Window Cleaning Issues - Canvassing, pole systems, pricing, problems, etc.
Pure water systems - which is best?Posted by admin (Forum Admin), 16 June 2003
Have you recently invested in pure water cleaning technology? Let us know what you think by posting your comments HEREPosted by GP (GP), 2 July 2003
What exactly are purewater cleaning systems 
Posted by admin (Forum Admin), 3 July 2003
Pure water systems (like the Reach & Wash system for example) were originally developed for commercial window cleaners to overcome restrictive Health & Safety rules relating to ladders but they also allow windows to be cleaned much faster than with a squeegee because the windows are left to dry naturally.
Normal tap water contains many minerals and when used to clean windows it is these impurities that are left on the glass when the windows dry, causing a less than satisfactory finish unless the windows are squeegeed off. However, once de-mineralised, pure water left on glass dries clear.
De-mineralised water possesses a strong desire to return to an impure state, therefore when used for cleaning, pure water actively absorbs all chemicals and minerals it comes across, making it an environmentally friendly cleaning solution.
When applied using a waterfed pole, the cleaning technique is simple, safe and efficient, suitable for reaching previously innaccessible areas, cleaning windows, frames paintwork, conservatories, vehicles and much more.Posted by ajwindows (ajwindows), 24 July 2003
I've looked at the reach/wash system and they sell a system for £99 which they say is for residential windows. what difference does it make, surely windows are windowsPosted by Mike_Boxall (Mike_Boxall), 25 July 2003
Hello AJ
'Residential' actually refers to the type of use rather than the type of windows. Thats to say, it is designed for low volume water production that a user would need just to do their own home rather than a higher volume system a professional window cleaner would need if he is cleaning domestic or commercial windows all day long.
The larger systems can produce up to 1000 litres of water per day at very low cost rather than relying on a single filter system (as in the residential) which would prove expensive if used all day long.
MikePosted by gibbouk (gibbouk), 29 July 2003
hello all.
as someone who has took a year deciding before buying a water fed system. take a look at peter fogwell's. http://www.window-tools.com/
no frills system to suit your water quality in your area.
the reach and wash £99 system is just a deionising tank, this is no good if you live in a hard water area like me. with this you need a reverse osmosis water filter. Posted by Polepro (Polepro), 18 August 2003
I used the Reach & Wash system for 3 years and would never use ladders even if you paid me. Everywhere I look these days I see Reach & Wash systems being used, seems to me that makes it the most popular system!Posted by easycleanwindows (easycleanwindows), 25 August 2003
i use tucker uk pure water...amazing i have 700litre double hose with three high poles cleans anything apart from carsPosted by pure_genius (pure_genius), 29 August 2003
I just looked at brockburn web site on there truckmount section and all there is a picture of a little boy no products not impressed !!!
not really a serious contender surelly
Tucker poles and Reach & Wash i feel are the only real contenders, not a little Fred in the shed Posted by karlosdaze (karlosdaze), 16 September 2003
I bought Broxburn, I'm impressed.
http://www.window-tools.com/
try this link.
KarlPosted by The_Fed_Man (The_Fed_Man), 17 September 2003
It's horses for courses Gents, Large systems for large work, small systems for small or infrequent work. The small systems cost more per window in resin, the large ones use a system that makes the resin last longer and so be more cost effective in the long run.
You would need at least one full day a week's work to pay for a large system.Posted by gibbouk (gibbouk), 17 September 2003
my ro unit from broxburn is no different from the reach and wash one supplied sole resin units only work in soft water areas. Posted by The_Fed_Man (The_Fed_Man), 17 September 2003
How long can you work with Peter's unit before having to wait for more water?Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 17 September 2003
I dont know about Peters unit , I bought mine from
www.andwat.co.uk also you could try
www.cleantech.co.uk very helpfull
www.brodexbms.co.uk all were at the National Fed trade show this yearPosted by Terry_Burrows (Terry_Burrows), 18 September 2003
as fed man says! 
you are best to talk to as many people as you can who own there water systems,there are conflicting views as to what system is best! Posted by luap (luap), 19 September 2003
i am looking into using di water for rinsing cars and have found a guy that can produce di for sale as a bi product of what he uses it for. he has come up with a price of £70 per 1000ltrs i was wondering is you consider this expensive.
in the long run if i went into this i know that it would be cheaper to by a di or ro system..i was just after a bench mark on price.
thanks paul.Posted by Polepro (Polepro), 22 September 2003
You can easily use a 1,000ltrs of pure water from a Reach and Wash system every day. Including the lease cost of the van and system, a days work costs under £15!Posted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 22 September 2003
I am looking around for a new van and would like to buy one that is big enough for reach & wash but not to high should i need to get a ladder off of the roof. Any suggestions
Steve LowePosted by The_Fed_Man (The_Fed_Man), 22 September 2003
PolePro,
is that £300 per month, brand new Movano and 1000L commercial? Over 4 years? How much did you have to put down?Posted by The_Fed_Man (The_Fed_Man), 22 September 2003
Steve, unless you've got all day 2 men jobs, I suggest Mercedes Vito with 650L commercial. This will handle those also but you will have to draw water on site by lunchtime/early afternoon.Posted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 22 September 2003
Thanks the Fed Man. I think i will get in touch with ott and ask for some literature and maybe a demo
Steve LowePosted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 22 September 2003
Can you clean windows successfully if it is raining with a pole or does the rain inter fear with the pure water
Steve LowePosted by The_Fed_Man (The_Fed_Man), 22 September 2003
The main thing that stops you cleaning in the rain is customer attitude. No 2 is you don't like getting wet. We used to squeegee up to the point where you couldn't finish them properly. Rain doesn't harm windows in most cases, airborne dust and dirt make them dirty.
Waterfed poles there is no scrim detailing or cloth work so you can work in most weathers. Unless it's torrential we work, or if the windows are being visibly spoilt as we clean, as in the case of seafront windows.Posted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 22 September 2003
Sorry to sound a bit stupid 
but how long are the hoses as i have some jobs that you would not get the van that near
Steve LowePosted by The_Fed_Man (The_Fed_Man), 22 September 2003
We run 3 reels of 150 feet each on one pole, at a push we have used 4 x 150 feet, one pole. 2 poles using 300 feet is no problem, but if you had one pole at 50 feet high and another say 10 feet high using these lengths, it might be too much for the pump.
But in general no problem. If inaccessable you could use a trolley or backpack.Posted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 22 September 2003
Thanks Fed Man. 
I think the next stage is for me to get information from the different companys 
Steve LowePosted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 22 September 2003
Fed Man, Are your systems ott
Steve LowePosted by The_Fed_Man (The_Fed_Man), 22 September 2003
Yes, I have the 1000 litre Reach & Wash Commercial in a one and a half ton Transit. One ton vans will take 650 litre systems, one & a half ton vans take the 1000 litre systems, escort size vehicles take the 300 litre systems.Posted by STEVE71163 (Steve Lowe), 22 September 2003
Thanks Fed Man, I will start having a look around 
and compare the different systems and then go from their.
Thanks again
Steve LowePosted by Majestic (Majestic), 22 September 2003
Fed Man
How much of your work is done by polesPosted by The_Fed_Man (The_Fed_Man), 22 September 2003
Majestic,
Virtually all of it. Only on some older type, poor state of repair windows the system doesn't work so we squeegee as usual.
I've just had a look at your web page, which size Reach & Wash do you have and do you use it on Residential?Posted by karlosdaze (karlosdaze), 22 September 2003
Working in the rain shouldn't have any effect in theory. The idea of RO (Reverse Osmosis for hard water areas) and DI (De-Ionisation for soft water areas) water is that the water is pure when cleaning the windows. In theory the rain from the sky is pure and so in turn should not streak the windows. Where I live the wind whips up the sand from the Sahara and drops it on us. This is more difficult to clean with a water fed pole. In the UK airborne matter is what marks the water fed window.
For anyone who actually uses a water fed pole, please try this at home. Put your pure water in a glass and cover with alu kitchen paper. Remove after a day.
By the way, my tds in Mallorca runs as high as 1400!!!Posted by The_Fed_Man (The_Fed_Man), 22 September 2003
Karl,
Alu as in aluminium paper?Posted by sham33 (sham33), 22 September 2003
Would a cheap mobile system like the Cricket system from OTT be any good in a hard water area? The waters very hard down here.Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 22 September 2003
Fed Man
I have a 40ft OTT pole and a 18ft pole from Mr Fogewll
I use the 40ft for a school that I clean , and on a couple of other jobs , I use the 18ft for a couple of other jobs ,most of my work is terraced houses ,its quicker to use a ladder as most of the back alleys around here have lots of little dog droppings.I looked at the OTT system but I have not got the work to justify the amount it costs , I have to admit I do like using my pole it has made the jobs I use it on alot easier to clean.
How do you price your jobs I know that no 2 jobs are the same , I used to price on how long that it would take me to clean it , but now I price it on how long would it take me on a ladder then add some more for good look 
Posted by The_Fed_Man (The_Fed_Man), 22 September 2003
Majestic,
I price the same as ladderwork. Have you looked into the backpack system for those back alley jobs What system are you using, Peter F's trolley?Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 22 September 2003
Fed Man
I have heard about the backpack, Jeff Brimble has one butI have not seen one ,and would not know where to look for one
I use a 36 in mixed bed resin tank, a 136 ltr water tank , flowjet pump crude but it does the job. Posted by The_Fed_Man (The_Fed_Man), 22 September 2003
Well, everybody was using the Hozelock 20 litre one around £100 ish but I have seen others. I did see one in a Machine Mart catalogue the other day resonably priced but haven't looked at it in the flesh so to speak.Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 22 September 2003
Fed Man
Just had a look in Machine Mark but could only see a clarke 6litr one at £30.49 Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 22 September 2003
Fed Man
Had another look in Machine Mart(with my glasses on this time ) they do a 20ltr liquid sprayer back pack at £46.94 is that the same thing, with the pack on your back how do you get power to pump the water Posted by karlosdaze (karlosdaze), 22 September 2003
Yes, Kitchen aluminium paper, don't let the alu touch the water.Posted by The_Fed_Man (The_Fed_Man), 22 September 2003
You have to prime it with the lever on the side to keep the flow going, mainly for when you rinse. Yes, that's the one I saw, need to see it in person to decide if it's up to the job but i can't see why not.Posted by Majestic (Majestic), 22 September 2003
Fed Man
What height do you think that you could reach with it Posted by The_Fed_Man (The_Fed_Man), 22 September 2003
People mainly do residential with them but i would think them okay for 30 feet or so. Just mind you don't tip up when you're full!Posted by peterf (peterf), 26 September 2003
I have used a backpack, the 20L hozelock one. It has the hand pump on the side, and you can pump water successfully up to at least 40 feet, the only problem I found was the amount of water you got out the brush, even when working on lower windows. Although it done the job, you were hanging around a bit too long waiting to pump enough water to rinse the window properly.
It can be a bit awkward pumping and using the pole at the same time, and it can be a bit of a nuisance pouring water into it all the time, it is heavy on your back, but it does the job.
Anyone interested in trying it, you just cut the lance off and join the tubing supplied, to the tubing from your water fed pole, fill with pure water and away you go.
Peter FogwillPosted by james44 (james44), 22 October 2003
peter i am looking for a system (pole system) just to do residential work is i possible would it pay. how many houses could be done on say 50 ltrs of water.Posted by peterf (peterf), 23 October 2003
Yes you can do residential much faster with pure water, I have had reports though that it is not any quicker on rows of terraced council houses and the likes, mainly because of obstructions like fences washing lines etc. Also the type of customer living in these houses are mostly in during the day and expect their window to be left dry, and expect the window cleaner to have a ladder.
I personally cleaned lots of houses with pure water and never had these problems. All the work I did was on larger private houses. Most of my customers were out working during the day and never had a clue how I cleaned the window, and if they did they didn't care how they were cleaned as long as they were clean.
I did have the problems when I first started getting rid of the old soap from the frames etc. but my customers trusted me enough to believe that it would be better than a squeegee after a few clean.
You won't have any problems with commercial work, now a lot of companies expect the windows to be cleaned without ladders, and some of them request it due to health and safety issues.
To answer your question on will it pay? I have many reports from customers that they are picking up better well paid commercial and residential work just by having the system.
Your other question "how many houses can you clean with 50L of water" it depends on what type of windows, how many windows, how often they are cleaned, etc.
Two large 3 bedroom houses without conservatory's can be done with about 25L of water, so about 4 houses with 50L, I personally carried 200L of water and it lasted me about 4 hours. If you need more than that you go back and fill up again.
PeterPosted by james44 (james44), 24 October 2003
peter thanks for the reply, if i decide to just do pole work is there any where that will give a demo on the correct way to use the system, i do have a 200 ltr tank which i bought to do moble car washing but will now use it for windows instead. ps i live in scotland.Posted by peterf (peterf), 24 October 2003
James, where in Scotland are you?
You are welcome to come along to my workshop any time and see the systems; I can also give you a demonstration, and show you exactly what is involved.
I am just outside Edinburgh
PeterPosted by james44 (james44), 24 October 2003
peter i am living in ayrshire and would gladly like to come and see you about this system i am wondering when would be the best time to start up doing this, the sort of rates around my way are 3.50-4.00 for upper flat and 3.00.350 bottom but just walking around town and i can see lots of windows untouched 3 storey upwards private as well as commercial.Posted by karlosdaze (karlosdaze), 27 October 2003
Thanks Peter, I've just received the pipe! Just so everyone knows, I'm very impressed with Peters after sales service. Posted by peterf (peterf), 27 October 2003
Re: Pure water systems - which is best?
« Reply #49 on: Oct 24th, 2003, 10:59pm » Quote Modify
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<peter i am living in ayrshire and would gladly like to <come and see you about this system i am wondering <when would be the best time to start up doing this, <the sort of rates around my way are 3.50-4.00 for <upper flat and 3.00.350 bottom but just walking <around town and i can see lots of windows untouched <3 storey upwards private as well as commercial.
James, you are only about 1 hours drive from me, you can come anytime, just let me know.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.comPosted by peterf (peterf), 27 October 2003
on 10/27/03 at 20:15:53, karlosdaze wrote:Thanks Peter, I've just received the pipe! Just so everyone knows, I'm very impressed with Peters after sales service.
Thanks Karl, have you had time to see if it makes any difference?
Peter FogwillPosted by KC (KC), 2 November 2003
Are the systems worth investing in?
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