex spring up from nowhere as a Ltd company or did it start out like so many other Ltd companies as a small enterprise being run by someone with a love of their job
Personally I would rather deal with an individual like Peter than Be put on HOLD and listen to MUZAK for ten minutes and then end up speaking to a totally different person than last time who doesnt know me from Adam!!!
And so what if someone wants to have a holiday? At least then I know he is a real person in the Real world not a Boffin with his head in a book.Posted by sean_rimmer (Dom Matrix aka BRODEX), 23 December 2003
Peter F
As mentioned before, I cant discuss crash testing with you or anyone else on this forum.
Posted by sean_rimmer (Dom Matrix aka BRODEX), 23 December 2003
WYLIE
I served my time wearing overalls, steel boots and a hard hat & Visor, working with hazardous chemicals, in all weathers, out doors, plant rooms etc. Thats what industrial water treatment engineers do; boffins for sci-fi fans only. Hope this clears up the misconception.Posted by Neil (wylie), 23 December 2003
Dom Matrix aka BRODEX
Sorry that wasnt meant to be a personal dig but more of a generalizationPosted by karlosdaze (karlosdaze), 23 December 2003
I'm sorry Dom, I don't understand how you can't answer the straight questions put forward to you, and you seem to answer questions no one has asked! 
For instance:-"Chemical economics", lovely sounding word. Do you mean budgeting on an everyday basis for filter media?
boffins for sci-fi fans only
What does this mean?
Personally I can't see what the big deal about being an industrial chemist is? I was a chemical technician for I.C.I. and a controller for Essex & Suffolk water. I still learn't more about the systems from Peter in relation to Pole operation. Its the guy who uses the system and makes it for the worker, more than, I can tell you all the different elements in a drop of water. Lets face it, once you have your filter hard/soft system in place & you can change the filters, your about done with the water specification side. All other information or irregularities on the water side to do with water process in the pole cleaning industry are pretty standard. I feel you are trying to "sell" your self/system on the water process part more than the operation part. Thanks for sending the web link by the way.
I can also back-up Peters phone number while on holiday statement, as he gave me the number before he went. I can also recommend all first time users to his system and follow up service, be it information or customer follow up-second to none. Can I also add that Peters system can be expanded with minimum outlay.
Thats my 2 penneth worth, I'm off to Valencia for my seasonal rest, catch up in the new year.
Merry Xmas & Happy new year to all.Posted by Bones (Bones), 23 December 2003
Anybody remember the Domestos advert
Dom - D - Dom - Dom - DOM!!!
MikeyPosted by Majestic (Majestic), 23 December 2003
Or the death march
dom ,dom ,dom dom, Posted by sean_rimmer (Dom Matrix aka BRODEX), 23 December 2003
Karlosdaze
If 1 size fitted all, we would'nt be in business. I talk to 100's of window cleaners every month, who trust our advice and rely on our service, from sole operators T/O £40k per annum, right up to OCS T/O £500m per annum and everything inbetween. Hope I dont need to translate that, enjoy Spain, Adios amigo.
Bones/Majestic.
Glad you remember my name, my cunning marketing strategy is slowly but surely working...??Posted by Bones (Bones), 23 December 2003
Hello Dom,
All i know about Dom - D - Dom - Dom - Dom,...Domestos is you throw it down the Lav 
MikeyPosted by sean_rimmer (Dom Matrix aka BRODEX), 23 December 2003
Bones
With an attitude like that, you could get a job in sales. We're looking for a salesman to cover the Wiltshire area, interested.? Posted by pdhanson (Silly Philly), 24 December 2003
Chappies,
This is all starting to get a little hostile, isnt it?
Fair enough to defend yourself if you get dissed, and healthy debate is good, but lets not make it personal shall we?
There's room in the market for companies of all descriptions, from huge LTD's to smaller, more personal operations.
The fact is, we need all of you, so lets not argue about whose best, thats a never ending argument!
You're probably all good for different reasons (otherwise you'd not be in business), and reading all your comments I've heard sound advice from you all.
SillyPosted by Neil (wylie), 24 December 2003
Thats a fair comment Silly
But unfortunately for some You NEVER get a second chance to make a first impression!
Dom may be a good Chemist/engineer but he is a c**p salesman (thats an observation not an insult)
Peter has always seemed professional and honest which for me is very important and far outweighs cost!
I know were my money WONT be going when I am in the market.
I only hope Doms boss does not read this forum coz if I were him I would be reviewing his contract in the New Year!! Posted by sean_rimmer (Dom Matrix aka BRODEX), 24 December 2003
Wylie
move on, happy xmas, your comments again too personel, keep it real, dom.
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