Carpet Cleaning Issues - Carpet construction, upholstery cleaning, stain removal, equipment, events, etc.
HOT WATER EXTRACTION OR DRY CLEANING?Posted by stevegunn (stevegunn), 8 October 2003
Which method of cleaning do most people use hwe or dry clean(Host,Envirodri)? Depending on the type of carpet personally i prefer the dry cleaning method as do most of my customers as most have had bad experiences in the past with hwe cleaners 
Posted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 8 October 2003
Steve,
Whilst there will be many who will argue with my oppinion, I consider the "Host"-type method to be suitable only for cosmetic cleaning - an alternative to bonnet buffing.
Whilst it is almost 'idiot-proof' in that it is hard to over-wet any carpet with damp, ground-up corn cobs, I would question the amount of soil removed and how much proteinous mater and detergent residue is left in the carpet.
Useing the correct HWE equipment and chemistry, a skilled opperator will not only remove more soil (and dust mites) from the carpet but also achieve near-comparable drying times.
As to the customer's pre-conceptions, brought about by previous experience of bad cleaning the answer is to put your name and reputation on the line - If you do not have the confidence to make a 'payment on satisfactory conclusion' deal how can the client have confidence in you?Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 9 October 2003
Well said John
The Dry compound cleaning and Dry-Foam systems do have a place within the industry and sometimes can be the only method that you are able to use on a particular substrate.
The customer who has had a bad experience at some time has, more than likely, used the services of one of the 'splash and dash' operators offering a half price deal 'whilst in the area'
Regards
DerekPosted by woodman (woodman), 9 October 2003
Have to agree with Derek and Dynafoam,
I have had and used Host many times in the past and like many others it ended up being tucked away in some dark corner until I got round to selling it.
Take a look at the Dry Fusion if your going down this route I was most impressed.
As Derek says it's the 'In your area for two weeks merchants' who have caused us a lot of hag,you as a professional will convince your potential customers you are not one of those. Posted by Ken_Wainwright (Ken_Wainwright), 9 October 2003
As a truly professional carpet cleaner, you will assess a carpet's cleaning needs on it's individual merits, and that of the location and environment too. For most, this will usually be HWE. But there will be occasions when a low moisture system will perform the best and also Dry Extraction has a valid place.
Whilst I broadly agree with John and others, my experiences of Dry Extraction have been that it performed better in the commercial environment rather than domestic, especially when used in the maintenance role rather than restoration. To clarify a point raised by John, these compounds are cellulosic or synthetic, not proteinous. Racine Industries have carried out extensive research into dust mites and other allergens, and their tests suggested an almost total decimation of the dust mite population. However, like John and others, from this aspect I would prefer to use HWE as, if you dont remove all the little blighters, you would probably scald and drown them 
Safe and happy cleaning
KenPosted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 9 October 2003
Ken,
I stand corrected - of course corn cobs, being plant material, are cellulostic 
I seem to have tripped over my own thoughts !!
I also agree that the dry-compound systems are usefull in a maintenance role, although I tend to use my Host machine mainly for the combined role of brushing in a light pre-spray whilst pile-lifting. for maintenace cleans on low-profile carpeting such as commercial carpet tiles i personaly prefer bonnet buffing.
John.Posted by mike_halliday (mike_halliday), 10 October 2003
I had the oppertunity to try out the Von Schrader dry foam machine a couple of weeks a go and found it to be a great machine, its a little bit slow but as a low moisture system I found it superior to bonnet cleaning.
I mentioned using it on another talk board and everyone said it was a old & ineffective method of cleaning but I'm still thinking of buying it.
Mike Posted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 10 October 2003
Mike
The Von Schrader system has been around for many years but as with all equipment it gets refined and performances improve.
Its easy, pretty safe and drying times are low. ideal for very large areas.
Many professional cleaners still use or have moved onto the Von Schrader low moisture upholstery machine ... although initial costs are high the equipment gives years of excellent service.
DerekPosted by stevegunn (Steve Gunn), 10 October 2003
on 10/10/03 at 08:06:43, Derek Bolton wrote:Mike
The Von Schrader system has been around for many years but as with all equipment it gets refined and performances improve.
Its easy, pretty safe and drying times are low. ideal for very large areas.
Many professional cleaners still use or have moved onto the Von Schrader low moisture upholstery machine ... although initial costs are high the equipment gives years of excellent service.
Derek
I beg to differ I purchased the Von Schrader two years ago and have found it to be unreliable and costly to repair.I have had to replace the carbon brushes four times and last week had to pay £252 to replace the armature in the rotating head now this is a machine that is not used daily.I know of three people who have had these machines and have encountered similar problems. 
When you consider my HWE machine is used daily it has cost me nothing in four years. 
Posted by mike_halliday (mike_halliday), 10 October 2003
steve are you talking about the VS1 upholstery machine or the lynx carpet cleaning machine?
The machine that I borowed was 10 years old and in that time had very little repairs needed. the company who was trying to sell it to me where so comfident in its reliablity that they even offered me a 6 mth full guarantee which is pretty good on a second hand machine.
mikePosted by stevegunn (Steve Gunn), 10 October 2003
on 10/10/03 at 10:58:51, mike_halliday wrote:steve are you talking about the VS1 upholstery machine or the lynx carpet cleaning machine?
The machine that I borowed was 10 years old and in that time had very little repairs needed. the company who was trying to sell it to me where so comfident in its reliablity that they even offered me a 6 mth full guarantee which is pretty good on a second hand machine.
mike
Esprit System for cleaning upholsteryPosted by Derek (Derek Bolton), 10 October 2003
Crikey...I have had a Von Schrader upholstery machine for years... it has caused me no bother at all.
Perhaps yours was a Friday afternoon manufactured piece of kit 
DerekPosted by mdl3leone (mdl3leone), 6 November 2003
With due respect, I beg to disagree with those who believe that systems such as EnviroDri and Host are or should be used for cosmetic cleaning.
Tests carried by Top carpet mills have proven that wet cleaning systems cause huge damages to the carpet fibers and companies such as Du Ponte state in their Warranty policy that if any cleaning agent over 6.5 PH or over 75 degrees is applied on their carpets, the warranty is void.
American carpet manufacturers are now stating that cleaning methods such as bonnet should be banned as they only spread the dirt as opposed to cleaning the surface and that contra rotating brushing machines should be used for carpet cleaning.
This leaves you with two choices of systems namelly EnviroDri and Host. .
If I had to choose between them I would choose EnviroDri, because of their track record in the Uk. There has been no claims agains EnviroDri which trades as CMS in the Uk. On the other hand, Host has had hundreds of claims, because their system has caused damages to consumer carpets.
I hope this has been beneficial to the readers of this forum.
Have a good day
MarcosPosted by Jim_Lynch (Jim_Lynch), 6 November 2003
What an absolute load of BOLLOCKS 
JimPosted by MB (Mark Betts), 6 November 2003
Marcos,
You dont work for Enviro-dri do u by any chance?? Posted by mdl3leone (mdl3leone), 6 November 2003
I use itPosted by Jim_Lynch (Jim_Lynch), 6 November 2003
Perhaps you could give us the details of the "Tests carried by top carpet mills" to substantiate your wild assertions.
Here's what Shaw says...
http://www.shawfloors.com/FloorCare/CarpetCare/CarpetOverallCleaning.asp
JimPosted by Ken_Wainwright (Ken Wainwright), 6 November 2003
G'day Jim.
I wouldn't agree with your choice of words, so would Spheroids do?
I would agree that that correctly executed Dry Extraction Cleaning has a valuable role/place in the market and can be successfully used on some heavily soiled carpets. A bit slow though. And as for"hundreds of claims" against Host, I doubt it. Just as with any cleaning system from any manufacturer, the system is usually fine, it's the operator/technician who cause the damage, not the kit.Posted by woodman (woodman), 6 November 2003
Oh dear
I don't know of any main stream carpet manufacturers of twist pile,woven backed,cut and loop etc etc who do NOT recommend hot water extraction and I carry out carpet inspections for manufacturers so I should know, shouldn't I ?
Go on I've left me self open there.
Having said that I went out on a job this week and a usualy reputable company has attempted to HWE a Sea Grass carpet in a lady's home after assuring her that 'it's fine just treat it the same as any other carpet'
She has a lovely 5cm border all the way round the rooms now of exposed floor boards.The cleaner/company has offered her £250 compensation as 'their Insurance does not cover shrinkage'.
The only winners out of this one I'm afraid will be the solicitors 
Posted by Nigel_W (Nigel_W), 6 November 2003
As a serial collector of carpet cleaning equipment I am the proud owner of enviro-dri, bonnet buffing and shampoo equipment, dry cleaning machines, portables and a truck mount. When I look at a job I can choose which of these systems to use to achieve the best result. I would not dream of wet cleaning a sisal nor of using enviro - dri to restore a soiled cut pile wool carpet. It strikes me that too many people buy into one system/method/manufacturer and blindly use it on all jobs.
NigelPosted by Dynafoam (Dynafoam), 6 November 2003
Nigel,
Well said Sir !!!
John.
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